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-   -   vibration problem on f10 models (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=655042)

gotnoeyes 10-30-2012 12:22 PM

vibration problem on f10 models
 
hi all im new to this so go easy on me:) i work as a contractor for bmw i fit tires change wheels etc,im trying to work out why the f10 model is such a nitemare to stop vibration in the car at certain speeds. i fitted 4 tires on model balanced wheels spot on 3 weeks later it was back with vibration probs balanced wheels again they were out by a long way corrected them again but still no good ahh. ive had to balance 8 wheels today one car had done 1430 miles with vibration probs and i have to do another one to morra.... looking at the wheels ive balanced or from factory i need to move weights round wheel most of the time as if weights in wrong place(or the tires are moving on rims due 2 braking and pulling away) and also there seems to be a lot of weights on the wheels as per a car without runflats ... but why the f10 some fing is not write with these wheels or a massive batch of tires xxxx

baloo588 11-01-2012 09:14 AM

I had this issue for 1 year. Changed rims 2x, tires 4x (4 different brands), and my dealer was baffled as to why my BMW 5 will have slight seat vibration around 70-80 mph zone. I got car sold off 10 months ago and couldn't be happier. Its a complaint that is all over the world on different forums. Put in "BMW f10 vibration" in the google search to see how many topics come up. You will be surprised. I am not sure why BMW is not getting under this problem after all this time?

RDZumbaugh 11-05-2012 08:38 AM

This post concerns me since BMWNA is doing a "trade assist" on my 2013 328 due to a steering wheel vibration. It only happens between 40mph to 58mph. Complaints started in February of 2012 ~ I bought mine at the end of August. I thought they should have tested my vehicle since they knew it was a potential problem. The Trade Assist deal is approved and they've ordered a 2013 528 for me that will be delivered mid-December.

Did either of you continue to complain to your BMW dealer about the vibration issue? What exactly happens in your F10?

I've been told that BMW has found the "fix" for the F30 steering wheel vibration issue and will be shipping new "racks" to dealers to fix those vehicles.

yogi799 11-05-2012 09:20 AM

I too have something weird. On stock RFTs no vibration whatsoever. Winter tire/wheel combo - vibration at 70-80. Went in to a shop for rebalance, they did. Back to the same vibr. around the same speeds. Again, stock RFTs are perfect. Is it possible that the shop did not balance them right?

snj1013 11-05-2012 09:34 AM

Are your winter wheels BMW or aftermarket. If aftermarket, you may need hub rings. I had a set of aftermarket wheels that were designed as hubcentric (72.56 mm hub bores) but seemed to be a bit larger ( I measured 72.8mm). I could never get those wheels to ride smooth. I tried 2 different sets of tires, road forced balanced them many times at 4 different locations, nothing helped. I returned the wheels and have another set ordered ( different brand). Hopefully this set works out better.

yogi799 11-05-2012 09:59 AM

Aftermarket with hub rings that came from tirerack. The wheels were balanced by tirerack initially which resulted in smooth ride until 70mph. I took them to a great local shop and they corrected something (ie, it showed a bit off balance). The end result - the same. So I wonder what the heck is going on. Is it worth paying for balancing one more time, perhaps in vain? The vibration is minimal, yet still there.

tcoke 11-05-2012 10:13 AM

I'm having a similiar problem with my 2012 550i. The car has the M-sport package with the factory 19" wheels and Pirelli runflat factory tires. Build date was March 2012. It's a slight vibration around 70-80 MPH. Not terrible but weird. I chalked it up to a byproduct of the electric steering but now I'm thinking that is not normal. My last BMW was a 2009 335i and although it did not have the electric assisted steering, it was smooth at any speed. The car goes in this week at the dealer for installation of the Dinan suspension kit so I may have them check it while its there and inquire if anyone else driving F10s are experiencing the same annoying problem.

snj1013 11-05-2012 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yogi799 (Post 7176844)
Aftermarket with hub rings that came from tirerack. The wheels were balanced by tirerack initially which resulted in smooth ride until 70mph. I took them to a great local shop and they corrected something (ie, it showed a bit off balance). The end result - the same. So I wonder what the heck is going on. Is it worth paying for balancing one more time, perhaps in vain? The vibration is minimal, yet still there.

If your balance wasn't performed using a Hunter Road Force Balancer, I would find one in your area and give it another shot. Here is a link where you can locate a shop that owes a Hunter Road Force balancer
http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findgsp9700.cfm

yogi799 11-05-2012 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcoke (Post 7176867)
I'm having a similiar problem with my 2012 550i. The car has the M-sport package with the factory 19" wheels and Pirelli runflat factory tires. Build date was March 2012. It's a slight vibration around 70-80 MPH. Not terrible but weird. I chalked it up to a byproduct of the electric steering but now I'm thinking that is not normal. My last BMW was a 2009 335i and although it did not have the electric assisted steering, it was smooth at any speed. The car goes in this week at the dealer for installation of the Dinan suspension kit so I may have them check it while its there and inquire if anyone else driving F10s are experiencing the same annoying problem.

It's not normal (gee, look at ourselves - we're lowered the damn bar so much). My stock RFTs are vibration free at any speed.


Quote:

Originally Posted by snj1013 (Post 7176876)
If your balance wasn't performed using a Hunter Road Force Balancer, I would find one in your area and give it another shot. Here is a link where you can locate a shop that owes a Hunter Road Force balancer
http://www.gsp9700.com/search/findgsp9700.cfm

Thanks. Is the road force different from "regular" balance using that machine that spins the wheel to 40-50 kmh I think? Would tire rack not do it properly? My local shop indeed found it off balance. So maybe there's something moving inside? (like tire on a rim like someone said)? My neighbour had a similar problem. He ended up finding a cause, there was water residue in the tire, no shop could ever balance it right. The water came from one of those fix-a-flat thingys. But our problem is different I think...

snj1013 11-05-2012 01:52 PM

If your stock RFT are able to run vibration free, to me the problem has to be in your tire/wheel assemblies.

Yes a Road Force balance is different than a normal spin balance. You can read more about the machine on Hunter's website. In a nutsheel, the machine tries to not only balance the wheel/tire assembly, but also measures lateral and radial forces that can contribute to vibrations and your car wanting to pull in one direction. For example, you could have a tire/wheel that is in perfect balance, but the tire or wheel has excessive run out. This run out would exert a force that could be felt through the automobile's suspension system and up through the steering column or driver's seat. The driver would feel a vibration where the tire balancer would indicate all is well. In this case, the shop might try rotating the tire on the wheel to see if the Road Forces could be reduced. If that doesn't help, it might indicate you have a bad tire.

Bottom line, a Road Force balance is better and can diagnose and correct many issue that a traditional spin balance wouldn't. Hunter Road Force balancers are consider "state of the art" and are a lot more common than they were several years ago. You should be able to find a shop that has one in most mid sized cities are larger.

chuck92116 11-05-2012 02:10 PM

I know one person's issue can become others by inference so we have to be careful when diagnosing issues.

While some cars may have defects in various parts causing a vibration issue at certain speeds, I generally find that most tire shops don't have the road-force balancing equipment required to properly install tires and then they blame it on BMW.

I suspect, if you look hard enough, all manufactuers have a car here or there that has a defective part somewhere in the drivetrain causing excessive vibration. However, I don't believe there is any widespread issues with BMWs other than folks hitting pot holes and parking curbs and not realizing the damage being caused to high performance suspension systems.

And no, those after market tires/wheels you buy online are not road-forced balanced. It is some chump in a warehouse making minimum wage and you are lucky if the wheel wieghts stay glued on.

miamiboyca 11-05-2012 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck92116 (Post 7177283)

However, I don't believe there is any widespread issues with BMWs other than folks hitting pot holes and parking curbs and not realizing the damage being caused to high performance suspension systems.

A search will tell you are mistaken, there are numerous complaints about vibrations on F10s. I did not have it during my ED, nut will be on the look out for it. Hopefully they corrected all of these issues for 2013.

chuck92116 11-05-2012 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamiboyca (Post 7177457)
A search will tell you are mistaken, there are numerous complaints about vibrations on F10s. I did not have it during my ED, nut will be on the look out for it. Hopefully they corrected all of these issues for 2013.

Search for the word "virbration" on bimmerfest and you will see complaints on all models in general not just the F10.

I think most of the noise is a result of folks just not familiar with run flats and performance suspension. Some are valid, the rest are influenced by posts they read which manifests itself into problems they don't really have.

Forums can be a dangerous thing as it causes people to dwell on nonsense rather than enjoy life.

They complain about iDrive, vibration, run flats, paint, glass, HVAC, etc. the list goes on and they all must be right.

With every car I have ever driven there has been some vibration. At what point is it too much?

sdbrandon 11-05-2012 04:19 PM

One thing for sure, car forums are full of complaints.

That is why they are there.

Hoowever you must temper what is read on a forum and not paint a broad brush. You have to remember people don't log in to report good news so pereception is easily skewed and those with big egos are resentful when this fact is called out.

miamiboyca 11-05-2012 04:55 PM

Agreed, but you wouldn't see people getting "trade assist" if it wasn't a real issue.

baloo588 11-06-2012 08:17 AM

Excellent point you all have. I agree that the BMW 5 series is a fine sedan and a great one despite the problems that plagued me. I wish BMW did do a better job in producing this car more carefully and making it less problem proned then the other competitors whom have done a great job in releasing their luxury sedans without too many of these issues. Anyways I am still a loyal BMW owner with my 2008 BMW 335xi coupe and I know one day I will return to purchase another BMW but I will avoid the first 2 years of production to be safe.

miamiboyca 11-06-2012 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baloo588 (Post 7178704)
Excellent point you all have. I agree that the BMW 5 series is a fine sedan and a great one despite the problems that plagued me. I wish BMW did do a better job in producing this car more carefully and making it less problem proned then the other competitors whom have done a great job in releasing their luxury sedans without too many of these issues. Anyways I am still a loyal BMW owner with my 2008 BMW 335xi coupe and I know one day I will return to purchase another BMW but I will avoid the first 2 years of production to be safe.

Avoid the first year is always good advice (even though I have not always followed it). The reality is that certain problems will always make it through. Just like in electronics and software - companies can not rule out 100% of the problem during design and testing. The reality is a lot gets missed and the consumer winds up being the final test. (There is just no way they can duplicate a couple of hundred thousand people interacting with their cars in different conditions.) But I accept that, as long as it is coupled with the good service departments and outstanding warranty:thumbup:

Sharbotcom 11-06-2012 04:39 PM

Yogi:

It is possible one of your rims are warped. It does happen and you'll be banging your head against the wall trying get it ballanced/vibration-free without success. I'd try the Hunter Road Force Balancer and if you still have the problem I'd be on the phone to Tirerack. You know the vibration is not caused by a defect in your car because you are vibration free with your regular set-up. So, it has to be an issue with either one of your winter tires or one of the rims. Lots of luck. (I have an appointment to get my winter setup installed on Monday. Ugh! Did I mention I hate winter?)

yogi799 11-06-2012 06:27 PM

Thanks, I may try. Two things:

1. Probably too late now to claim anything? It's been almost a year. Do rims have warranty at all?
2. It is sooo minor and only hwy speeds, it's almost not worth a trouble, but at the same time... why not get it perfect, eh?

Hmm... I'm stuck. But big question is how warranty works, especially almost a year later?

miamiboyca 11-06-2012 06:50 PM

4 years, 50,000 miles. Period.

Obviously its enough to bug you... take it in and show it to them. Continue to do so until they fix (provided you can continue to reproduce it)

My $.02

snj1013 11-06-2012 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamiboyca (Post 7180162)
4 years, 50,000 miles. Period.

Obviously its enough to bug you... take it in and show it to them. Continue to do so until they fix (provided you can continue to reproduce it)

My $.02

The problem is with the OP's winter wheels (aftermarket) and winter tires, so if the OEM wheels/tires are vibration free, this is not BMW's problem.

As far as warranty on the wheels, you need to check with the manufacturer. If one of the wheels is dented/warped, the OP probably is out of luck.

Get the tires Road Force balanced and make sure to get a print out of the balance report.

Also, make sure that the hub rings are installed and not damaged. Plastic ones aren't very durable but do have the advantage that they won't seize to the hubs.

zanga 12-01-2012 12:43 PM

I had the same vibratio issues with my winter wheels.To be mention that I bought my car 10 months ago so Im still in the guarantee period . After visiting BMW several times, changing tires x4 than wheelsx4, always with OEM products, ballancing than reballancing, no solution had been fund.Lakely a mechanic from a small workshop gave me the solution.Wheel hub center rings. Seems umbeliavable but some BMW wheels models are not properly centred on the hub. It is a small differences, millimiters, but this matters. My withter wheels are star 327.
After installing hub rings, those annoying vibration observed between 110-130km/h were disappearing completelly.

mateforrest 12-02-2012 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zanga (Post 7225300)
I had the same vibratio issues with my winter wheels.To be mention that I bought my car 10 months ago so Im still in the guarantee period . After visiting BMW several times, changing tires x4 than wheelsx4, always with OEM products, ballancing than reballancing, no solution had been fund.Lakely a mechanic from a small workshop gave me the solution.Wheel hub center rings. Seems umbeliavable but some BMW wheels models are not properly centred on the hub. It is a small differences, millimiters, but this matters. My withter wheels are star 327.
After installing hub rings, those annoying vibration observed between 110-130km/h were disappearing completelly.

Hello Zanga, please could you give me more information about your fix?
Do you know the exact size of the hub and alloys of the F10?

I have a F10 with19" style 331.

Regards

zanga 12-03-2012 02:51 AM

hi, the rings that I have ordered: inside diameter 74,1 mm outside 72.6 mm. They come as standard as the hub diammeter is standard only the wheels are diffrent. Try www.hubcentric-rings.com

radarguy 12-03-2012 05:59 AM

My case was tire related and took a lot of time and energy to solve. After switching to 18 OEM wheels and Continental tires to solve the 19 LS2 bubble problem, I had vibration. Six Hunter balances from the dealer as well as an independent tire retailer did not solve the problem. It turns out that I had a tire with a manufacturing defect. The defect caused the tread to wobble slightly while the tire was spinning on the balancer. It passed the Hunter balance and runout tests. The BMW dealer and the BMW roving engineer said the tire was within spec. I replaced the tire and everything was fine.

FWIW five of the 12 19 LS2s I had on the car received a conventional, non-Hunter spin balance at the Goodyear dealer and the others a Hunter balance at the BMW dealer. I had no vibration problems whatsoever on those tires.


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