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-   -   Rear brake pad compliment to OEM front (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659943)

gomolka30 11-23-2012 04:19 PM

Rear brake pad compliment to OEM front
 
So I checked the brakes for the first time on my 3 week old purchase, and I found the rear pads to only have about 1mm remaining (or less!). The fronts are still substantially chunky, so I won't bother with them, and I suspect them to be OEM Jurids due to the bite and dust factors.

My question is, assuming the fronts are OEM, what brand would be a good compliment to the fronts? I know Textar would be the first choice (if available). Basically I would not want the friction to be substantially more or less than the Textars, and I would preferably lean towards a pad that is the most rotor friendly. Dust is not a concern of mine.

If I were to replace pads at all 4 wheels at once, I would go with the Akebonos, but since I am only doing the rears, I wonder if the Akes would create a front/rear bias.

How about the PBR D1334D? They have them at FCPEuro for only $36. Does anyone know the friction rating? and the type of compound used?

moots 11-23-2012 08:02 PM

textars or jurids will do fine for the rears.they take 30% of the braking forces.generally will last 3 times longer,dust 3 times less and the discs will last 3 times longer than the fronts....

if it was for the fronts i wud go dustless pads......

bluebee 11-23-2012 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomolka30 (Post 7210485)
I wonder if the Akes would create a front/rear bias

- What friction grade (e.g., EE, FF, EF, etc.) is recommended for BMW E39 brake pads (1) (2)
  • Jurid 187 (front) = FF
  • Textar T4071 (rear) = FF
  • Akebono Euro Ultra Premium Ceramic = GG
Given those ratings, you may be right - the Akeobonos just might grab differentially differently than the OEM pads.

gomolka30 11-24-2012 12:49 AM

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of time to be picky about this decision. Worst case scenario, I will get the Pro Stop brand from Pep Boys. The sales associate there told me that they were manufactured by Raybestos, are semi-metallic, and I saw an FF rating. If I can find an organic compound with an FF rating at NAPA I'll get those instead. There are also some cheap Duralast pads at Autozone. Ordering online is no longer an option.

It's more important that I get pads (any pads) before I score up my rotors.

gomolka30 11-24-2012 02:46 PM

UGH, I just want to vent for a minute.

So the Pep Boys sales associate was correct about all of the specs on the pads. Only one thing, he quoted me at $47 for the set, which on a normal day is the correct price. He didn't inform me that these pads were on black friday sale for $10.99 at that time. So I go back in today to get the pads and learn about the sale, which was yesterday!!!

If he told me about the sale price I would have bought the limit, you know, just in case...... At that price, why not?

It aint the end of the world, but wouldn't you like an extra $40 in your pocket?

gomolka30 11-25-2012 02:02 PM

First impressions on the Pro Stop pads, the fit is not as precise as the Textars that were there before. The backing clip that holds the inside of the rear piston is not nearly as strong and the clips did not fit the piston diameter. They were too small. In hindsight I should have bent them outward for better contact. The pad backing plate also was less precise and the friction material contact area appeared to be slightly smaller than the Textars as well.

Overall, the fit of the pads were just a little bit sloppy, but it doesn't appear that this will affect braking performance. I do worry that the fit may cause noise.

One thing I was going to do against the service instructions was to lightly grease the guide bolts. I noticed that when pulling them out they had some extra deposits on them, and no grease. So why mess with a system that already works well? No thanks. I just cleaned up the guide bolts. However when you are dealing with metal-on-metal guide bolts and slides, grease is necessary (like in the front E30 carrier for Girling calipers). Also, the notch for the pad sensor may have an incorrect pad backing thickness. I didn't use a new sensor ( I don't care about brake lining warning lights). Maybe a new sensor would have a tighter fit, so I can't conclude that it is the pad's fault.

I have yet to drive the car to report on performance. I don't believe in a bedding in procedure, just drive the car carefully for the first handful of miles until they naturally bed with normal use.

Luckily all 4 Textars had about 1mm (by eye) pad material to spare. No rotor problems.

gomolka30 11-26-2012 09:54 PM

I'm happy to report that these pads perform close to OEM Textars. I used a high quality anti squeal compound and they are silent so far. At the price point of $47, I wouldn't recommend buying these over other similar priced options online. However, if they run another sale on these pads for $10.99, or even $24.99, I would scoop them up in a heartbeat.

The sale was for any regular Pro Stop pad set (not Premium or Ceramic), so the fronts would also have been priced at $10.99. $22 for a complete set of new brake pads? Yes please.

gibo58 11-26-2012 11:31 PM

brakes
 
I just bought a full set of discs and pads from the dealer.

Front pads were Jurids, rear pads were Textars.

Both sets of discs has no brand name at all.

I'm a big believer in 'you get what you pay for' so those $10 pads might not last long, but only time will tell.

I went with the dealer due to cost of shipping from the US due to the weight, it would of cost more from ECS ect than the dealer over here. I get trade price so wasn't too shocked at the invoice.

bluebee 11-27-2012 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomolka30 (Post 7210996)
It's more important that I get pads (any pads) before I score up my rotors.

Makes sense. Did you mic the rotors?

When I mic mine, I generally get two pad replacements per rotor in the rear.
- One user's example of a complete brake job with all torque figures, specs, measurements, fluids, decisions, tools, tricks, mistakes, suppliers, costs, etc., that it entails (1)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomolka30 (Post 7213368)
Pro Stop pads, the fit is not as precise as the Textars

Interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomolka30 (Post 7213368)
lightly grease the guide bolts. I noticed that when pulling them out they had some extra deposits on them, and no grease.

While a prescribed brake job is almost completely dry, I literally slobbered lubricants on my pad backs and on the pins and landings - yet - each time (three total) I've replaced the pads and/or rotors - the brakes were completely dry.

So, personally, I don't think it really matters either way:
- What BMW says about brake rotor & caliper & pad lubricants (1)


Quote:

Originally Posted by gomolka30 (Post 7213368)
I don't believe in a bedding in procedure

Actually, you do have a bedding-in procedure; it's just not the ten-high-speed-almost-stops bedding procedure.

Millions of brake pads are replaced by shops who likely don't perform any bedding-in procedure - so - your's is as good as mine (which is roughly similar to yours).

Quote:

Originally Posted by gibo58 (Post 7216180)
I'm a big believer in 'you get what you pay for'

According to my old dusty economics textbooks covering the supply and demand curves, "you actually pay what OTHERS pay for".

In fact, IMHO, you rarely get what 'you' pay for!
- You never get what you pay for ($18 Fram oil filter)

gomolka30 11-27-2012 04:35 PM

No, I didn't mic the rotors, but they looked pretty good to me. The outer edge was not substantially greater than the rest of the rotor. Remember my pads were worn to only 1mm. At this point there was only minor brake vibrations in the current rotor state. If you think about it, the min rotor thickness is probably more of a warning that the caliper piston is protruding past its limit, causing vibrations between the caliper cylinder and piston due to the reduced contact area between the two. Now that my piston is seated far back into the caliper bore with the new pads, that shouldn't be an issue for a long time. I have a feeling that the rotor thickness spec is more for this reason than it is for rotor integrity. There is no way that a rotor with that much meat on it will simply just fail. It doesn't happen like that.

On another note, Pep Boys are now A+ in my book. They not only honored the black friday sale price today, but they also extended it to a set of front pads as well. They understood that the parts guy quoted me the wrong price at the time. And I don't feel that the saying "you get what you pay for" applies to this case. Remember, these pads are priced at $67/$47 F/R on any other day. This was just a one day per year special. Last year they were only $9.99 per set.

Looking at the fronts, however, they are rated FE. The compound is visually different from the rears (little bits of copper in the rear, none in the front). So I'll reiterate my recommendation, these pads are surely not the first choice at full price. But at $11 per set, they will work great to have in your garage as a back-up set if you are in a pinch. For the tame drivers out there who don't typically do hard braking, these pads will work just fine. You may not even notice any difference from OEM.

I think this is the start of a new black friday tradition :)

bluebee 11-27-2012 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomolka30 (Post 7217586)
If you think about it, the min rotor thickness is probably more of a warning that the caliper piston is protruding past its limit

I always thought it was mostly about heat dissipation - but I could be wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomolka30 (Post 7217586)
I don't feel that the saying "you get what you pay for" applies to this case.

I opened up a thread today on that topic:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Do you really get the value of what you pay for when purchasing E39 goods & services?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomolka30 (Post 7217586)
they are rated FE

That's interesting that the hot friction is less than the cold, since 'most' pads in the referenced thread were evenly rated.

gomolka30 11-28-2012 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluebee (Post 7218285)
I always thought it was mostly about heat dissipation - but I could be wrong.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense too. Luckily, if the driver is in tune with their car, they will be able to feel any degrading well before catastrophic failure. It's not like the rotor will disintegrate. I have heard some bad stories about pads though.



Quote:

That's interesting that the hot friction is less than the cold, since 'most' pads in the referenced thread were evenly rated.
Yeah, they probably used a cheaper compound in these pads as the volume of material is much greater than the rears. I won't know how they perform for a very long time, as I tend to get around 40-60k out of a set of pads, and my fronts look like they still have 75% life in them.


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