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-   -   2013 3 Series Dilemna, need your input (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657619)

bkw 11-12-2012 06:28 AM

2013 3 Series Dilemna, need your input
 
hey All,

I really need some help in deciding which to choose between fun to drive (335i xdrive) and pampered (328i xdrive) - a Beauty and the Beast sorta comparison I suppose.

The two (available) sedans are a black base 335xi 6sp manual, and an estoril M sport 328xi with everything except technology package.


What are the differences between the two besides the drivetrain and exhaust/rear valance?

Does the 335xi come with brembo brakes stock? Or are they the same as the 328?

My daily drive is 12 miles of local roads single lane country (twisty) roads each way.

Thanks!

boltjaM3s 11-12-2012 06:37 AM

It would be helpful if you told us what your ideal BMW would be. If you go to the BMW website, build your own car as if you could get it tomorrow, and tell us that it would probably make your decision very simple.

If you're looking for the quick answer, get the 328i M-Sport. What makes the 3 Series such a great car is the combination of sporty characteristics and a healthy dose of comfort options. Buying a stripped, baseline 335i is too skewed towards the sport. And, by the way, that's without the Sport suspension so you'd be getting a lot of extra power which will make the body roll that much more noticeable. Twisty roads, 300HP, no Sport suspension is a very disappointing experience, likely why the car is still sitting on the lot.

BJ

Jamesonsviggen 11-12-2012 06:39 AM

You get the Brembo's only on the 335.

I would go for the 335 only for the manual transmission. Everything else about the 328 you mention I prefer. But for ME 3 pedals is the deal breaker.

sean10mm 11-12-2012 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7189774)
You get the Brembo's only on the 335.

Do you have a source for that? The 335 has bigger brakes than the 328, but this is the first I've heard of the 335i coming with Brembos.

Usual warning about xDrive cars: none of them come with the sport suspension. Not the Sport and not the M Sport. If the BMW web site says they do the web site is wrong. You can read the official 2013 3 series ordering guide to confirm this for yourself. If you care about handling on a xDrive you need to get the Dynamic Handling Package with Adaptive M suspension.

bkw 11-12-2012 07:47 AM

I've read posts about unbadged Brembo's on the 335, but do not have any confirmation - thus why I asked in my original post.

My ideal BMW's are M3's.. in fact, the only BMW's I've owned have all been M3's - e30, e36, e46.

But with two kids, two mortgages, and a wife who has an unhealthy obsession with shoes and bags; the 335xi is a good balance between fun and practical.

I just compared the two build sheets and I'm leaning towards the 335. A few key options on the 328 are standard on the 335. The 328 has that the 335 doesnt is the premium package, and I'm sure I can live with pressing the key fob to unlock the doors myself. But, the 328 has the M Sport package, and I LOVE that front bumper!

sean10mm 11-12-2012 07:48 AM

Addressing the original question, it really depends. I'm coming from a fairly spartan sports car and wanted power, AWD and 4 doors but couldn't stomach something as completely tasteless as an Evo or STI. For me a relatively low option 335i xDrive 6MT with DHP was a slam dunk because it still gets me way more interior goodies while offering the driving dynamics I wanted.

And, you know, some class. Or at least the appearance of class. :bigpimp:

But that's a completely different set of priorities from most BMW buyers so that might not help you at all.

tturedraider 11-12-2012 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean10mm (Post 7189838)
Do you have a source for that? The 335 has bigger brakes than the 328, but this is the first I've heard of the 335i coming with Brembos.

+1 - I have a feeling this would be news to Brembo and BMW.

sean10mm 11-12-2012 08:09 AM

The M Performance brakes are Brembos, but they're a dealer-installed option. The front 335i brake calipers sort of look like unpainted Brembos if you squint at them, but the rear brakes just look like generic units from the BWM parts bin.

bkw 11-12-2012 09:42 AM

I just pulled this off the f30 FAQ from here:

What are the brakes on the F30?
The 328i has single piston floating calipers on all four wheels. 335i gets upgraded to 4 piston fixed caliper up front and single piston floating caliper in the rear. For complete brakes specs see the F30 Complete Specifications thread.


However, when searching the specification thread it doesn't mention anything else about the brakes other than rotor size.

boltjaM3s 11-12-2012 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7189774)
You get the Brembo's only on the 335.

I would go for the 335 only for the manual transmission. Everything else about the 328 you mention I prefer. But for ME 3 pedals is the deal breaker.

I mentioned an issue, just want to make sure it's valid:

A 335ix without the Sport or Adaptive M Sport suspension is a downer for a spirited enthusiast. The xDrive suspension is the softest of all the F30 suspensions (softer than base Comfort, softer than Sport, softer than sport mode in Adaptive M) and so the combination of the 300 horses and the softest suspension means unexpected bodyroll that will undermine the fun of the more powerful engine and manual transmission, especially for someone used to M3's on 24 miles of twisty roads like the OP.

Right or wrong?

BJ

Jamesonsviggen 11-12-2012 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s (Post 7190162)
I mentioned an issue, just want to make sure it's valid:

A 335ix without the Sport or Adaptive M Sport suspension is a downer for a spirited enthusiast. The xDrive suspension is the softest of all the F30 suspensions (softer than base Comfort, softer than Sport, softer than sport mode in Adaptive M) and so the combination of the 300 horses and the softest suspension means unexpected bodyroll that will undermine the fun of the more powerful engine and manual transmission, especially for someone used to M3's on 24 miles of twisty roads like the OP.

Right or wrong?

BJ

Agree 100%.

I would throw on aftermarket parts. For many, especially those who lease they will be left with the car as is.

sean10mm 11-12-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s (Post 7190162)
I mentioned an issue, just want to make sure it's valid:

A 335ix without the Sport or Adaptive M Sport suspension is a downer for a spirited enthusiast. The xDrive suspension is the softest of all the F30 suspensions (softer than base Comfort, softer than Sport, softer than sport mode in Adaptive M) and so the combination of the 300 horses and the softest suspension means unexpected bodyroll that will undermine the fun of the more powerful engine and manual transmission, especially for someone used to M3's on 24 miles of twisty roads like the OP.

Right or wrong?

BJ

To clear up some things:

1) This can't be repeated enough, you can't get the sport suspension with any xDrive F30.

2) I haven't seen any actual evidence or official source cited saying that the base xDrive suspension is softer than the base non-xDrive suspension. It's softer than the sport suspension and the Adaptive M suspension when set to sport/sport+, but I've never seen anything that says it handles worse than the RWD base suspension. You might be right but I haven't seen any evidence on the subject.

Your basic point holds that if you care about performance and are getting an xDrive you don't want the base suspension, you want the Adaptive M suspension that comes with the DHP.

boltjaM3s 11-12-2012 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7190188)
Agree 100%.

I would throw on aftermarket parts. For many, especially those who lease they will be left with the car as is.

Whew. Cool. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't misleading the OP and that I'd absorbed Lesson's From Enthusiasts #62 properly.

BJ

sean10mm 11-12-2012 10:17 AM

I wouldn't assume you can slap an aftermarket suspension on an xDrive F30 either. Apparently there is a reason BMW won't offer xDrives with suspensions that lower the car even 10mm. My understanding is that lowering the car is not good for the longevity of the xDrive system.

boltjaM3s 11-12-2012 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean10mm (Post 7190194)
To clear up some things:

1) This can't be repeated enough, you can't get the sport suspension with any xDrive F30.

2) I haven't seen any actual evidence or official source cited saying that the base xDrive suspension is softer than the base non-xDrive suspension. It's softer than the sport suspension and the Adaptive M suspension when set to sport/sport+, but I've never seen anything that says it handles worse than the RWD base suspension. You might be right but I haven't seen any evidence on the subject.

Your basic point holds that if you care about performance and are getting an xDrive you don't want the base suspension, you want the Adaptive M suspension that comes with the DHP.

I'd read in another forum from owners that the xDrive suspension was softer than the base suspension. I'll see if I can find that thread and post it, I'm sure it was anecdotal, I don't think anyone's actually hooked it up to test equipment to validate it.

We agree that the Adaptive M is needed on an xDrive car. The question is: Should the OP avoid this particular 335i because it's lacking Adaptive M? I say yes merely because he is used to M3's for what looks like the last 10+ years.

BJ

sean10mm 11-12-2012 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s (Post 7190215)
We agree that the Adaptive M is needed on an xDrive car. The question is: Should the OP avoid this particular 335i because it's lacking Adaptive M? I say yes merely because he is used to M3's for what looks like the last 10+ years.

I tend to agree, a manual 335i xDrive without Adaptive M is neither fish nor fowl.

samualcc 11-12-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkw (Post 7189875)

My ideal BMW's are M3's.. in fact, the only BMW's I've owned have all been M3's - e30, e36, e46.

Just to stop you right here. The 328 or the 335 are not M3s. Suggestion: Purchase a late model M3 Sedan from the E90 generation. I believe they made them through the 2010 model year. Do this only if you truly believe that your ideal BMW is an M3.

Better still buy an E46 M3 and a Hyundai to to move the kids around in!

elistan 11-12-2012 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkw (Post 7189752)
I really need some help in deciding which to choose between fun to drive (335i xdrive) and pampered (328i xdrive) - a Beauty and the Beast sorta comparison I suppose.

The two (available) sedans are a black base 335xi 6sp manual, and an estoril M sport 328xi with everything except technology package.

Given the choice between:
1) 335xi no-line with 6MT
2) 328xi M Sport Line (assumed to have DHP and SAT)

I would say the 328xi is actually the "fun to drive" model.

sean10mm 11-12-2012 11:56 AM

There really needs to be a sticky here explaining the whole xDrive/Sport Suspension/Adaptive M madness to people. It constantly comes up and confuses people to no end.

justinnum1 11-12-2012 11:57 AM

if it was me, i would take the esotril 328, no brainer

Jamesonsviggen 11-12-2012 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s (Post 7190195)
Whew. Cool. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't misleading the OP and that I'd absorbed Lesson's From Enthusiasts #62 properly.

BJ

Whether stock, or done after the fact, power or increasing power has a way of highlighting a cars short comings.

So a base suspension 328 may be more tolerable than a base suspension 335.

It annoys me that to get AWD and a manual I HAVE to get the 335. Adding springs and swaybars to that car is easier than doing a 6mt swap to the 328XI(talking from experience, I actually did an auto-manual conversion in my younger days...never again).

Quinn Lasser 11-12-2012 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean10mm (Post 7190460)
There really needs to be a sticky here explaining the whole xDrive/Sport Suspension/Adaptive M madness to people. It constantly comes up and confuses people to no end.

Yep. I'm definitely confused. But from what I can read on the actual invoice on my 335i X 2013, I don't have it. But since I've never had it, I don't think I miss it. At least not yet. :)

kpgray 11-12-2012 03:42 PM

We agree that the Adaptive M is needed on an xDrive car. The question is: Should the OP avoid this particular 335i because it's lacking Adaptive M? I say yes merely because he is used to M3's for what looks like the last 10+ years.

BJ[/QUOTE]

If one has been driving M3s, a 240 HP may be a little light. If he only drives a dozen miles through the twisty roads, the Horse Power on a 335 would be closer to the M3 and the manual would be nice. The question with the suspension I would ask is not the shortcomings of the base suspension on the F30 or its relitivity to other F30s, but relitiveity to the suspensions of the previous E30, E36 or E46 that he had before.:dunno:

lqaddict 11-12-2012 04:46 PM

I think the sway b/w sport and non-sport suspension is only valid if you track the car. I'd go with the sport package only for the sport seats for daily driving, if you live an area prone to pothole explosions sport suspension in combination with stiffer rft's will make for unbearable experience for a daily driving.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Bimmer App

captainaudio 11-12-2012 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lqaddict (Post 7190992)
I think the sway b/w sport and non-sport suspension is only valid if you track the car. I'd go with the sport package only for the sport seats for daily driving, if you live an area prone to pothole explosions sport suspension in combination with stiffer rft's will make for unbearable experience for a daily driving.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Bimmer App

I agree that was the case with the E9x but am not sure if it is with the F30 as I have not driven one. So far I have not heard anyone complain about Pothole Explosions with an F30.

I have spoken to a number of people from BMW and although they would never officially admit it they were very aware that the E9x sport suspension in conjunction with the OEM Bridgestone RFTs had some serious issues.

The difference between the sport suspension and the regular suspenion was very noticable on the E9x. The sport suspension was very good on smooth roads but the reality is that few of us have the luxury of driving exclusively on smooth roads and the E9x sport suspenion is brutal on bad road surfaces.

CA


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