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-   -   Winter Wheel Change-Over (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658138)

mkonkolowicz 11-14-2012 08:46 AM

Winter Wheel Change-Over
 
Hey Guys,

I'm planning to swap my wheels (summer 18s ) for the winter (winter tire equipped 17s) on my 2008 328xi coupe this weekend. I've changed wheels many times before (specifically on my old 2008 civic coupe), but just wondering if there's anything BMW specific that I should watch out for when doing this?

Thanks in advance,
Maciek

tturedraider 11-14-2012 08:56 AM

It's pretty standard. BMWs have lug bolts, not lug nuts. So, when you remove them there are no bolts supporting the wheels. There is a small lip on the hub that will keep the wheel from just dropping off. Putting the wheels on is slightly more challenging, because you have to get the holes lined up accurately.

floydarogers 11-14-2012 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkonkolowicz (Post 7194288)
I'm planning to swap my wheels (summer 18s ) for the winter (winter tire equipped 17s) on my 2008 328xi coupe this weekend. I've changed wheels many times before (specifically on my old 2008 civic coupe), but just wondering if there's anything BMW specific that I should watch out for when doing this?

Be sure to use anti-seize compound on the lug bolts AND the hub, otherwise you won't get the bolts out easily, and corrosion can cause the wheel to lock itself to the hub.

If you're using an impact wrench, 1) make sure the bolt is well started before spinning them in (so you don't cross-thread them), and 2) torque them correctly.

SD Z4MR 11-14-2012 11:26 AM

When you jack up your car be sure to use the BMW specified jacking points, which are small rectangular-shaped rubber blocks that are located on the underbody near the wheel well openings. They are actually hollow are are designed to receive special jack pad adapters. These adapters are available at ECS Tuning, Turner Motorsports, Burger Motorsports, and BavAuto. You only need one unless you put the car on jack stands in which case you'll either need two or four, but this shouldn't be necessary. With a floor jack you can easily jack up the entire side of the car using either the front or rear jacking location.

BMW uses hub-centric wheels, which is that small lip on the hub that tturedraider mentioned. With this design, BMW wheels have a tendency to rust onto the hubs. If you remove all five lug bolts and the wheel doesn't budge, you'll have to resort to more physical measures. You can use a rubber mallet, but you may have to resort to sitting on your butt on the ground facing the wheel, with one foot on either side of the tire. Just start alternately pushing with your feet until you break the wheel free. This usually works for me. If it's really stuck, put all the lug nuts back on but leave them a half turn loose. Let the car down and manually push the car back and forth until the wheel loosens.

As floydrogers indicates, use anti-seize compound before you re-install the wheels which will help alleviate the tendency for the wheel to rust onto the hub. Apply it around the hub centric ring and on the surface of the hub between the lug holes where it mates with the wheel. I don't use it on the lug bolts.

When putting the wheel back on the car you can make things a little easier by using a wheel hanger. This is a 6"-8" threaded rod that screws into the top lug hole in the hub and allows you to "hang" the wheel on the hub through one of the lug holes while you get the other lug bolts threaded in. When you have the other four lug nuts installed, remove the wheel hanger and insert the last lug bolt. You can find these at the vendors I mentioned above.

galahad05 11-14-2012 04:06 PM

Don't put anti-seize on the bolts. This is just my opinion, of course. But doing so basically throws any targeted torque-specs for tightening the bolts right out the window. 88 foot-pounds is for dry bolt threads.

If you just sort of torque it down tight but not to any particular torque value, then anti-seize won't matter much (unless you use an impact wrench!).

Squidget 11-15-2012 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galahad05 (Post 7195324)
If you just sort of torque it down tight but not to any particular torque value, then anti-seize won't matter much (unless you use an impact wrench!).

I've also heard people argue that you should should only use impact wrenches to get bolts off. Always use a hand torque wrench to put bolts on. You are less likely to mangle something that way. I guess it really depends on how much you trust yourself. shrug.

pointandgo 11-15-2012 05:18 PM

As a curiosity, is anyone using the TPMS with the winter steel wheels? I don't see that they would fit properly, not to mention the initiation of galvanic corrosion depending on how long they were installed (steel/aluminum). So everyone just tolerates the TPMS warning icons?

Signed,
- California Boy

Rainman519 11-16-2012 10:49 AM

Make sure to get a wheel stud alignment tool. Got mine from bavauto.com for about $12.00. You screw it into the lug bolt hole and then put the wheel over it to align the holes. Beats the heck out of trying to hold the wheel and insert a bolt. Makes the job much easier.

Rainman519 11-16-2012 10:51 AM

P&G - my winter set-up has TPMS installed. Once I install my winters, I drive around the block and the system "learns" the new sensors. No lights, no problems.

///M-ratedE90 11-16-2012 11:05 AM

Don't anti-seize the lug nuts...anti-seize the hub lip and plate. The given torque is a "dry" torque based on metal-metal contact. If you lube them and tighten them, you run the risk of stretching the lugnut to get the correct torque value...and also lubricating their 'early release' too.

Also, hand thread the lugnuts to prevent cross threading. After doing hand-tight, I use an impact wrench to gently torque them before dropping the car and torqueing to the correct value.

mossman35 11-16-2012 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainman519 (Post 7198537)
Make sure to get a wheel stud alignment tool. Got mine from bavauto.com for about $12.00. You screw it into the lug bolt hole and then put the wheel over it to align the holes. Beats the heck out of trying to hold the wheel and insert a bolt. Makes the job much easier.

I agree 100%!!!! Best money I ever spent.

As a side note, my 2001 Audi had the same lug bolts. That car came with a plastic version of of this. Snapped that at least once. :rofl:

Orient330iNYC 11-16-2012 02:37 PM

DO NOT ANTISEIZE THE BOLTS
http://www.rogueengineering.com/mm5/...o_bolt_900.jpg

i have a dewalt 18V impact wrench to speed things up. http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-Bare-To...eywords=dw059H

i can finish a swap in 20 minutes with that, if i use two jacks to lift one side at a time (you can actually use 1 at the rear jack point, but i cannot recommend doing this) :angel:
i put a quick swipe of antiseize on the centerbore of the wheel, nowhere else, never had an issue getting the wheels off.
finish off the job by torquing the lugs to 88 ft/lbs, then retorquing a few hundred miles later. my personal favorite torque wrench is a split beam one.
http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Inst...+torque+wrench

Bob Shiftright 11-16-2012 08:52 PM

1. +1 on the wheel hanger. The runflats are heavy.

2. The rear jacking point will lift both front and rear wheels on one side.

3. Use jack stands!!!!

floydarogers 12-10-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC (Post 7198894)
DO NOT ANTISEIZE THE BOLTS...

There were some others advocating this, so I'm not really picking on Orient. Nevertheless, this is what Mike Miller says on the subject (Roundel, August 2012 page 109):

"Clean your lug bolts, too; ... wire wheel on bench grinder. Apply a THIN coat of anti-seize compount, mount the wheels, and torque the lug bolts to BMW specs. (Comment on change to torque spec to 140nm +- 10 nm (103.3ft-lb +- 7.38 ft-lb) for all M14 thread, for M12 thread 120+-10 nm(103.3+-7.38 ft lb)
...
Note to people who think torque specs should change where anti-seize is used: hold your letters, because I'm not buying a word of it. And I really mean hold your letters - I've been installing wheels the same way for 25 years with nothing but the expected results. Debate amoung yourselves; we who work on our cars trust the emperical evidence before our eyes.

Note to people who think anti-seize should not be used on lug bolts: Hold your letters, too. Come spend a winter in the Northeast withoput anti-seize on your lug bolts and then try to get them off in the Spring using the tool in the trunk. Empirical evidence wins again
."

On this subject, I go with Miller (on some others, I don't). Please note that the liquid calcium chloride de-icer they use now is worse than salt for corrosion, IMO.

Orient330iNYC 12-10-2012 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floydarogers (Post 7241408)
There were some others advocating this, so I'm not really picking on Orient. Nevertheless, this is what Mike Miller says on the subject (Roundel, August 2012 page 109):

"Clean your lug bolts, too; ... wire wheel on bench grinder. Apply a THIN coat of anti-seize compount, mount the wheels, and torque the lug bolts to BMW specs. (Comment on change to torque spec to 140nm +- 10 nm (103.3ft-lb +- 7.38 ft-lb) for all M14 thread, for M12 thread 120+-10 nm(103.3+-7.38 ft lb)
...
Note to people who think torque specs should change where anti-seize is used: hold your letters, because I'm not buying a word of it. And I really mean hold your letters - I've been installing wheels the same way for 25 years with nothing but the expected results. Debate amoung yourselves; we who work on our cars trust the emperical evidence before our eyes.

Note to people who think anti-seize should not be used on lug bolts: Hold your letters, too. Come spend a winter in the Northeast withoput anti-seize on your lug bolts and then try to get them off in the Spring using the tool in the trunk. Empirical evidence wins again
."

On this subject, I go with Miller (on some others, I don't). Please note that the liquid calcium chloride de-icer they use now is worse than salt for corrosion, IMO.

in the past 12 years of bmw ownership and living in the north east, i have never had a problem getting lugs off with dry threads if properly torqued. with hand tools.

BTW, 120nm is 89ft/lbs, not 103... the M12 torque spec has not changed. bmw has switched to 19mm head M14X1.25 bolts for the F30. those need to be torqued to 140nm

we can agree to disagree, but...
1) the torque values listed by the mfr are for "clean and dry" threads
2) lubricated threads will read lower torque for a given clamping spec vs dry threads

vst335is 12-10-2012 03:41 PM

Here too, TPMS installed and turn on the car and no warning signs, didn't have to drive at all

pointandgo 12-10-2012 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC (Post 7241448)
in the past 12 years of bmw ownership and living in the north east, i have never had a problem getting lugs off with dry threads if properly torqued. with hand tools.

BTW, 120nm is 89ft/lbs, not 103... the M12 torque spec has not changed. bmw has switched to 19mm head M14X1.25 bolts for the F30. those need to be torqued to 140nm

we can agree to disagree, but...
1) the torque values listed by the mfr are for "clean and dry" threads
2) lubricated threads will read lower torque for a given clamping spec vs dry threads

Agree 100%...NO anti-seize or lube of any kind. A good wire brushing in the Spring to remove corrosion on the threads, all mating parts. Torque to recommended specs (why isn't this in the owner's manual :mad:).

Alarbus 12-10-2012 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pointandgo (Post 7241567)
Agree 100%...NO anti-seize or lube of any kind. A good wire brushing in the Spring to remove corrosion on the threads, all mating parts. Torque to recommended specs (why isn't this in the owner's manual :mad:).

Yup. I anti-seize the hub, but not the bolts. If swapping it at the end of winter, there won't be issues taking it off. Also, I don't use airtools, it's not really all that much work to do it by hand. I would like a lift though. :D

When I bought my 2006 a few years ago and went to put on snows, I got the bolt out, but the wheels chemically welded themselves to the hub. The dealer lifted it and used a bigass hammer to pop them free. I haven't had any issues since.

floydarogers 12-10-2012 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC (Post 7241448)
...BTW, 120nm is 89ft/lbs, not 103... the M12 torque spec has not changed....

I probably had a little trouble copying from the magazine...


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