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-   -   New Member Pricing Question (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657768)

jeme 11-12-2012 04:56 PM

New Member Pricing Question
 
Driving a 2011 VW Touareg TDI thinking of going to the 2012 x5d. Would be interested on thoughts on the switch, it will be a reduction in MPG. Next question is pricing.

MSRP of $65,995
Option are:
Premium
Sport
20 inch wheels
Premium Audio
BMW Apps

Discounts are:
$4500 ECO
$3000 Center Contribution
$1500 Holiday rebate

Lease base price is 56,995. I am a USAA member but they are saying that $2500 is in the center contribution?

10K 36 month lease with .00125 money factor comes to about $631 per month with $5046 due at signing.

I think it can go lower. Any thoughts or comments? I am in central Florida. Thanks in advance.

ndabunka 11-12-2012 06:09 PM

Is the "Center Contribution" suppose to be DEALER CONTRIBUTION? If that is the case then most are getting dealer sales prices @ around $1K over INVOICE. Invoice on your should be around $61,500 so that should be the starting point. You can then subtract eco & any financing discounts from there. The Holiday rebate is NOT part of a FINANCED X5 DiESEL deal. They only offer that on a lease through BMW finance. Not certain about how USAA works but if they are financing it, you would give up the BMW finance components ($750 & a $500 initiative) in lui of the USAA financing. Search for my prior posts and you will see my details. I was not able to get the USAA discount as I have never been in the military.

Marwan 11-13-2012 09:01 AM

What does the $5046 due at signing include? You really should NOT put any money down on a lease as you would lose it in case the car is stolen or totaled. You should do MSDs instead as this would lower your monthly payment and the money is still yours if something happens to the car.

jeme 11-13-2012 04:52 PM

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your comments. The $5046 is a combination of money down and lease inception and dealer fees.

Marwan 11-15-2012 07:51 AM

Jeme,

You should really NOT put any money down for the reason I stated in my previous post. If you have the money to spare and want to decrease your monthly payments, do MSDs. If you're not familiar with MSDs, do a search. You'll thank yourself for it!

kbeamer 11-15-2012 07:57 AM

Very interesting. So what's the point of all dealers saying there is money due at signing. Could you explain msd a little more?

ard 11-15-2012 07:58 AM

To directly answer the OPs question:

The 'recommended price" should be 500 to 1000 profit for the dealer.

jeme 11-15-2012 09:12 AM

Wow! I am dealing with Fields in Orlando, for about a week now and cannot get them anywhere close to those numbers - $500 to $1000 over invoice.

Quick question for ARD, my assumption is that would be $1000 over invoice less the discounts or are you saying $1000 over invoice including the discounts?

Marwan 11-15-2012 12:11 PM

It's $500-1000 over invoice minus discounts, for a final price that is thousands of dollars UNDER invoice. You then add tax to this final price.

Marwan 11-15-2012 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbeamer (Post 7196434)
Very interesting. So what's the point of all dealers saying there is money due at signing. Could you explain msd a little more?

In a lease there is always money due at signing because even if one puts zero dollars for a down-payment, they still have to pay the 1st month payment and security deposit (if applicable) at signing.

Multiple security deposits (MSDs) are just what's in the name. You can pay up to 7 times your security deposit upfront. Each one of these 7 security deposit payments decreases your money factor (MF) by 0.0007. So if one makes 7 MSDs, their MF goes down by 0.0049. That is a very significant number which could easily save one hundreds of dollars over the life of their lease (I'm saving a total of about $1700 over the 36 months of my lease). That by the way is way more than I could have made by putting the money in a savings account or even in a CD.

So what's the difference between MSDs and a down-payment? The MSD money is yours to collect back at the "natural" end of the lease, at an early pull out of the lease, or at its end due to a totaled or stolen car. The down-payment money is NOT yours to collect under any circumstance. Once you make a down-payment, you never see that money back again no matter what!

OK, so why aren't dealers pushing MSDs on their customers all the time? Well, in my dealer's case it was simple ignorance on the CA's part. When I mentioned MSDs to him he looked bewildered and said "what's that?". Yes, a BMW dealership CA had not even heard of MSDs until I asked!!! Other CAs at that dealership did not fare any better; only the GM knew what I was talking about. Go figure...

ard 11-15-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeme (Post 7196616)
Wow! I am dealing with Fields in Orlando, for about a week now and cannot get them anywhere close to those numbers - $500 to $1000 over invoice.

Quick question for ARD, my assumption is that would be $1000 over invoice less the discounts or are you saying $1000 over invoice including the discounts?

The longer you 'work' with them the worse you are...they know they have someone that is 'bound' to them, and they will just grind you down!

Someone that calls, says 'heres the number, are we close?'...and either they make the deal or that caller moves on, will have a higher likelihood of finding the deal. IMO

Back to the question.

Lets say:

MSRP =70k
Invoice = 64k

Incentives: ECO=3500
USAA, Drive whatever, grad whatever = 3500

Total incentives = 7000

Final "invoice" is 64k-7000 = 57,000

Add MACO, (300) add training (200??) add delivery (895?)..and add 500 profit

Your price before tax: 5700+300+200+985+500= 58,985

Do keep in mind that different online sources will add maco, training and delivery into the "invoice" and some will not.... make sure you understand the numbers

A

ndabunka 11-15-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 7197053)
The longer you 'work' with them the worse you are...they know they have someone that is 'bound' to them, and they will just grind you down!

Someone that calls, says 'heres the number, are we close?'...and either they make the deal or that caller moves on, will have a higher likelihood of finding the deal. IMO

Back to the question.

Lets say:

MSRP =70k
Invoice = 64k

Incentives: ECO=3500
USAA, Drive whatever, grad whatever = 3500

Total incentives = 7000

Final "invoice" is 64k-7000 = 57,000

Add MACO, (300) add training (200??) add delivery (895?)..and add 500 profit

Your price before tax: 5700+300+200+985+500= 58,985

Do keep in mind that different online sources will add maco, training and delivery into the "invoice" and some will not.... make sure you understand the numbers

A

Only thing wrong here is "DESTINATION/DELIVERY". It is included in EVERY invoice I have seen.

ndabunka 11-15-2012 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marwan (Post 7197012)
Multiple security deposits (MSDs) are just what's in the name. You can pay up to 7 times your security deposit upfront. Each one of these 7 security deposit payments decreases your money factor (MF) by 0.0007. So if one makes 7 MSDs, their MF goes down by 0.0049. That is a very significant number which could easily save one hundreds of dollars over the life of their lease

One thing that should be noted but was not covered by Marwan is that there ARE some risks with multiple MSDs. Security deposits are just that... deposits as security. At the end of the lease, the dealership can draw from those against repairs. As long as you maintain a car/truck within specifications (and there is no reason to deviate due to BMWs included service), that risk is low but the reality is that there is still some risk that was not outlined in the overview. It's not as simple as "storing/tying up your cash" as others not familiar with the process may have perceived from the outline.

ard 11-15-2012 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndabunka (Post 7197125)
Only thing wrong here is "DESTINATION/DELIVERY". It is included in EVERY invoice I have seen.

Whelp, when I have seen printouts from dealerspeed.net, or other confidential wholesale pricing pages, there is an "MSRP" amount and an "invoice" amount for every single line item. And none of those 'include' delivery. Yes, some of the online services will add it for you. Maybe they all do. But there are other sources for "invoice' price.:angel:

The base car has an invoice price, as does each option and package. At the end, you you add the other items- delivery, maco (if applicable) and training (if applicable).

So anyway, just know what IS and IS NOT in your version of 'invoice'.

:thumbup:


A


PS note that when a dealer sells a car at MSRP they are paying all these items out of their profit...but when you cut a deal for "500 over" given that these changes need to be paid, it is therefore appropriate to add them to the invoice/cost.... just FYI to newbs

Marwan 11-15-2012 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndabunka (Post 7197139)
One thing that should be noted but was not covered by Marwan is that there ARE some risks with multiple MSDs. Security deposits are just that... deposits as security. At the end of the lease, the dealership can draw from those against repairs. As long as you maintain a car/truck within specifications (and there is no reason to deviate due to BMWs included service), that risk is low but the reality is that there is still some risk that was not outlined in the overview. It's not as simple as "storing/tying up your cash" as others not familiar with the process may have perceived from the outline.

I agree that such a risk is present with any security money one deposits and that the risk of this money being tapped into is low.

I might add, however, that if a dealer really wants your business they will not touch your MSD money. When I returned my first X5d to the dealer, it had a windshield in need of replacement, tires in need of replacement, about 4000 excess miles, and two more monthly payments due. Of course, I was leasing another X5d from that dealership. Did they just roll these costs up in my new lease? I don't see how, since they got about $1000 over invoice (minus eco, loyalty etc.). The windshield ($600) and tires ($1200) alone come up to more than that. The amount the dealer took out of my MSD money: zero dollars.


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