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-   -   X1 vs 328i (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=653305)

maks898 10-21-2012 08:04 PM

X1 vs 328i
 
I have a question regarding which car is better... the 2013 x1 or the 2013 328i. Both cars have the same engine and transmission, but the price is significantly lower for the x1. I do not understand how a car that presumably costs about the same to manufacture costs over 6 thousand less. If both the X1 and the 328i have the same internals (or at least similar internals), why does the X1 have a starting price that is much lower than the 3-series' starting price? Either BMW is content with throwing away a 20 percent additional profit margin or the X1 must have had some substantial price cutting forced onto it. It could be said that, since the X1 is new, BMW could have sacrificed a great bit of profit to make it popular, but, considering the popularity of BMW, any BMW car that looks nice will succeed. Furthermore, usually car companies provide amazing lease incentives or rebates when a new model is released rather than cutting the MSRP, and, considering that the lease on an X1 is more than one the 328i, that's obviously not the case. Therefore, I am curious if there is a mechanical, or any other, reason to this price discrepancy...? Thanks.

maks898 10-21-2012 08:10 PM

Oh, and btw, the reason why I ask is because I am looking for a new BMW. I was debating between the 128i, the 328i and the X1. But, as the 128i will have a new body in a year or so, I decided to write it off. Also, surprisingly, the 128i, with the venerable, but also old, I6 engine is actually slower than both the 328i and the X1. I like the X1 body a lot, and I also like the fact that I can add 4-wheel drive and Navi without exceeding the cost of a package-less 328i, but the 328i is the 328i. Its a hard choice, and that's why I want to know if there's any additional benefits the 328i offers that the X1 doesn't. Thanks.

two-five boy 10-21-2012 08:19 PM

the price point of the X1 should be compared to the 1 Series, while X3 comps with the 3 series, etc.

maks898 10-21-2012 08:44 PM

But, if the X1 is about the same size as the 3-series (if not bigger), with similar features, it can be seen as equal to the 3-series. So, why is it over 6k cheaper? Metal, plastic, etc all cost the same, and the X1 weighs more than the 3-series, so it must have more of some materials. Therefore, unless its inferior in some way to the 3-series, BMW must be losing a lot of potential profit.

edx1 10-21-2012 08:51 PM

X1 isn't as refined inside as the 3 series, also fewer standard features.

The X1 will also only have the 2013 and 2014 model years in the current body, 2015 models will be based on Mini's Countrymans new frame.

I also think the 2015 version might be smaller than the current X1 but that's only a guess.

I'm picking the X1 one at the current price, I think it's a good value and fits my likes better than the 3 series so it's a win-win for me at the lower price point, but I don't care about anything but the fun factor and that the 3 series is too short to be driving safely where I live.

maks898 10-22-2012 01:09 AM

But, the current body X1 was just released for the US market this year, so why change it so soon? Also, the standard features on the 328i are not much greater than the ones present in the X1. Power/memory seats is not a massive feature. Besides, you can literally add the Navi, rear camera and power/memory seats to the X1 and still be under the price for a standard 328i. Therefore, it still doesn't really make sense why the X1 has a price that is considerably lower than the 328i. If the specs are exactly the same, and the additional standard features are obviously not worth nearly 7 grand, where does those additional thousands in savings come from? The interior on the X1 looks just as sophisticated, expensive, and refined as on the 328i. The design might be different, but I, for one, think the X1 interior is better looking that the one on the 328i. So, it begs the question...what did BMW cut from the X1 to make it fit a price point that is nearly $7000 lower than the 328i? Maybe inferior braking or suspension components, etc?

afshawnt 10-22-2012 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maks898 (Post 7149662)
But, the current body X1 was just released for the US market this year, so why change it so soon?

Because the world doesn't revolve around what happens in the US :p But seriously, the X1 is a global product that has a great sales market globally (outside the US), and currently its life cycle should be based on that.

the_fox 10-22-2012 06:30 AM

Trying to disect the price differences between cars/lines is an exercise in futility, since for the most part it's not based on the cost of materials, but rather on what the market will bear. There are much cheaper cars out there with a lot more standard features than any BMW. And 2-door BMW's cost more than 4-door ones, even though they used less doors to build them, so they should have been cheaper, right? I think the X1 is cheaper because it's not yet a well-established model, unlike the 3-series. Expect pricing to increase for the new X1 generation in a couple of years.

CanadianDriver 10-22-2012 07:15 AM

IMO, since the X1 is based on the E90, it uses relatively "old" technology vs. the F30 328i. As with any older tech, the are priced cheaper.

The interior of the X1 looks almost identical to the previous generation 3-series (materials, parts, etc.)

Tirpitz 10-22-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianDriver (Post 7149974)
IMO, since the X1 is based on the E90, it uses relatively "old" technology vs. the F30 328i. As with any older tech, the are priced cheaper.

The interior of the X1 looks almost identical to the previous generation 3-series (materials, parts, etc.)

+1.

That is likely the real reason. You are not getting the latest refinements in terms of chassis and interior details. The F30 also allows a wider range of equipment and options and the ability to take the car down a pathway to being more luxury or more sport will impact the cost of the base vehicle.

bimmerized 10-22-2012 12:11 PM

If comparably equipped the difference is more like $4500 not $7K. As you menioned, the F30 gets power seats, but also iDrive, heated rear seats, rear HVAC vents, and ambient lighting standard. Also the quality of the interior parts is noticeably lower in the X1. Note that the seat desigs are different as well. Why the paddles are only offered with the Sport Line and M Sport is beyond me. It's likely a way to encourage them into a package. The F30 has more interior passenger space and maybe they can command more for that.

Remember that they didn't introduce the X1 to US until this year because they couldn't make as good of a profit on them as the ROW, but now they have the capacity and can accept the lower profit. If you can sell a car for a lower profit without impacting the sales of other models, why not?

As others have said, it comes down to what the market will pay, and they will ask what they can get. All models have acceptable profit, but why not a fatter profit, if people are willing to pay.

mismaloya 10-22-2012 02:09 PM

All of the above, plus the 3 series has a legendary status in the automotive world and they can get a premium on it.

maks898 10-23-2012 12:36 AM

So, there are no mechanical differences between the X1 and the 328i? Is the X1 in any way mechanically inferior to the 328i? The interior design and quality doesn't look any less expensive on the X1. And, how is the X1 based on the old 328i body? I know the 128i is, but the 128i also has the old I6 engine that was standard on the previous model 328i. The X1, on the other hand, has the same 2.0T engine that is used by the current F25 328i.

I still can't fully understand why the price of the X1 is so much lower than the 328i. Even when you account for the differences in standard features, the price is still over $4500 less. I just don't see BMW execs willing to toss out such a profit margin without a fight. They must have told their engineers to cut and cut...to try to cut everything possible to trim the fat, so to speak. Maybe use inferior suspension components, etc..

I honestly hope I am wrong, because I really love the X1, particularly when I can get 4-wheel drive, Navi, and a backup camera for less than a standard 328i. I just can't grasp why 2 cars that are about the same size, with apparently the same engine, transmission and mechanical components, have a relatively substantial cost disparity. They are both made by the same manufacturer. And, the X1 is actually heavier, meaning it uses more material, thereby increasing the cost for BMW. If the X1 was made by, lets says, Hyundai, I would understand the disparity, but its not.

pony_trekker 10-23-2012 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maks898 (Post 7151857)
So, there are no mechanical differences between the X1 and the 328i? Is the X1 in any way mechanically inferior to the 328i? The interior design and quality doesn't look any less expensive on the X1. And, how is the X1 based on the old 328i body? I know the 128i is, but the 128i also has the old I6 engine that was standard on the previous model 328i. The X1, on the other hand, has the same 2.0T engine that is used by the current F25 328i.

I still can't fully understand why the price of the X1 is so much lower than the 328i. Even when you account for the differences in standard features, the price is still over $4500 less. I just don't see BMW execs willing to toss out such a profit margin without a fight. They must have told their engineers to cut and cut...to try to cut everything possible to trim the fat, so to speak. Maybe use inferior suspension components, etc..

I honestly hope I am wrong, because I really love the X1, particularly when I can get 4-wheel drive, Navi, and a backup camera for less than a standard 328i. I just can't grasp why 2 cars that are about the same size, with apparently the same engine, transmission and mechanical components, have a relatively substantial cost disparity. They are both made by the same manufacturer. And, the X1 is actually heavier, meaning it uses more material, thereby increasing the cost for BMW. If the X1 was made by, lets says, Hyundai, I would understand the disparity, but its not.

a 3500 sf house costs about the same to build as a 1500 sf house.

CanadianDriver 10-23-2012 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maks898 (Post 7151857)
So, there are no mechanical differences between the X1 and the 328i? Is the X1 in any way mechanically inferior to the 328i?

Your observation about the engine/tranny combo is correct. Other than that, the E84 is "100%" different from F30 platform

raleedy 10-23-2012 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maks898 (Post 7151857)

I still can't fully understand why the price of the X1 is so much lower than the 328i.

The reason you are having difficulty is that you are thinking about price in terms of the seller's cost. That's a factor, but only one, and not necessarily the most important one. BMW prices its products differently in different markets, even though manufacturing costs would be pretty much the same.

maks898 10-23-2012 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianDriver (Post 7152138)
Your observation about the engine/tranny combo is correct. Other than that, the E84 is "100%" different from F30 platform

How is it different? Is it inferior? Thanks..

bimmerized 10-24-2012 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maks898 (Post 7153979)
How is it different? Is it inferior? Thanks..

IMO, the E84 is superior. Depends on how you look at it. The E84 drives more like the E90 and is more engaging to drive. The F30 offers more options and refinement, like Sport + mode and also options that can't be had in the E84 like dynamic suspension and variable steering.

Do yourself a favor and drive both, then report back. If you still can't tell, go with better valued X1.

If you are considering a manual trans, there's no choice as the X1 is not available with a manual. If you want the 35i, then the F30 has a better transmission for it right now.

kosmo 10-24-2012 05:01 PM

Perhaps a better question is why the 3 is priced so much higher than the X1!

Regarding the next gen of the 128 and X1, keep in mind that these will be based on a front-wheel drive platform, so if you value the rear-drive approach (even in AWD applications), don't wait too long.

Personally, if I could order a current 5-door 128 hatchback with the I-6 and manual transmission here in the US, I would think I had died and gone to heaven!

sridario 10-25-2012 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosmo (Post 7155816)
Perhaps a better question is why the 3 is priced so much higher than the X1!

Regarding the next gen of the 128 and X1, keep in mind that these will be based on a front-wheel drive platform, so if you value the rear-drive approach (even in AWD applications), don't wait too long.

Personally, if I could order a current 5-door 128 hatchback with the I-6 and manual transmission here in the US, I would think I had died and gone to heaven!

Then heaven awaits you in Munich...:D You should look into European delivery.

conceyted 10-25-2012 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sridario (Post 7157780)
Then heaven awaits you in Munich...:D You should look into European delivery.

Euro delivery won't give you the option to buy a euro car. Us spec cars only for us customers.

kosmo 10-26-2012 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conceyted (Post 7157921)
Euro delivery won't give you the option to buy a euro car. Us spec cars only for us customers.

Dang it. Excited for an hour and seven minutes!

Bloomsbury2k 11-18-2012 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maks898 (Post 7149662)
But, the current body X1 was just released for the US market this year, so why change it so soon? Also, the standard features on the 328i are not much greater than the ones present in the X1. Power/memory seats is not a massive feature. Besides, you can literally add the Navi, rear camera and power/memory seats to the X1 and still be under the price for a standard 328i. Therefore, it still doesn't really make sense why the X1 has a price that is considerably lower than the 328i. If the specs are exactly the same, and the additional standard features are obviously not worth nearly 7 grand, where does those additional thousands in savings come from? The interior on the X1 looks just as sophisticated, expensive, and refined as on the 328i. The design might be different, but I, for one, think the X1 interior is better looking that the one on the 328i. So, it begs the question...what did BMW cut from the X1 to make it fit a price point that is nearly $7000 lower than the 328i? Maybe inferior braking or suspension components, etc?

I believe the 328i can have weather control in the back (i.e. heating/cooling vents) and heated seating, as a feature that the X1 does not have, which is a substantial difference, IMO.


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