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Bilstein 10-02-2012 10:26 AM

Post E46 options for driving enthusiasts
 
1 Attachment(s)
Some of the long timers on the board will recall conversations about the post E46 decline of BMW as a driver’s car (not as a luxury car) that one could actually take a wrench to maintenance wise.

Dan Neil does auto reviews for magazines and newspapers and I think was even on the ridiculous “Top Gear” produced in the US. I think he’s a little precious, but that’s just an opinion.

Anyway, I came across a review of the new Cadillac ATS in this weekend’s paper and thought I’d share it with you guys for two reasons: 1) Cadillac has BMW directly in their crosshairs and a number of us are/were realistically looking at the CTS V as an option instead of a post E46 BMW, and 2) for what he reveals about the current BMW 3 series and the company’s marketing strategy.

I put it in PDF format for ease in posting.

Bilstein

SPDSKTR 10-02-2012 11:07 AM

I heard differentials in the CTS-V are ticking time bombs. :eeps:

To continue this, I've looked into Porsche Cayman S, CTS-V, 370Z, a newer Mustang GT, and toyed with the idea of a 335i or a newer E46 ///M3. I love the BMW community and would love to stick with it, but it just doesn't seem quite as practical anymore.

Fast Bob 10-02-2012 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPDSKTR (Post 7108955)
I heard differentials in the CTS-V are ticking time bombs. :eeps:.

Not the end of the world, you can have a bulletproof diff built for maybe $2-3000....like yourself, I`ve been examining a number of other possibilities, but haven`t come to any clear-cut conclusions yet.
We may have to face the fact that the era of "user-friendly/DIY friendly" cars is coming to a close. They seem to be morphing into "rolling computers" more and more with each succeeding generation....owning an out-of-warranty car ten years from now will probably eat up a lot of dough....:mad: :thumbdwn:

SPDSKTR 10-02-2012 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Bob (Post 7109241)
Not the end of the world, you can have a bulletproof diff built for maybe $2-3000....like yourself, I`ve been examining a number of other possibilities, but haven`t come to any clear-cut conclusions yet.
We may have to face the fact that the era of "user-friendly/DIY friendly" cars is coming to a close. They seem to be morphing into "rolling computers" more and more with each succeeding generation....owning an out-of-warranty car ten years from now will probably eat up a lot of dough....:mad: :thumbdwn:

I refuse to buy an in-warranty Versa (since it will probably be the only thing I can afford). As smolck once said, "You must really have to hate yourself to drive a Versa."

Fast Bob 10-02-2012 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPDSKTR (Post 7109255)
I refuse to buy an in-warranty Versa (since it will probably be the only thing I can afford). As smolck once said, "You must really have to hate yourself to drive a Versa."

I`d rather bait a crocodile with my manhood than drive that piece of sh!t.... :D

SPDSKTR 10-02-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Bob (Post 7109272)
I`d rather bait a crocodile with my manhood than drive that piece of sh!t.... :D

:lmao:

You and me both.

Variocam 10-03-2012 10:26 AM

I'm glad to see Cadillac put forth the effort with the ATS; seems like a nice car. I seem to remember reading somewhere that it resembles an E46 in many ways. Just two comments - I know this sounds nit-picky, but a 10 cubic foot trunk? Really? I bet there are hybrid sedans out there with more luggage space than that. Really dings the usability factor of the car. And second, I'm surprised that after all the weight-reduction efforts that I've read Cadillac went through, they still ended up at a relatively porky 3400 pounds.

But other than that, it looks like Cadillac has a fun, competitive car on their hands.

Chris90 10-03-2012 11:47 AM

I like the ATS, but it doesn't sound significantly better than the F30 overall, and it's not cheaper, so I wouldn't buy one.

I've no plan to sell the ZHP, but here's what I'd buy if it gets totaled or something:

1. E90 335i M Sport (2010 or 2011) = safe bet, I'm sure I'd like it
2. 2014 Golf 5 door GTI = if it's as fun and communicative as the current one. If it loses steering feel and goes softer like the F30, then no.
3. ATS-V = it would probably have to have a V8, not gonna spend $50k+ on a V6

Cars I'd love to buy but not practical enough:
1. 2013 Mustang Boss 302
2. Cayman S/R (used in $40k range)
3. 997 Carrera S (used in $40k range)

We have a kid, and I need 4 doors and a daily driver, and don't have room in garage or driveway for a 3rd car.

jonathan2263 10-03-2012 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Bob (Post 7109272)
I`d rather bait a crocodile with my manhood than drive that piece of sh!t.... :D

I'd rather just drive the Versa.

SPDSKTR 10-03-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan2263 (Post 7111595)
I'd rather just drive the Versa.

I know a great psychiatrist...

Sent from the Bamavarian Nexus.

tturedraider 10-03-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilstein (Post 7108860)
Some of the long timers on the board will recall conversations about the post E46 decline of BMW as a driver's car (not as a luxury car) that one could actually take a wrench to maintenance wise.

Dan Neil does auto reviews for magazines and newspapers and I think was even on the ridiculous "Top Gear" produced in the US. I think he's a little precious, but that's just an opinion.

Anyway, I came across a review of the new Cadillac ATS in this weekend's paper and thought I'd share it with you guys for two reasons: 1) Cadillac has BMW directly in their crosshairs and a number of us are/were realistically looking at the CTS V as an option instead of a post E46 BMW, and 2) for what he reveals about the current BMW 3 series and the company's marketing strategy.

I put it in PDF format for ease in posting.

Bilstein

Quote:

Originally Posted by Variocam (Post 7111104)
I'm glad to see Cadillac put forth the effort with the ATS; seems like a nice car. I seem to remember reading somewhere that it resembles an E46 in many ways. Just two comments - I know this sounds nit-picky, but a 10 cubic foot trunk? Really? I bet there are hybrid sedans out there with more luggage space than that. Really dings the usability factor of the car. And second, I'm surprised that after all the weight-reduction efforts that I've read Cadillac went through, they still ended up at a relatively porky 3400 pounds.

But other than that, it looks like Cadillac has a fun, competitive car on their hands.

I've driven the 3.6 ATS. Don't believe everything you read. Especially not about its steering. It is not one whit better than BMW's. In my opinion it is worse. At low speed you can turn the wheel with your pinkie. That is not an exaggeration. One word describes the 3.6 V6, coarse. And it lacks low end torque. 54 fewer lb-ft of torque than it has horsepower and max torque isn't there until 4,900 rpms. And no manual with the 3.6. Only the automatic. A bad combination. If I've learned nothing else about modern horsepower claims it is that HP without accompanying TQ is worthless.

It feels/is tighter inside than an E46. It is a Cadillac inside. There is NOTHING Teutonic about it. Oh, it does have a Bangle-butt trunk.

It seems to me now having seen and driven the car (at a Cadillac driving event) there is a lot of media bias going on in these reviews. Of course you guys put me in the BMW gone soft crowd 'cause I moved from a ZHP to an E90. Let me tell you I was very happy to get back in my E90 330i after driving the ATS. I would without one second of hesitancy buy an F30 (I've driven a non-sport 328i and a Sport line 335i) over an ATS. I would not spend my money on an ATS.

Chris90 10-03-2012 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider (Post 7111604)
I've driven the 3.6 ATS. Don't believe everything you read. Especially not about its steering. It is not one whit better than BMW's. In my opinion it is worse. At low speed you can turn the wheel with your pinkie. That is not an exaggeration. One word describes the 3.6 V6, coarse. And it lacks low end torque. 54 fewer lb-ft of torque than it has horsepower and max torque isn't there until 4,900 rpms. And no manual with the 3.6. Only the automatic. A bad combination. If I've learned nothing else about modern horsepower claims it is that HP without accompanying TQ is worthless.

It feels/is tighter inside than an E46. It is a Cadillac inside. There is NOTHING Teutonic about it. Oh, it does have a Bangle-butt trunk.

It seems to me now having seen and driven the car (at a Cadillac driving event) there is a lot of media bias going on in these reviews. Of course you guys put me in the BMW gone soft crowd 'cause I moved from a ZHP to an E90. Let me tell you I was very happy to get back in my E90 330i after driving the ATS. I would without one second of hesitancy buy an F30 (I've driven a non-sport 328i and a Sport line 335i) over an ATS. I would not spend my money on an ATS.

Do you know which model you drove, I think there's Premium, Performance etc.

I think a lot of the ATS's problems could be solved by a V8 ATS-V. Lots of torque, good sound, more aggressive look, more sporty steering etc.

Throwing a turbo on the V6 isn't going to improve the sound, that's for sure.

tturedraider 10-03-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90 (Post 7111632)
Do you know which model you drove, I think there's Premium, Performance etc.

I think a lot of the ATS's problems could be solved by a V8 ATS-V. Lots of torque, good sound, more aggressive look, more sporty steering etc.

Throwing a turbo on the V6 isn't going to improve the sound, that's for sure.

The model I drove had the FE2 suspension, which does not have the magnetic suspension. You know the 3.6 is naturally aspirated, right?

The V will be a totally different car. It will be an ///M3 competitor.

The event was for the CTS-V. It is a great car. Virtually nothing like a regular CTS. A 551 HP supercharged 6.3 liter V8. How could a supercharged motor that big not make 550 hp? The new ///M5 makes 560 hp with a turbo'd 4.4 liter V8. To me that's a more impressive feat of engineering.

Bilstein 10-03-2012 03:14 PM

tturedraider, I just put this out there as a public service, and because it's fun to think about other options. Your response seems biased to me, but literally I couldn't give less of a sh1t what you drive, and I don't mean that in a bad way, just an honest way. You seem geared toward BMW for reasons other than actual performance, maybe status or luxury, which isn't "bad", just not focused solely on performance.

Good luck bro, with whatever you decide on.

tturedraider 10-03-2012 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilstein (Post 7111795)
tturedraider, I just put this out there as a public service, and because it's fun to think about other options. Your response seems biased to me, but literally I couldn't give less of a sh1t what you drive, and I don't mean that in a bad way, just an honest way. You seem geared toward BMW for reasons other than actual performance, maybe status or luxury, which isn't "bad", just not focused solely on performance.

Good luck bro, with whatever you decide on.

And I posted to give a real world, real person, real experience perspective. I drive BMW for the driving dynamics. And I'm not deciding on anything. I'll be in my 330i for a long, long time. I love my naturally aspirated inline six.

smolck 10-03-2012 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPDSKTR (Post 7108955)
I heard differentials in the CTS-V are ticking time bombs. :eeps:

Start watching at 5:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnZVkdzXzFQ

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider (Post 7111914)
I'll be in my 330i for a long, long time. I love my naturally aspirated inline six.

Me too, but only because I can't afford anything else. When my 19 year old went to college, my dream of an M3 died.

av98 10-03-2012 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan2263 (Post 7111595)
I'd rather just drive the Versa.

Currently in a rental Nissan Versa, it's very practical for a daily driver; lots of room inside for such a small car outside. The engine does suck, highly anemic 4 banger for accelerating and requires winding up quite a bit to get anything out of it. Driving dynamics is pretty descent for an econobox. Definitely better road feel and body roll compared to a Corolla.

Fast Bob 10-03-2012 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan2263 (Post 7111595)
I'd rather just drive the Versa.

I heard you traded your manhood for a Campy 9-speed titanium freewheel.... :rofl:

Chris90 10-03-2012 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider (Post 7111914)
And I posted to give a real world, real person, real experience perspective. I drive BMW for the driving dynamics. And I'm not deciding on anything. I'll be in my 330i for a long, long time. I love my naturally aspirated inline six.

I think it's a shame that motor disappeared so quickly - I'm sure the 3.0L turbo is great, but I wish the 265 hp 3.0L had hung around longer.

tturedraider 10-03-2012 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90 (Post 7112029)
I think it's a shame that motor disappeared so quickly - I'm sure the 3.0L turbo is great, but I wish the 265 hp 3.0L had hung around longer.

Me, too.

FredoinSF 10-03-2012 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90 (Post 7112029)
I think it's a shame that motor disappeared so quickly - I'm sure the 3.0L turbo is great, but I wish the 265 hp 3.0L had hung around longer.

Agreed, I loved it in my 06 330i sedan... Don't know why I sold that car. :cry::cry:

The motor was around longer in the X3 adn X5 and it lived on in Europe in the 3.

SPDSKTR 10-04-2012 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smolck (Post 7111970)

"When I drove it, it didn't explode!" :eek:

jonathan2263 10-04-2012 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fast Bob (Post 7111979)
I heard you traded your manhood for a Campy 9-speed titanium freewheel.... :rofl:

No, I'm still using it so a 9 speed Ti cassette just isn't a good trade. Now if you're offering an entire Super Record EPS Grouppo, then maybe...

TechieTechie 10-04-2012 09:35 AM

I am seriously thinking that my next car will be a 2014 (or later) Golf TDI. Great gas mileage, fun to drive, just the right size for a single gal. And it will fit my Shimano Ultegra just fine. :thumbup: Either that or a 2006 e46 :rofl:

Fast Bob 10-04-2012 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechieTechie (Post 7113317)
I am seriously thinking that my next car will be a 2014 (or later) Golf TDI. Great gas mileage, fun to drive, just the right size for a single gal. And it will fit my Shimano Ultegra just fine. :thumbup: Either that or a 2006 e46 :rofl:

If VW could manage to tighten up their QC a bit, they could be a serious player. They need a sporting RWD model in the lineup as well....


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