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-   -   Snow.. Go i -or- xi? (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658263)

r0gue 11-14-2012 08:03 PM

Snow.. Go i -or- xi?
 
With the caveat that if I go xi, it would be with all seasons, and if I go i, I would definitely keep a set of wheels and winter treads.

I have an E46 now with winter tires that I mount up (Blizzaks) and I've always done fine with that. But as I'm ordering the F30, I get to pick my path. I had been leaning xi, but as I learned that the sport suspension is deleted from the sport builds if you get the xi, I've begun to contemplate sticking with the i. I have never had the sport suspension on a BMW as I've always gotten used and took what it came with.

I know if I get the xi, that I'd have to add the adaptive suspension for $1000 to tighten up the roll. I learned that on some test drives with adaptive and non-adaptive suspension. There's a difference. So it'd be a bit cheaper to go i with a separate set of wheels and tires.

Thanks for your help everybody. I'm excited. My 3rd BMW. My first new one.

gooer 11-14-2012 08:11 PM

after having a 330 3 series rear wheel drive, a lexus is-f with 19 inch sport tires, and living in north jersey.. I have learned my lesson. I am getting an xi. it's up to you.

alpinweiss 11-14-2012 08:18 PM

Living here in the desert, I bought the i version. But if I lived in PA (or elsewhere in the snow belt), I would get the Xi version. And despite your disclaimer, you can still buy snow tires if the AWD is not enough. Interestingly, the AWD will hold its value better than the RWD in the snowy north, so the effective cost is fairly low.

The alternative (if your budget will support it) is to get a dedicated winter truck or SUV, and park the 328i (or 335i) during the winter. Then you can order the sport suspension and summer-only tires for your F30.

:drive:

wayner44 11-14-2012 08:23 PM

Get the Xi, its like sex with a ribbed condom

itsmeAnuj 11-14-2012 08:37 PM

order with rwd and with the price difference, purchase snow/winter tires for the 6 days we get snow here in New Jersey. I personally feel rwd with winter tires will perform better than awd with all season. My S2000 has performed just fine the past 7 years I have owned it.

itsmeAnuj 11-14-2012 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner44 (Post 7195803)
Get the Xi, its like sex with a ribbed condom

rwd is like sex without a condom :p

tturedraider 11-14-2012 09:06 PM

Most Bimmerfesters with experience will tell you they'd rather have RWD with a proper set of winter tires any day of the week and that they have no trouble getting where they want to go with that set up. They'll also tell you they'd rather have RWD with winter tires than AWD with all seasons. Unless you routinely drive mountainous, snow packed roads a proper RWD 3er should work just fine for you and be more fun to drive when it's not winter.

boltjaM3s 11-14-2012 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0gue (Post 7195767)

Thanks for your help everybody. I'm excited. My 3rd BMW. My first new one.

First off, congrats.

Secondly, no matter AWD or RWD, you need dedicated snow tires, period. In the United States, AWD is really nothing more than an excuse for drivers to be less safe because they're too lazy to swap their tires out 2x a year. I know this firsthand, learned the hard way.

So, you're real question is: "Do I get dedicated snow tires on XDrive or do I get dedicated snow tires on RWD?"

And the answer is: "You live in a location where you're going to have snow maybe 10 out of 365 days, so you get RWD."

BJ

wayner44 11-14-2012 11:01 PM

Get the xi bro, belive me, the people that have went with xi regret that they did not do it earlier. I have read it so many times

sea6speed 11-14-2012 11:12 PM

It's a BMW. Get the "i" and buy a Subaru/Audi for snow days.

wayner44 11-14-2012 11:22 PM

No do not get rwd because its a bmw lol, get XI for the more planted to the road feeling, faster acceleration, better control in the rain and the snow. You do not need snow tires if you get the xi.

wayner44 11-14-2012 11:28 PM

"xDrive or RWD both have significant pros and cons (many have been mentioned in this thread), and it's basically a matter of personal preference. In general, this is how I would summarize things:

- If you want greater traction when accelerating on snow/ice/wet pavement and don't want to have to deal with switching out tires twice a year, get xDrive.

- If you want to save a little money on the car and gas and prefer the lowered ride height of RWD sport models, go for that. You should get some snow tires if you go this route though (or all-seasons at the very least)."

Thats from another thread.

no one knows how much gas xdrive actually waste but if you get xdrive and care about how a car handles, just know you need the dynamic handling package. This is because the xdrive sport line does NOT come with a sport suspension. It has a softer more comfort like suspension. Unless of course you get dynamic handling package

boltjaM3s 11-15-2012 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner44 (Post 7196018)
No do not get rwd because its a bmw lol, get XI for the more planted to the road feeling, faster acceleration, better control in the rain and the snow. You do not need snow tires if you get the xi.

You always need snow tires. No form of technology replaces the right rubber.

BJ

rtgirard 11-15-2012 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s (Post 7196243)
You always need snow tires. No form of technology replaces the right rubber.

BJ

I don't always agree with BJ, but when I do, it's usually on the topic of snow tires. Drive safely, my friends. ;)

Orient330iNYC 11-15-2012 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayner44 (Post 7196022)
"xDrive or RWD both have significant pros and cons (many have been mentioned in this thread), and it's basically a matter of personal preference. In general, this is how I would summarize things:

- If you want greater traction when accelerating on snow/ice/wet pavement and don't want to have to deal with switching out tires twice a year, get xDrive.

- If you want to save a little money on the car and gas and prefer the lowered ride height of RWD sport models, go for that. You should get some snow tires if you go this route though (or all-seasons at the very least)."

Thats from another thread.

no one knows how much gas xdrive actually waste but if you get xdrive and care about how a car handles, just know you need the dynamic handling package. This is because the xdrive sport line does NOT come with a sport suspension. It has a softer more comfort like suspension. Unless of course you get dynamic handling package

i invite you to try driving in snow with Xdrive and summer performance tires.
i also invite you to explain how xdrive helps braking.

you still should run snow tires-- all season tires are mediocre in all conditions, master of none. max performance summer tires and performance snows give you the best traction in their respective conditions.
http://www.discounttiredirect.com/di...etyBelow45.jsp


for the record i have had both. my 01 was a RWD. ran max perf summer tires, and snows
my S60R was awd, i tried the AWD + A/S route, it was terrible. soft sloppy tires in the summer, and so so grip in the snow. tossed that setup after a few months.
07 was RWD and swapped tires. never got stuck
2010 is awd. hate the ride height increase. still swapped tires
2013 will be rear wheel drive and 6MT

sunny5280 11-15-2012 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0gue (Post 7195767)
With the caveat that if I go xi, it would be with all seasons, and if I go i, I would definitely keep a set of wheels and winter treads.

I have an E46 now with winter tires that I mount up (Blizzaks) and I've always done fine with that. But as I'm ordering the F30, I get to pick my path. I had been leaning xi, but as I learned that the sport suspension is deleted from the sport builds if you get the xi, I've begun to contemplate sticking with the i. I have never had the sport suspension on a BMW as I've always gotten used and took what it came with.

I know if I get the xi, that I'd have to add the adaptive suspension for $1000 to tighten up the roll. I learned that on some test drives with adaptive and non-adaptive suspension. There's a difference. So it'd be a bit cheaper to go i with a separate set of wheels and tires.

Thanks for your help everybody. I'm excited. My 3rd BMW. My first new one.

Unless you have a specific reason to go RWD I would recommend the AWD. The AWD car, despite lacking the sport suspension, will give most drivers 99% of the fun offered by the RWD. The design of the AWD system is such that, under normal conditions, more power is delivered to the rear wheels thus providing the RWD feel. Likewise few people can push either car to their limits.

bimmerdiesel 11-15-2012 07:52 AM

I personally like sports suspension, low ride height and staggered look. Well drive comfort is less but new F30 should solve it with adaptive suspension. If you live in area where you dont get lot of snow then I dont see reason to get xi. Those few days you can use alternate transportation.

Quinn Lasser 11-15-2012 08:11 AM

I've had three BMW's all with X drive. We live in the Chicago area and get a fair amount of snow even though the last few years have been milder. We leave the all weather tires on and it hasn't been an issue. For really big snows we drive the Jeep. Easy Peasy.:)

larrydrums 11-15-2012 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider (Post 7195888)
Most Bimmerfesters with experience will tell you they'd rather have RWD with a proper set of winter tires any day of the week and that they have no trouble getting where they want to go with that set up. They'll also tell you they'd rather have RWD with winter tires than AWD with all seasons. Unless you routinely drive mountainous, snow packed roads a proper RWD 3er should work just fine for you and be more fun to drive when it's not winter.

This is exactly why I chose RWD and a separate winter tire/wheel set. I think a key consideration is the terrain where you drive most? Here in Chicagoland - it is mostly flat. My RWD Infiniti G35 wBlizzaks got me around just fine over the past 5 years and I expect my 335i with Dunlop Wintersports will do even better. And when it isn't winter, my RWD w summer tires is more fun to drive than AWD w all-seasons.

If I lived in Vermont and drove to ski areas alot in hilly terrain and frequent snow, I would have made a different choice.

Net - there is no right answer other than the one that meets your specific needs.

The X Men 11-15-2012 08:40 AM

There is a reason why most of the BMW sold in the Northeast US are AWD, unless you track your BMW, the advantage of a RWD will not be notice on a public road. The BMW i-drive is not your typical 4X4 from 20 years ago. These BMW with i-drives are dsign for high performance and it is RWD bias.

golovko 11-15-2012 09:10 AM

Get xDrive with snow tires. There is no better combination. RWD in snow no matter the tires is not as good as AWD with snow tires no matter what some bimmerfesters will have you believe. I've driven on unplowed roads and highways in an AWD sedan on snow tires with no problems, your only obstacle is ground clearance in that case.

If you get significant snow fall every year go with xDrive, if you live in an area that shuts down over flurries (as I do) go with RWD.

jatbeni 11-15-2012 09:32 AM

The reason why the snow belt sells so many X-Drives is that over the years, Audi's marketing (and Subaru - in the non-luxury segment) has done a number on the customers and scared them into believing that X-Drive is safer in the winter. Not! I would argue that it is more dangerous - it gives the drivers a false sense of security, and makes them lazy. I would also argue that BMW (and Mercedes) after years of trying to push back, have been forced down this road.

As @Orient330iNYC has asked - how does 4WD make is better when you hit the brakes? How does it help you in panic stops? How does it make it better when you are skidding around a bend (a turn that you took too fast in the mistaken belief that your 4WD added some superhuman capabilities to your driving)? Surely - 4WD with winter rubber could be the best option, but then it is the best PERFORMANCE option. I am pretty sure it would do no better than a RWD under braking.

4WD is a performance option - it helps you take off from a stop light faster for sure, but then it adds weight and alters the driving characteristics (negatively, for some of us). So that is a different debate, quite separate from the intent of the OP.

Another point - if the OP is getting an automatic, I would recommend the XI - not because it is any better, but because it goes with the ethos of convenience (changing tires twice a year can be inconvenient), and when it comes time to resell, it will be easier (since the average buyer is misinformed). On the other hand, if the OP were getting a manual, I would recommend the RWD - with winter rubber (the OP shows the intent to work at his driving, and the slight inconvenience of changing rubber twice a year should be acceptable).

kpgray 11-15-2012 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jatbeni (Post 7196652)
..... I would argue that it is more dangerous - it gives the drivers a false sense of security.....

As @Orient330iNYC has asked - how does 4WD make is better when you hit the brakes? How does it help you in panic stops? How does it make it better when you are skidding around a bend (a turn that you took too fast in the mistaken belief that your 4WD added some superhuman capabilities to your driving)? Surely - 4WD with winter rubber could be the best option, but then it is the best PERFORMANCE option. I am pretty sure it would do no better than a RWD under braking.

I agree that AWD can give a sence of security, having owned AWD SUVs in the past, I would use the AWD half a dozen times a year and you do NOT stop faster!?!
When I owned a Convertible, I would have drove with the top down a LOT more than I would ever use the AWD:).

That being said, I bought an AWD for a daily driver to help in the Michigan winters. I can recall many times having to get out and help push my car, or not being able to get up my driveway, or take running starts to get up an incline (it is also cold and dangerous if you get stuck). Furthermore, the extra 1/2" of ground clearance may make the car a little top heavy (oh purists do not get mad :angel:), but on those days of over 6 inches of snowfall, that can be the difference of not getting stuck. I think the XI is such a practical comprimize, the comfort, mileage, drivablity of a sedan with the AWD atributes of an SUV! I see you live in PA and those rolling hills can get nasty.

On the other hand, during the other 359 days a year, the adaptive suspension on a RWD and a 1/2" lower would be sweet on those mountains...

samualcc 11-15-2012 10:13 AM

AWD should be judged simply on the merits of take off in snow, and some icy conditions. That is it. If anyone tells you that it some how improves your traction at speed, while braking, or taking a turn is misinformed.

RWD with snow tires is more than sufficient. Check out this very informative tire rack demonstration of all season tires vs proper winter tires.

http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=23

The X Men 11-15-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jatbeni (Post 7196652)
The reason why the snow belt sells so many X-Drives is that over the years, Audi's marketing (and Subaru - in the non-luxury segment) has done a number on the customers and scared them into believing that X-Drive is safer in the winter. Not! I would argue that it is more dangerous - it gives the drivers a false sense of security, and makes them lazy. I would also argue that BMW (and Mercedes) after years of trying to push back, have been forced down this road.

I guess that really depends on the driver, if someone dont know how to drive in the snow with AWD, chances are, they are a really bad driver with a RWD car in the snow as well. In a experience driver's hands, AWD is a very good safety feature in the wintertime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jatbeni (Post 7196652)
how does 4WD make is better when you hit the brakes? How does it help you in panic stops? How does it make it better when you are skidding around a bend

So let me ask you this, how does RWD better when you hit the brakes? How does it help you in panic stops? How does RWD make it better when you are skidding around a bend? You are taking about the benefit of snow tires, not RWD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jatbeni (Post 7196652)
Another point - if the OP is getting an automatic, I would recommend the XI - not because it is any better, but because it goes with the ethos of convenience (changing tires twice a year can be inconvenient), and when it comes time to resell, it will be easier (since the average buyer is misinformed). On the other hand, if the OP were getting a manual, I would recommend the RWD - with winter rubber (the OP shows the intent to work at his driving, and the slight inconvenience of changing rubber twice a year should be acceptable).

To continue with your train of thought, anyone who get RWD should not only have a stick shift, but perhaps they should get the manual window cranks, no power lock, no comfort access, no auto wiper or headlights and basically no convenient features what so ever :)


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