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-   -   Inside Line "trashes" M5 (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649850)

highyo 10-04-2012 11:02 AM

Inside Line "trashes" M5
 
basic premise is it's awesome and speedy but boring and isolated.. have we heard that before?

i have never for an M car

"But it basically comes down to this: Somehow the white coats in Munich made the 2013 BMW M5 more powerful and quicker and they've given it more grip, but they forgot something the emotion. Where's the excitement? Where's the visceral thrill? Where's the M5's sinister evil twin?

Oh, that's right, it's down the street at the Cadillac dealer. It's called the CTS-V."

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m5/201...and-video.html

solstice 10-04-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highyo (Post 7113394)
basic premise is it's awesome and speedy but boring and isolated.. have we heard that before?

i have never for an M car

"But it basically comes down to this: Somehow the white coats in Munich made the 2013 BMW M5 more powerful and quicker and they've given it more grip, but they forgot something the emotion. Where's the excitement? Where's the visceral thrill? Where's the M5's sinister evil twin?

Oh, that's right, it's down the street at the Cadillac dealer. It's called the CTS-V."

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m5/201...and-video.html

It's disappointing to say the least. When they now made every normal 5-series into a luxury power cruiser with no available factory options to really tighten it up you would hope that the M5 would be built for the purists but no, doesn't seem like that is the case. Just more of the same it seems.

highyo 10-04-2012 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solstice (Post 7113431)
It's disappointing to say the least. When they now made every normal 5-series into a luxury power cruiser with no available factory options to really tighten it up you would hope that the M5 would be built for the purists but no, doesn't seem like that is the case. Just more of the same it seems.

no purpose built M-car engines anymore either. that's sad

AutoUnion 10-04-2012 11:32 AM

That's a very depressing quote from the article. I can agree that the CTS-V is a good car, but it's too gaudy and the interior is not up to par with even a F30

highyo 10-04-2012 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 7113463)
That's a very depressing quote from the article. I can agree that the CTS-V is a good car, but it's too gaudy and the interior is not up to par with even a F30

but what you said sums it up nicely. up until very recently, this is what you would hear about BMWs, pedestrian interiors, but oh the driving dynamics. now an M-Car (an M-Car!!) is losing out on verve and pep to a Cadillac? is this bizarro world?

the next thing i'm going to hear is that the ferrari beats the porsche on reliability!

solstice 10-04-2012 11:41 AM

I'm not surprised though. Disappointed yes but not surprised, it is pretty much what I expected. Something is not right in Munich these days.
highyo, I think you'll be very happy with your timing to get into a real M car. I'm not optimistic about the upcoming M3. We'll see though, it could be that messing with the M3s virtues is something too sacred even in the name of higher predicted sales and profit for an isolated techno softy.

Stealth8 10-04-2012 01:42 PM

I would have purchased the Cadillac CTS V Coupe but it was too triangular and lacked any semblance of utility. The Sedan just does not have the lines--too boring.

+1 on the Factory isolation of the F10. I love my car now but I changed wheels (HRE 20s), springs (ACS) and tuning (Dinan S2). I would have definitely preferred OEM all the way. With the weight and size of the M5, it is just an unlikely "sportscar." I have a Viper for that. It will be interesting to see what BMW takes away from the feedback it receives.

leewtech 10-04-2012 02:19 PM

The entire line is getting soft...for lack of a better word. Still love them, but that point and shoot feel is fading in just about all the models. My base 128i keeps the spirit alive with minimal electronic gizmos and good old direct hydraulic steering. But the wife's X3's electric steering just isn't the same. The sport programs help, but that is mostly software working the experience.

Still.....rather be in any BMW than anything else out there at the moment..

Stealth8 10-04-2012 02:33 PM

Again, love my F10, but had to modify it to get it "dialed in." Not to hijack th thread, but I have a new X3 Loaner now while my car is at the dealer and I must say that I am not impressed. For $30k it is a good car but I suspect it is closer to $45k+. For more than $30k, I would look to Toyota, Honda and Lexus (still Toyota) or maybe an Audi Q5 for this class of car. The X3 is spartan inside with bad seats and drives nothing like my previous X5 V8s. On the plus side, it does have more room than before.

Needsdecaf 10-04-2012 02:42 PM

I drove a CTS-V. IMO, the only thing it has going for it is that it's fast. That's it.

Steering? Heavy, no communication.
Handling? Loose.
Ride? Harsh.
Brakes - well, these are good too.
Interior - low rent
Seats - Great for 10 minutes, forget about it after.

It's a hot rod. It's not what the M5 is meant to be.

Needsdecaf 10-04-2012 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth8 (Post 7113890)
Again, love my F10, but had to modify it to get it "dialed in." Not to hijack th thread, but I have a new X3 Loaner now while my car is at the dealer and I must say that I am not impressed. For $30k it is a good car but I suspect it is closer to $45k+. For more than $30k, I would look to Toyota, Honda and Lexus (still Toyota) or maybe an Audi Q5 for this class of car. The X3 is spartan inside with bad seats and drives nothing like my previous X5 V8s. On the plus side, it does have more room than before.

If you think you're getting into a Q5 for $30k, keep dreaming.

highyo 10-04-2012 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solstice (Post 7113488)
I'm not surprised though. Disappointed yes but not surprised, it is pretty much what I expected. Something is not right in Munich these days.
highyo, I think you'll be very happy with your timing to get into a real M car. I'm not optimistic about the upcoming M3. We'll see though, it could be that messing with the M3s virtues is something too sacred even in the name of higher predicted sales and profit for an isolated techno softy.

some part of me believes that they won't mess up the new m3, especially because they are trying to bring down weight to e46 standards (think its like -300 pounds on base model?) but who knows. one thing is for sure, the sound and feel of that bespoke engine is gone forever.

and that is very very sad

Stealth.Pilot 10-04-2012 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highyo (Post 7113394)
basic premise is it's awesome and speedy but boring and isolated.. have we heard that before?

i have never for an M car

"But it basically comes down to this: Somehow the white coats in Munich made the 2013 BMW M5 more powerful and quicker and they've given it more grip, but they forgot something - the emotion. Where's the excitement? Where's the visceral thrill? Where's the M5's sinister evil twin?

Oh, that's right, it's down the street at the Cadillac dealer. It's called the CTS-V."

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/m5/201...and-video.html

Ridiculous review. What's even more ridiculous is that all of you assume its true, having never even driven the car.

I mean what makes this guy a more credible reviewer than Richard Hammond or Chris Harris?

Capobranco 10-04-2012 02:52 PM

I have a slightly different take...

Instead of bemoaning what the M5 is not, I prefer to celebrate it for what it is - an ultimate expression of a gentleman's rapid express - a sporty large four door GT, capable of great velocity, offering a luxury environment. Moreover, being a BMW, the M5 is still a value play - a lot of content for a not an unreasonable sum.

Cars are changing - look at the 991 v. 997 - more capable but less visceral la BMW M5. Slightly homogenized, less edgy, more luxury, enhanced efficiency and tech, is the new normal. I suspect we need to accommodate ourselves to this brave new reality. In a world increasingly dominated by a "green" vehicle psyche, and given the development costs of any new car, I toast BMW for having the courage to produce the M5.

highyo 10-04-2012 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot (Post 7113924)
Ridiculous review. What's even more ridiculous is that all of you assume its true, having never even driven the car.

I mean what makes this guy a more credible reviewer than Richard Hammond or Chris Harris?

a review is a review dude. nothing against your rig. but i don't recall ever reading any of this about the e60, e39, e92. and also note that "trashes" is in quotations, because they had some very nice things to say about it.

highyo 10-04-2012 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capobranco (Post 7113941)
I have a slightly different take...

Instead of bemoaning what the M5 is not, I prefer to celebrate it for what it is - an ultimate expression of a gentleman's rapid express - a sporty large four door GT, capable of great velocity, offering a luxury environment. Moreover, being a BMW, the M5 is still a value play - a lot of content for a not an unreasonable sum.

Cars are changing - look at the 991 v. 997 - more capable but less visceral la BMW M5. Slightly homogenized, less edgy, more luxury, enhanced efficiency and tech, is the new normal. I suspect we need to accommodate ourselves to this brave new reality. In a world increasingly dominated by a "green" vehicle psyche, and given the development costs of any new car, I toast BMW for having the courage to produce the M5.

see this is where i disagree. i dont think that the M5 is the sporty large four door GT that you claim it to be. BMW invented this class of car. it used to be a 4 door sports car. you can argue that as cars get bigger/heavier/more luxurious, some of the inherrent sportiness falls away. i get that. but this is their wheelhouse. they INVENTED this niche. and now they are getting pushed out of the limelight by the Cadillac?

oh the irony

Stealth.Pilot 10-04-2012 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highyo (Post 7113966)
see this is where i disagree. i dont think that the M5 is the sporty large four door GT that you claim it to be. BMW invented this class of car. it used to be a 4 door sports car. you can argue that as cars get bigger/heavier/more luxurious, some of the inherrent sportiness falls away. i get that. but this is their wheelhouse. they INVENTED this niche. and now they are getting pushed out of the limelight by the Cadillac?

oh the irony

It still is a 4 door sports car. And Audi subsidized media nor your armchair commentary will change that.

highyo 10-04-2012 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot (Post 7113983)
It still is a 4 door sports car. And Audi subsidized media nor your armchair commentary will change that.

my doth think the lady protests too much

solstice 10-04-2012 03:20 PM

Richard Hammond? Top gear and BMW is a weird thing. When BMW built drivers cars they trashed them and now when they build luxo cruisers every BMW is the best car ever. When the Stig posts a poor lap with the new M5 there is no time to show it and it's not "interesting" anyway. Since when is lap times not interesting to them? Why even give it to the Stig if it's not interesting? Something smells here, I still enjoy Top Gear though but I don't trust them to be objective, government sponsored or not.

Anyway no one is accusing the M5 of being bad and there is no need for people who loves it to be offended. There are obviously more people that prefer these large techno overload cars but for us that prefer a purer more direct car these new cars is a huge disappointment. It's not what we want and not why we are attracted to BMW.

Capobranco 10-04-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highyo (Post 7113966)
see this is where i disagree. i dont think that the M5 is the sporty large four door GT that you claim it to be. BMW invented this class of car. it used to be a 4 door sports car. you can argue that as cars get bigger/heavier/more luxurious, some of the inherrent sportiness falls away. i get that. but this is their wheelhouse. they INVENTED this niche. and now they are getting pushed out of the limelight by the Cadillac?

oh the irony

Of course, you identify an essential truth - but the world is changing and I am trying to accommodate myself to this changing reality.

BTW I regard my M3 as perfect in terms of my needs and desires. I am certain the new M3 will be a more capable sports sedan but I am not certain if it will speak to my heart. I find the idea of keeping my e92 M3 for a long time increasingly very appealing. It's hard to top perfect.

Stealth.Pilot 10-04-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capobranco (Post 7113941)
I have a slightly different take...

Instead of bemoaning what the M5 is not, I prefer to celebrate it for what it is - an ultimate expression of a gentleman's rapid express - a sporty large four door GT, capable of great velocity, offering a luxury environment. Moreover, being a BMW, the M5 is still a value play - a lot of content for a not an unreasonable sum.

Cars are changing - look at the 991 v. 997 - more capable but less visceral la BMW M5. Slightly homogenized, less edgy, more luxury, enhanced efficiency and tech, is the new normal. I suspect we need to accommodate ourselves to this brave new reality. In a world increasingly dominated by a "green" vehicle psyche, and given the development costs of any new car, I toast BMW for having the courage to produce the M5.

You are right on the mark.

What makes the M5 special is that it's a car that you are excited to drive on the streets. It's power and handling are perfectly honed for the Alpine roads, the mountains and hills, the city streets and the highways.

Is it the ultimate track car? No it isn't. The Ariel Atom is far better.

However this review is effectively judging the M5 by the wrong standards. It's like saying the Porsche 911 GT3 is rubbish because the Ariel Atom gives you more feel, more excitement, more connection to the road. But try driving an Ariel Atom to the office in the rain!

The M5 to me - is the best possible saloon car I would want to drive on public roads. And nothing comes close. You give me an example and I will tell you why it isn't as good.

Panamera - too quiet, lacks excitement, instrumentation is not good enough for driving at the limit (e.g. no shift indicators in HUD), steering wheel is too thin and not conducive to control.

CLS63 AMG - balance is not quite perfect. Doesn't corner as well. Also doesn't have good instrumentation. Transmission is too slow.

M3 - not particularly luxurious, jumpy over expansion joints, not fast enough.

E63 AMG - Ugly, and same issues as CLS63 AMG

S6 - AWD unable to deliver the same driving excitement. Where's the power sliding?

Cadillac CTS-V - haven't driven it and I have no intention of doing so. Its a smaller car and it looks like ****.

So having ruled out the sedan competition, you are left with sports cars. Well that's comparing apples and oranges isn't it?

highyo 10-04-2012 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot (Post 7114004)
You are right on the mark.

What makes the M5 special is that it's a car that you are excited to drive on the streets. It's power and handling are perfectly honed for the Alpine roads, the mountains and hills, the city streets and the highways.

Is it the ultimate track car? No it isn't. The Ariel Atom is far better.

However this review is effectively judging the M5 by the wrong standards. It's like saying the Porsche 911 GT3 is rubbish because the Ariel Atom gives you more feel, more excitement, more connection to the road. But try driving an Ariel Atom to the office in the rain!

The M5 to me - is the best possible saloon car I would want to drive on public roads. And nothing comes close. You give me an example and I will tell you why it isn't as good.

Panamera - too quiet, lacks excitement, instrumentation is not good enough for driving at the limit (e.g. no shift indicators in HUD), steering wheel is too thin and not conducive to control.

CLS63 AMG - balance is not quite perfect. Doesn't corner as well. Also doesn't have good instrumentation. Transmission is too slow.

M3 - not particularly luxurious, jumpy over expansion joints, not fast enough.

E63 AMG - Ugly, and same issues as CLS63 AMG

S6 - AWD unable to deliver the same driving excitement. Where's the power sliding?

Cadillac CTS-V - haven't driven it and I have no intention of doing so. Its a smaller car and it looks like ****.

So having ruled out the sedan competition, you are left with sports cars. Well that's comparing apples and oranges isn't it?

maz quatro, cadillac cts-v, e63 AMG, pana (again, looks? this is why bmw is losing this battle. the e39 was not attractive, nor was the e60)

lots of worthy competitors. guess it speaks to complacency, or more likely companies picking up the slack and filling the niche. but again, this is the first time i have heard an M car being trashed for under-enthusiasm. maybe it was "gas guzzler" or "too raw" or "not refined". but not this.

it's different. and an important distinction.

highyo 10-04-2012 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capobranco (Post 7114001)
Of course, you identify an essential truth - but the world is changing and I am trying to accommodate myself to this changing reality.

BTW I regard my M3 as perfect in terms of my needs and desires. I am certain the new M3 will be a more capable sports sedan but I am not certain if it will speak to my heart. I find the idea of keeping my e92 M3 for a long time increasingly very appealing. It's hard to top perfect.

i'm in the same boat. i don't think there can be a better car made than the m3 (and btw, many many many reviews will say the same thing). it feels like a bespoke suit

Stealth.Pilot 10-04-2012 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highyo (Post 7114012)
maz quatro, cadillac cts-v, e63 AMG, pana (again, looks? this is why bmw is losing this battle. the e39 was not attractive, nor was the e60)

lots of worthy competitors. guess it speaks to complacency, or more likely companies picking up the slack and filling the niche. but again, this is the first time i have heard an M car being trashed for under-enthusiasm. maybe it was "gas guzzler" or "too raw" or "not refined". but not this.

it's different. and an important distinction.

Nah. It's one person's half baked opinion. Probably a cross dresser with unusual tastes.

highyo 10-04-2012 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot (Post 7114017)
Nah. It's one person's half baked opinion. Probably a cross dresser with unusual tastes.

as an M car owner, it sticks in my craw that the first line of a review is

Underwhelming. The 2013 BMW M5 is underwhelming.

We're shocked. No, we're disappointed. Is this really an M5 we don't love? An M5 we wouldn't sell our kids in order to buy? An M5 we don't just want to drive all day to go nowhere?

It is. It absolutely is.


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