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-   -   335d vs 1/335i (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658154)

8355adam 11-14-2012 10:28 AM

335d vs 1/335i
 
Looking to point my girlfriernd in the right direction when she comes to upgrading her 96' E36 when it reaches the 250k mark in a few months.

I have an E90 330i and love it. Since i will be able to drive her new car i've suggest to her to check out the 135i and the 335d.

so the question is what is more "fun to drive" and what is the better "performer"?

I know the diesel gives up some 0-6 vs gas model but is it noticeably slower given the torque? from all the stuff i've already read it seems to be a simple choice between power at the low end or the high end?

We both enjoy driving and lean towards performance orientated vehicles but practicaility, fuel economy, and cost are also on the list as things to consider.

lqaddict 11-14-2012 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8355adam (Post 7194563)
Looking to point my girlfriernd in the right direction when she comes to upgrading her 96' E36 when it reaches the 250k mark in a few months.

I have an E90 330i and love it. Since i will be able to drive her new car i've suggest to her to check out the 135i and the 335d.

so the question is what is more "fun to drive" and what is the better "performer"?

I know the diesel gives up some 0-6 vs gas model but is it noticeably slower given the torque? from all the stuff i've already read it seems to be a simple choice between power at the low end or the high end?

We both enjoy driving and lean towards performance orientated vehicles but practicaility, fuel economy, and cost are also on the list as things to consider.

Performance is in the eye of a beholder.
135i will outperform a 335d on the track, twisties, etc., but will be less practical if you need to haul some stuff while driving - so your call, or better yet your GF's call.
335d has torque, space and fuel economy over 135i, 135i has everything else over 335d.

8355adam 11-14-2012 10:41 AM

I have yet to get a satisfactory answer from google but what is more better for a sporty/acceleration standpoint - higher torque or higher HP?

tturedraider 11-14-2012 10:52 AM

Torque is what makes HP go. Both of these cars have plenty of low end torque. The 335d is an absolute beast! 425 lb-ft of torque at 1,200 rpms makes 265 HP feel more like 350 HP. The power just doesn't keep going as far up the rpm range as with the gas motor. But you'll be well north of any legal (or even reasonable) speed way before that becomes an issue.

jimmelo 11-14-2012 01:17 PM

I own a 335d so I'm a bit biased. But I took in my e46 for some repairs and they loaned me the 335d. I was just blown away, literally. The power is phenomenal. I looked at what my bill was going to be for my repairs, traded in the car and bought the 335d. I was that impressed.

In regards to your gf situation, I don't think you can really answer that question without going in and test driving both. If you still don't have a clear answer on the performance issue then look at all the other things that make a difference and decide on those concerns.

floydarogers 11-14-2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lqaddict (Post 7194577)
...335d has torque, space and fuel economy over 135i, 135i has everything else over 335d.

I would add that the 3-series has more "goodies" available (or were likely ordered with more): park distance, auto-dimming mirrors, etc. Many of the 1-series are more spartanly-equipped.

The 335d does a 1/4 mile in about 14.2s, 135i probably mid-13s or so. Part of the reason is the different gearing and changes - 335d has to shift before 60mph, 135i runs up to 70 or so. There's also the weight - the 335d sedan weighs at least a couple hundred lbs more than the smaller 1-series coupe.

But to tell you how fast a 335d is: if you are doing 50 and need to pass 2 cars or a semi, and floor it, you will be doing 90+ when you pull back in. The diesel is arguably better for those type of maneuvers, as HP doesn't come into play much in that scenario.

HP definitely comes into play at higher speeds, because HP is what combats wind resistance. It's also what helps you climb hills. The more HP you have, the more power you can expend per unit of time. Torque is how strong a push you get initially.

Pasa-d 11-14-2012 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lqaddict (Post 7194577)
Performance is in the eye of a beholder.
135i will outperform a 335d on the track, twisties, etc., but will be less practical if you need to haul some stuff while driving - so your call, or better yet your GF's call.
335d has torque, space and fuel economy over 135i, 135i has everything else over 335d.

That is a misconception. The 335d has no problem hanging with 135s and 335s on the track at anything below a race pace. You will need better tires and brakes to take advantage of the gas engine models on the track (or in the twisties).

CALWATERBOY 11-14-2012 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8355adam (Post 7194563)
Looking to point my girlfriernd in the right direction when she comes to upgrading her 96' E36 when it reaches the 250k mark in a few months.


Diesel's best for expected high milage.

If cash not a problem, wait for the diesel M4 - tri turbo - no problem at all dusting 335i's.

.

schnecharl 11-14-2012 06:37 PM

The 335d is an absolute beast![img]*****************ca3[/img]

tturedraider 11-14-2012 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY (Post 7195585)
Diesel's best for expected high milage.

If cash not a problem, wait for the diesel M4 - tri turbo - no problem at all dusting 335i's.

.

And when exactly do you think BMWNA is going to bring an ///M diesel to the U.S.? When is ///M going to build a diesel? CAL, have you been visiting Colorado in the last week? :confused:

Squidget 11-15-2012 06:36 PM

Pretty much agree with the forum consensus. 335d wins on low end torque and mileage; 135i is more tossable due to less weight; 335i is an all-rounder. And you get get gas anywhere, diesel is sometimes a pain.

But I'll comment that you don't need to get too hung up on HP vs. Tq. They are literally the same number with a different measurement system (HP = Tq * RPM).

(Purist note: simplifying here.)

It's really the shape of of the power curve that matters. At what revs does the engine deliver the power (expressed as HP)?

Usually people talking about Tq are talking about power at the LOW revs. AKA 0-60 drag racing power. Low-end torque is fun and easy to drive at low speed. Step on the pedal, even at low revs, and the car moves. You can't bog the car down. Remember HP = Tq * RPM. With enough Tq, even low revs give you good power.

Here's the catch. Big Tq requires big engines. Big engines explode if rotated very fast, so the rev limit is low. Big engines also lose Tq quickly at high revs. This means an engine tuned for low end Tq often have no power at the high end. This is why a tow truck can't go 200 miles an hour.

Instead, imagine a smaller engine that rotates much faster. Again, HP = Tq * RPM, so if there are enough revs we can get power that way. Thus, people talking about high HP are usually talking about power at high revs.

Cost being equal, high revving engines have higher max HP than big engines... but that power is harder to harness. Keeping an engine at high revs all the time takes skill and annoys your neighbors. Thus casual drivers like low-end Tq, to drive around town. Racecars drivers want more revs and more peak HP.

Turning to BMW specifically:

The 335d engine (M57) is a "big" engine. HP/Tq: 280/425. It has much more low-end torque, but can't deliver power above about 4500 RPM.

The 135i/335i engine (N54/N55) is balanced between big and high revs. HP/Tq: 300/300. It is well-rounded with good torque and good max revs (about 6000 RPM).

The diesel engine is a BLAST at lower speeds and city driving. The gasoline engine is a better track engine.

Oh, and the 335d only comes in automatic. That was the dealbreaker for me, I need my three pedals!

CALWATERBOY 11-16-2012 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider (Post 7195658)
And when exactly do you think BMWNA is going to bring an ///M diesel to the U.S.? When is ///M going to build a diesel? CAL, have you been visiting Colorado in the last week? :confused:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fteI0...yer_detailpage


When Obama's payment is received. With taxes going dramatically up, may be awhile, which may be a good thing as M div has no finished product for mfg, yet.

BMWTurboDzl 11-16-2012 06:57 AM

The N54/55 in the 35i cars runs out of air at 5k rpms and the diesel drops off just before that.

Depending on options 335i probably best bang for buck but beware of used cars since many have had aftermarket tunes installed which accelerate wear on engine and drivetrain. Same probably goes for used 135i. The 135i has same engine and drivetrain as 335/535i except with a shorter wheelbase
Consequently it's not significantly lighter than the 335i. Shorter wheelbase makes it "tossable" and more jumpy on poor roads. It's a trade off. For a daily driver with some spirited runs now and again the 335d tops out. The mantra that people buy HP but drive TQ holds true with the 335d.

Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App

gtobynj 03-05-2013 05:57 PM

I'm a bit late to this thread, but had to chime in. I owned an e46 M3, great car, but was like a scalpel and needed precision to get all the smiles per mile out of it. Then I moved to a final year production e39 M5 and became a torque junky - that car was like a club, swing it and it went, in any gear at pretty much any speed, floor it and you got that beautiful gorgeous thrust in your back - intoxicating! Drive the M3 gently and you could ring 30mpg out of her on the highway, the M5 was a thirsty girl no matter what, 23.5 was about the best I ever managed on cruise at 75. Having owned two of BMW's best, I went to the 335d. I hate the auto box. Apparently it was lifted from the X5 4.8 because of the torque, but I don't think any effort was made to reprogram it to take advantage of the torque characteristics of the d, but it is the only choice available for this clutch junky, so I live with it. Pop her in D and go, great car, great power and fabulous highway fuel economy for a vehicle that can embarrass most things out there. But if you really want to enjoy her, never use sport mode - complete waste of time, hangs on to gears far to long totally missing peak torque generation, no, put her in the mode I always assumed was a complete waste of time - Manual and shift her yourself to take best advantage of the torque curve - I have read of people getting 5.0 0-60 with no other mod - I've never timed her myself and it could be complete BS, but with a bit of practice you can learn how to produce the most glorious feeling of thrust shifting yourself that neither the M5 nor the M3 could manage. The 335d is without a shadow of a doubt, the best car I have ever owned despite containing the mechanical equivalent of the devils spawn IMHO - an f'ing torque converter.

CALWATERBOY 03-05-2013 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8355adam (Post 7194563)
Looking to point my girlfriernd in the right direction


Without reserve, I can tell you this: She'll like 328i response much more than 335i.

Reason? Unless right foot's carefully placed and applied, 335i has throttle lag. Notice I didn't say turbo lag....no....no. No lag w/with good foot position.

Fussy! Natural foot placement does lag. Trust me, she'll frown. Remember, always agree with her.....then, you can't be wrong.


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