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-   -   Engine smoking issue (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658587)

e66fan 11-16-2012 02:05 PM

Engine smoking issue
 
Hello, I'm new to this forum...it appears that there are many members that know quite a bit about the cars we drive.

I own a 2006 750iL with 118,000. I took the car to get it smog checked and the car was runing great, no smoke or any other issues. When the smog technitian put the car on the dyno and reved up the engine to run the smog test and once he stoped the reving of the engine, I noticed a cloud of smoke that came out of the tail pipe.

Since then, I have noticed that the car will release a cloud of somoke every once in a while. It doesn't do it constantly, it happens every once in a while. Since this began happening, I have noticed that the car oil level drops and I have to add a quart of oil at least every 3 weeks.

I took the car to the dealer and they told me that the problem has to do with the "Engine Valves Guides". They said that these cars, once the mileage reaches 100K, that the engine heads need to be repaired.

My question is, has anyone out there experienced this type of problem with smoking and engine oil loss? Any idea what needs to be done? Is the dealer telling me the truth?

Please advise.

Thanks!

csmeance 11-16-2012 02:33 PM

It's a pretty common issue and it's well known here. There are these seals called the Valve Stem Seals and they end up going bad and you start burning oil and seeing the "puff of white smoke". Replacing them can be troublesome but a lot of independent places can do it as well.

e66fan 11-16-2012 03:20 PM

Thanks for the reply...I will look into a local shop in the L.A. area that is affordable. Dealer price is crazy!

Rookie2008 11-16-2012 03:47 PM

E66 fan where in L.A are you?

cmpcpro 11-16-2012 04:26 PM

All the engines out there that run to 200k plus and the dealer says, Oh yes, after 100k the heads have to be repaired.. sorry, I own an E65 too, but that makes me feel like my motor is junk and I am at 130k with no smoke after 20min idle..

csmeance 11-16-2012 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmpcpro (Post 7199064)
All the engines out there that run to 200k plus and the dealer says, Oh yes, after 100k the heads have to be repaired.. sorry, I own an E65 too, but that makes me feel like my motor is junk and I am at 130k with no smoke after 20min idle..

The big thing is that these valve stem seals are going because of the EXTENDED 15K mile oil changes that people were doing in 2002-2005 with ****ty oil! The oil BMW uses got better over time to actually last that long without an issue!

Rookie2008 11-16-2012 06:11 PM

I don't think there is any definitive answer for valve stem wear. There seems to be speculations that the cause is from extended oil changes etc.. which has yet to be proven. I beg to differ on that note. BMW just simply made a bad design of the N62 engine.

outlawd94cobra 11-22-2012 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e66fan (Post 7198848)
I own a 2006 750iL with 118,000. I took the car to get it smog checked and the car was runing great, no smoke or any other issues. When the smog technitian put the car on the dyno and reved up the engine to run the smog test and once he stoped the reving of the engine, I noticed a cloud of smoke that came out of the tail pipe.

So my question is, did you pass smog? If so, would you mind posting the readings? Just curious to see what the levels are with the smoke problem.

BMWbill7 01-20-2013 06:38 PM

RE: White Smoke at idle
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by e66fan (Post 7198848)
Hello, I'm new to this forum...it appears that there are many members that know quite a bit about the cars we drive.

I own a 2006 750iL with 118,000. I took the car to get it smog checked and the car was runing great, no smoke or any other issues. When the smog technitian put the car on the dyno and reved up the engine to run the smog test and once he stoped the reving of the engine, I noticed a cloud of smoke that came out of the tail pipe.

Since then, I have noticed that the car will release a cloud of somoke every once in a while. It doesn't do it constantly, it happens every once in a while. Since this began happening, I have noticed that the car oil level drops and I have to add a quart of oil at least every 3 weeks.

I took the car to the dealer and they told me that the problem has to do with the "Engine Valves Guides". They said that these cars, once the mileage reaches 100K, that the engine heads need to be repaired.

My question is, has anyone out there experienced this type of problem with smoking and engine oil loss? Any idea what needs to be done? Is the dealer telling me the truth?

Please advise.

Thanks!

Hello. I'm in Atlanta area, have a 2003 BMW 745Li with only 82k that I love, and owe on...haha. Experiencing the white smoke at idle issue, yes, I know, its the Valve Stem Seals passing oil thru the exhaust.
So...after conferring with my mechanic associates (I'm in the car biz) and reading these informative posts, I have found the 'Dirty Little secret #745' of the BMW shop manual.
As a good handfull of 7 Series owners have related, they're had the Valve Stem Seals replaced by BMW dealerships at anywhere from $4800. to $6500.. am I correct, posters?
I'm certain thats a thorough process...removing the entire engine, pulling the heads, all to replace these little Seal rings. Sounded too bad to be true. Especially in my case, as there are no other leaks or issues.
Well, there is another workaround, please correct or confirm if you're truly knowlegeable. An Indy or off-the-clock BMW tech can use compressed air (using a hose & fitting threaded for the spark plug hole) to bring up the valve stems so they're accessable, and they pull each one and replace, without removing the heads or the engine. See KeifR's Excellent Flickr Photo detail of the process...awesome pics. According to my sources, the replacement seals are superior to the Original ones, anyone know if that's a fact? I've seen the compressed air fitting, I have a former BMW Shop tech who confirms that this is the 'workaround', and he can perform it in 8-10 hours at his home shop, as opposed to 40-50 BMW Shop Labor Hours. we're talking less than $1000. as opposed to over $4500. I am going to let him do it and promise to post my results here for everyone to read. Feel free to correct or confirm, or tell the Forum that I dont know what the hell I am talking about, haha, I'm sure you all will! But, I've done my homework, and I must try it, don't have $5000. to invest in the issue, anyway. Good luck to all, feel free to message me for info. Thanks

Stephen Max 01-21-2013 11:42 AM

Yes, replacing valve seals with the head on the engine is a well-known and time honored procedure. I am going to do mine myself sometime this spring.

Rahulk 01-21-2013 12:28 PM

How many People have actually had the Valve Stem Seals Changed? I have seen 1 DYI on here, but I think it is a common job on this car? Maybe 20% of engines over 100K miles.

Here are the symptoms (I have it too)

No problem at start up.
After car has warmed up, it produces a big puff of smoke after idling for a few minutes.
(Mine just produces the smoke from the driver side exhaust only.... (Is this the common, or do people see it on both sides?))

Repairs I have done.
Lower Oil Pan gasket
Both valve covers with upper timing covers
Alternator gasket
Vacuum Pump
Crank Case Valves PCV, and new hoses
(I also tried to pour Seafoam into the crankcase PCV, did nothing)

$1000 for this repair job is a deal!!! Most shops dont even want to talk about the work around, anyone know where to get a loaner cam adjusting tool set?

crystalgalaz 01-21-2013 02:21 PM

help
 
I HAVE A 2002 BMW 745Li AND MY BMW STARTS SMOKING IF I LEAVE IT ON FOR LIKE THREE TO FIVE MINUTES OR SOMETIMES EVEN AT A STOP LIGHT, IS THERE ANYONE WHO CAN TELL ME WHERE CAN I GET THIS FIXED IN GLENDALE ARIZONA ?

cmpcpro 01-21-2013 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Max (Post 7327694)
Yes, replacing valve seals with the head on the engine is a well-known and time honored procedure. I am going to do mine myself sometime this spring.

Agreed.

I have 132k on my 03 745i and no smoke ever.. to me that means someone has already fixed this issue, correct? I don't see how they could be original..

Robz_745 01-21-2013 11:44 PM

1000 bucks is a great deal as long as your guy knows what he's doing. 10 hours seems a bit optimistic though. I did the stem seals myself (not a mechanic) and there is a lot of parts to come off, steps to follow, curse words to say, parts to clean, seals to replace..... Just saying, 10 hours would be very fast if possible.
My0.02

Rahulk 01-22-2013 05:28 AM

Robz, what is your smoking issue? From both exhausts?

Stephen Max 01-22-2013 07:43 AM

Rahulk, the 545i, 645i and 745i muffler has a valve that closes off one side. At a certain rpm or load level (not sure exactly) the valve opens up and allows exhaust to flow through both pipes. So at idle, it is normal for exhaust to come out only one pipe. The fact that you are getting a puff of smoke after idling for a time is an indication of worn seals.

Rahulk 01-22-2013 08:14 AM

Oh man so it is both sides, not just one cylinder head.... I thought I could get away with just replacing one cylinder bank's seals.

Robz_745 01-22-2013 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahulk (Post 7329260)
Robz, what is your smoking issue? From both exhausts?

Mine was smoke after idling a bit (3+ mins) then accelerate.

Why would you consider doing only 1 side?

FUKJDM 01-22-2013 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalgalaz (Post 7328000)
I HAVE A 2002 BMW 745Li AND MY BMW STARTS SMOKING IF I LEAVE IT ON FOR LIKE THREE TO FIVE MINUTES OR SOMETIMES EVEN AT A STOP LIGHT, IS THERE ANYONE WHO CAN TELL ME WHERE CAN I GET THIS FIXED IN GLENDALE ARIZONA ?

If you do find one, please share! have an 04 with 116k with the same issue.

btw: To those that have had this issue or are having this issue, will driving the car continuously be a bad idea? will it cause any kind of damage to the motor or cause more issues?

Rahulk 01-22-2013 05:00 PM

Robz - I forgot about the exhaust switch... And I thought it was only 1 side.

I'll tackle the issue later this year for sure, on a difficulty scale, I'd rank it a 5, doable with the right tools. But there are major risk if done wrong... Dropping parts into the engine, bending valves etc...

Another question, anyone overheat their engine? Usually that is what causes the stem seals to go bad... And from what I have heard, the water pump lasts a long time in this car, like 150k... Or so...

tazman30338 01-31-2013 09:46 AM

Did you have this done? Did it work? I am in the same position/condition. I just tied the oil change to Mobil 1 0w40 and Lucas Stop Leak. After about a week there is very little smoke.

Rahulk 01-31-2013 11:31 AM

How common of a problem is this... And can the job be done with the heads on, on a X5? I got the same problem... The worst thing is I had the valve covers and the upper timing covers replaced last year... An right after the tech told me that the valve stems were fried... I was like, why did you tell me in advance! I would have paid the extra to get the stems replaced too... I'm almost thinking that it should be changed when the valve covers are removed as a preventative measure...

bmwoem1 01-31-2013 11:49 AM

The dealer probably would have wanted an extra 6k to do the job

bmwoem1 01-31-2013 11:54 AM

It can be done with the heads on in an x5 also, it doesn't matter what car it is. I'd say about 30% of the higher mileage (70k and more) have this issue. It's also just as common on the n62tu

Snowwhite750 01-31-2013 06:46 PM

I had a problem with mine smoking during long idles but would clear out when I pull off. I took it to the shop and was told that my Valve Seals were Bad and I had Numerous leaks. Thanks to the Warranty I fussed about paid 6,500 for the repairs and I paid 100.00 out of my pockets


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