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-   -   F10 M5 Oil Pump Fix (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649205)

cmhsam 10-01-2012 09:45 AM

F10 M5 Oil Pump Fix
 
Can a dealer post information related to this as it relates to updates? I took delivery of my M5 on 9/1 in Munich and its been sitting at the VPC pending fix of the oil pump. The service manager hasnt had any updates on what next steps are other than we are waiting for the oil pumps.

The lack of communication and service from BMW NA to resolve this issue is less than attractive for me to continue with BMW in the future. If I am being to difficult or my expectations are incorrect please let me know. I am paying on a car that I cannot drive/deliver and there is no end date in sight on resolution

chrischeung 10-01-2012 10:34 AM

In my experience, you will hear nothing, or next to nothing until it is basically fixed. The reason I think is that BMW doesn't want to set false expectations. Say the pumps were shipped out from Germany today, then you may expect a 1 week fix. But what if there was some logistics snafu? They sent the wrong part? Or some staff shortage at the VPC that delayed things?

I recommend that you have your CA keep following up on the status changes as the best remedy. If you feel there is any cause for reimbursement, best to take this up after you get your car. If you think that your case and its handling is the exception rather than the rule, then I recommend that you not get a BMW - I've had my cars in the shop numerous times, and it sometimes takes a week to get the smallest things diagnosed and correctly fixed (never had any money reimbursed). I'd doubt you would get much better results (on average) from Benz or Audi (not sure about Lexus). I don't know if I've ever seen playing the "I won't get another BMW in future" card do much practical good. BMW will usually let someone walk over treating them specially than anyone else. That's my experience from the boards.

In BMW's defense (some of that being excellent service from my dealer), they are apologetic and understanding, and do try and accomodate within their set parameters - like a loaner car. Anything out of those parameters is an unlikely exception.

cmhsam 10-01-2012 10:36 AM

Thank you for the feedback. It seems hard to think that BMW wouldn't communicate a resolution plan or timeline with the caveat that nothing is guaranteed. Not having answers from BMW or a clear path to resolution is not how I would want my flagship customers to perceive the brand

chrischeung 10-01-2012 10:45 AM

I thought that there was a clear path to resolution. Updated pumps are being shipped to the VPC? Cars will be fixed then shipped out - perhaps in the order they arrived. I may have misread though. And cars at dealerships will be fixed there?

The "flagship customer" thing is also a myth from my experience. You'll get treated the same if you got a 1 series to a 7 series. An M5 oil pump won't get changed before that of a 128i. BMW's consistent in customer service across the brand, which is a big appeal. The differences will be if you get a Mini or Rolls Royce - then treatment will be different. If anything, a fault in a 3 series will get fixed faster than those of an M5. Usuallly because the issue is more common, and the expertise to fix it across a wider arrange of techs. My Hybrid7 always has to wait for a certain set of techs to be able to fix it. The other thing to consider is that the M5 is new - so not every tech may be trained yet to fix them, or it may be a very select few.

cmhsam 10-01-2012 10:46 AM

There is no timeline associated with the fix. Just we will get back to you. Its been 1.5 weeks that we have been waiting. Their inability to provide a clear and concise process/workflow makes me question their desire to ensure the driving experience is as good as their customer experience.

chrischeung 10-01-2012 10:55 AM

Welcome to the world of large companies. Your issue is common. Think about those folks who had problems with their mortgages and tried to pin someone down to address their individual case. Large companies don't handle exceptions very well.

Getting what you are after may actually make the situation worse. To get a definitive answer, may involve taking those that are part of the solution out of their jobs, lengthening the fix time. I recommend asking BMW to making you whole after the fact as the best overall solution. But if others have insight and experiences, would love to find out.

cmhsam 10-01-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrischeung (Post 7106759)
Welcome to the world of large companies. Your issue is common. Think about those folks who had problems with their mortgages and tried to pin someone down to address their individual case. Large companies don't handle exceptions very well.

Getting what you are after may actually make the situation worse. To get a definitive answer, may involve taking those that are part of the solution out of their jobs, lengthening the fix time. I recommend asking BMW to making you whole after the fact as the best overall solution. But if others have insight and experiences, would love to find out.

I agree. I just want my car

dkreidel 10-01-2012 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmhsam (Post 7106868)
I agree. I just want my car

I don't believe taking an agressive position or becoming a thorn in BMW NA's side will get your car repaired any faster. As Chris points out, BMW is fair to a point and will expedite this to the best of their ability. I know; I have been a Tier 1 supplier to BMW AG and had first hand experience in how AG can apply pressure :D

It really is out of your control and you should try to not worry about how long the car is out of commission or how long since you've had an update. As the "victim" of numerous first year BMW SNAFU's I've learned to 1) expect issues and 2) know the car will be fixed.

I'm uncertain that M5 ownership would be considered a "flagship customer"; there are A LOT of $90-100K BMW's sold in the US.

dk

cmhsam 10-01-2012 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkreidel (Post 7107581)

It really is out of your control and you should try to not worry about how long the car is out of commission or how long since you've had an update. As the "victim" of numerous first year BMW SNAFU's I've learned to 1) expect issues and 2) know the car will be fixed.


dk

While I see your POV I have to respectfully disagree. I will worry about how long my car is out of commission. It is an asset that I am paying a significant amount of money to own and every day that goes by where I am unable to drive the car as a result of this recall is money that I am paying for an asset/service that I cannot use. Although I do agree with your comment about "expecting issues" I also have to stand firm as a consumer and expect that when issues arise that they will be treated properly. Not communicating with your customers when the majority of your 2013 M5/M6 fleet is grounded is not what I consider good business. I am not expecting them to have an immediate fix but at least communicate with your customers.

If I dont make my car payment on time I can guarantee that BMWFS will hold me accountable. Therefore I am asking for the same courtesy when its BMW thats got the issue.

Jon Shafer 10-01-2012 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmhsam (Post 7106628)
Can a dealer post information related to this as it relates to updates? I took delivery of my M5 on 9/1 in Munich and its been sitting at the VPC pending fix of the oil pump. The service manager hasnt had any updates on what next steps are other than we are waiting for the oil pumps.

The lack of communication and service from BMW NA to resolve this issue is less than attractive for me to continue with BMW in the future. If I am being to difficult or my expectations are incorrect please let me know. I am paying on a car that I cannot drive/deliver and there is no end date in sight on resolution

I'll be more than happy to contribute information I can glean from my own experiences, but I am wondering first what your dealer has told you? I generally don't like to meddle in other dealers' business... Since I sold 10 M5s and have my own concerned customers to take care of I do have a vested interest, but kindly post what you've already been told so I can either affirm or refute based on what I have been able to gather...

Also, where is you car right now at this very moment?

:dunno:

schnell525 10-01-2012 09:53 PM

Are the folks at BMW worrying about the lemon clock ticking away?

ard 10-02-2012 10:03 AM

1. Dont expect dealers to post a DAMN thing of any utility. Other than 'retail platitudes'...

2. "Flagship customer"??? Ha Ha. there are plenty flagship customers, if you get unhappy they'll jsut replace you. I am 100% serioius.'

3. BMW may not work faster, and being a thorn may not get your car faster, but it will CERTAINLY result in your getting compensated for your losses.

4. Once BMW has taken the cars 'out of service' the lemon clock begins. What is uncertain is the OPs specific situation where the car is being held in the EU prior to USA delievery. Customers with cars in the US that were told to "stop driving" will have slam-dunk lemon claims once the time limit is reached- and should press claims with BMWNA only offering to forfeit future lemon claims due to this one defect if BMW provides significant compensation. And not 'one months lease payment'

5. BMWNA and their dealer network is working diligently to calm the public and owners and put the very best spin on this that they can...you can be sure of that. Oh, and a few folks are trying to get parts out. Also remember that they will ge preference to production lines, as THIS is where the real (read corporate valuation) value lies. Not with 'flagship customers'

A

cmhsam 10-02-2012 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Shafer (Post 7107949)
I'll be more than happy to contribute information I can glean from my own experiences, but I am wondering first what your dealer has told you? I generally don't like to meddle in other dealers' business... Since I sold 10 M5s and have my own concerned customers to take care of I do have a vested interest, but kindly post what you've already been told so I can either affirm or refute based on what I have been able to gather...

Also, where is you car right now at this very moment?

:dunno:

Jon,

My CA and SA are excellent and tried to get as much as they can. Unfortunately they have been told nothing. My car is currently at the VPC in New Jersey pending release to the dealer upon resolution of this issue. I called the VPC today and was told that they wont get parts until mid October. The customers at the VPC are low priority for BMW. My dealer service team didnt even know that parts had already started being sent out for fixes. Any info would help.

Jon Shafer 10-02-2012 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmhsam (Post 7109663)
Jon,

My CA and SA are excellent and tried to get as much as they can. Unfortunately they have been told nothing. My car is currently at the VPC in New Jersey pending release to the dealer upon resolution of this issue. I called the VPC today and was told that they wont get parts until mid October. The customers at the VPC are low priority for BMW. My dealer service team didnt even know that parts had already started being sent out for fixes. Any info would help.

Tomorrow our BMW Factory Rep will be at the dealership, and I have plans to discuss this with him. I will report back with the results. I know that some forum members are claiming they've been told that the repairs will be made at VDC. I have seen or heard nothing to support that, and I have been keeping my eyes peeled... Standard Operating Procedure would be for dealer to repair and not VDC, so that is counter-intuitive...

cmhsam 10-02-2012 05:30 PM

Thanks. Looking forward to hearing what you have to report

Jon Shafer 10-04-2012 04:11 PM

Dealers will shortly begin receiving the replacement oil pumps, and vehicles will be repaired at BMW Centers (contrary to rumor in some BMW forums which said they would be done at the VDC).

Sold cars will receive top priority. Not much else to report. I have the part numbers, but that would be superfluous to post. Your factory-authorized BMW retailer will be able to take good care of you, and this whole Oil Pump debacle will be but a small footnote to the story of F10 M5 ten years from now.

:thumbup:

LongBeachBMW 10-06-2012 11:03 PM

One of my ordered M5's was delivered a few days before the recall issue. Car was brought in on the first day of the recall. Oil pump was received on friday, Oct 5, and customer picked up his car later in the day. Was in Service for 2 weeks. Customer was very happy to get his car back for the weekend.

Kar Don 10-06-2012 11:25 PM

oil pumps have arrived at my dealer... M5s and M6s were rollin out the door.

cmhsam 10-07-2012 04:24 PM

Thanks for all the info. My car had the pump changed at the VPC. I am supposed to take redelivery any day now. The transport left the NJ Port Saturday around noon. It's about a 12 hour drive from port to dealer. ,averaging 55mph. The BMW Dealer system shows my car ETA to dealer 10/8. What's the likelihood of that happening?

schnell525 10-12-2012 11:41 PM

I find it a bit odd that BMW comes across portrayed in this thread as take it or screw you....basically that's been said. I haven't seen this from BMW. The local dealer owner has a lot riding on his reputation. BMW corporate may try to hide and say "we'll just replace you." however some dealers expecially in smaller markets can really get burned by this attitude.

I've heard of BMW taking care of it's M5 owners with taking care of payments with 5 series as their loaners. The "Flagship" customers IMO, and I've seen this in action do get attention and they dealerships do make an attempt to help the customer. If someone wants to get arrogant, it only takes a couple letters from a lawyer to make things firm up a bit.

It's all in the realationship with the customer. I think most dealers keep this in mind. If you have a cusomter on average that buys or leases 1 or maybe even 2 cars a year is taken care of. Large markets that have 3+ BMW dealers might have a bit of a hubris complex, but in smaller towns it gets around how your service and sales are.

Small markets, such as areas with 150-200K populations or less, and extrapolate that to those that whom can afford BMWs--these are customers that are both loyal to the dealership on end, and the dealership is loyal to them. A dis-satisfied customer can have a large effect.

I do feel in some areas of the country that "Flagship" customers do have a standing. Run into a few people at the grocery store, and just a conversation starts up about cars--the information moves fast.

I've had pretty good luck with BMW compared to my other German cars. In my area, the closest Lexus dealership (yuck) is about 70 miles away. They'll pick up and drop-off your car with a loaner while it's being serviced. Maybe larger centers can say "meh" to customers, but if you do buy cars often, they do pay attention.

I have great service from sales, to service, to parts. I think these guys and gals (and a lot of BMW dealerships) do care about their customers and don't write them off as "too bad."

chrischeung 10-13-2012 05:45 AM

Your comments are correct, but sadly apply to almost any industry. The way companies react has been driven by the market and customer - not by the vendor. They can no longer afford to provide the service level often deemed desirable. Look at any large bank, department store, etc. - low margins have driven high touch service out the window. We may get technological solutions in the future, that allow personalization, but the personal high touch service of old has gone the way of the dodo in most large markets. Once a big player hits a small market, expect small players to get wiped out.

dalekressin 10-13-2012 06:10 AM

The good news is the OP's car and others will be fixed regardless of the percieved communication shortfalls. The other good news is that you have purchased a great luxury sport sedan.
Enjoy the ride, drop your worries and move forward.

quackbury 10-16-2012 07:30 PM

Wow. I wonder if "flagship customers" get their own personalized crying towel, hopefully personalized with the ///M logo and their own VIN.

I wonder how many more BMW's I need to buy before I qualify for the same treatment?

Sent from my HTC Inspire using BimmerApp

Jon Shafer 10-16-2012 10:28 PM

Repair strategy has switched to VDC install as of today officially. Purportedly, Buyers affected by this will be offered a day of M Driving School gratis.


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