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-   -   Here's another ATS vs 3 Series Comparison (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=660826)

LarryboysUDM 11-27-2012 08:28 PM

Here's another ATS vs 3 Series Comparison
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puc-IbynKpQ

Ezra Dyer pits Cadillac's ATS against its German target, the BMW 3-Series -- on BMW's home-away-from-home turf.

http://autos.yahoo.com/video/cadilla...143801898.html

tturedraider 11-27-2012 08:39 PM

Thanks. Just what we need to make this forum a more pleasant place to spend time.

WillInDenver 11-27-2012 08:53 PM

I'm in early, and I say it doesn't matter. The ATS target market is the BMW 3 series target market minus the people who just don't want a Cadillac, which leaves a smaller buyer group than BMW will worry about. They have a much larger problem with Audi.

GM is doing some great work with the Cadillac products right now. In my opinion, they should have rolled out a new brand marque for these very good cars, as the Cadillac name removes value from what they are trying to do in the market. Just sayin'.

-=Hot|Ice=- 11-27-2012 09:47 PM

Cadillac is a rebadged Chevy.

bmw_or_audi 11-27-2012 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WJGreer (Post 7218177)
GM is doing some great work with the Cadillac products right now. In my opinion, they should have rolled out a new brand marque for these very good cars, as the Cadillac name removes value from what they are trying to do in the market. Just sayin'.

Very good point.

wayner44 11-28-2012 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi (Post 7218328)
very good point.

+1

Leslierc 11-28-2012 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WJGreer (Post 7218177)
I'm in early, and I say it doesn't matter. The ATS target market is the BMW 3 series target market minus the people who just don't want a Cadillac, which leaves a smaller buyer group than BMW will worry about. They have a much larger problem with Audi.

GM is doing some great work with the Cadillac products right now. In my opinion, they should have rolled out a new brand marque for these very good cars, as the Cadillac name removes value from what they are trying to do in the market. Just sayin'.

I completely agree with your first point regarding target market. The only cars my mother drove were Cadillacs...a new one every 2 years or so, but Cadillac wouldn't be my choice even though I respect very much what that company is doing with its vehicles. As to your second point, I don't think there's anything wrong with the Cadillac name. Cadillac and GM are very much a part of the fabric of America. It was GM and other manufacturers that provided jobs to masses of people, triggered gender and racial integration in the workplace, changed our society from agrarian to industrial, and created a middle class early in the last century. Cadillac engineered, built, and powered the Sherman tanks that helped defeat Japan and Germany in WWII. After that war, the company became one of the symbols of prosperity for this country. By the way, have you seen the Cadillac Ciel? http://www.coolhunting.com/design/cadillac-ciel.php I don't choose their cars because, right now, I prefer those of other companies. However, I think Cadillac still has a strong brand and that the company is making very competitive cars for the marketplace.

demas 11-28-2012 04:34 AM

guys, I'm not an F30 owner but frequent this section (only to watch the BJ debates - keep em going they're great;) but c'mon, even I'm getting tired of seeing these Cadillac comparison threads. Move it to the general automotive forum.


as to the post above, sure Cadillac has its place in history and should be appreciated but BMW engines powered the Luftwaffe that bombed half of Britain but we buy their cars and then some. Speaks volumes to the respective products.


ok, I'll leave now and go back to the E39 forums but will be joining the F10 folks in a couple of months.


rock on:thumbup:

CE750Jockey 11-28-2012 07:26 AM

"The ATS is the first Cadillac built specifically to take on the BMW 3 series". In other words, copy it and try to improve on it. And still, it comes up a little short. It's proactive vs reactive.....again. Sure the ATS is a good car, but it just doesn't inspire the passion. It's still missing the "It" factor that all copies lack.

boltjaM3s 11-28-2012 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider (Post 7218154)
Thanks. Just what we need to make this forum a more pleasant place to spend time.

Yeah, and all over a car that no BMW owner would be caught dead in.

BJ

Chris90 11-28-2012 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WJGreer (Post 7218177)
I'm in early, and I say it doesn't matter. The ATS target market is the BMW 3 series target market minus the people who just don't want a Cadillac, which leaves a smaller buyer group than BMW will worry about.

The market for people who don't want a BMW is also quite large. I know tons of people who'd never buy a BMW cause they don't want the a-hole stigma.

I haven't asked them if they'd buy a Cadillac though. :)

justinnum1 11-28-2012 07:30 AM

you can put a cadillac emblem on a ferrari and it would still cary the stigma

Chris90 11-28-2012 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CE750Jockey (Post 7218701)
"The ATS is the first Cadillac built specifically to take on the BMW 3 series". In other words, copy it and try to improve on it. And still, it comes up a little short. It's proactive vs reactive.....again.

It's like the Lexus IS300, designed for one reason, to copy the E36.

It failed cause it was a half-assed effort.

WillInDenver 11-28-2012 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leslierc (Post 7218410)
As to your second point, I don't think there's anything wrong with the Cadillac name. Cadillac and GM are very much a part of the fabric of America. It was GM and other manufacturers that provided jobs to masses of people, triggered gender and racial integration in the workplace, changed our society from agrarian to industrial, and created a middle class early in the last century. Cadillac engineered, built, and powered the Sherman tanks that helped defeat Japan and Germany in WWII. After that war, the company became one of the symbols of prosperity for this country.

All true. It's the stuff Cadillac did in the 80s and 90s that I think shrinks the market.

dtc100 11-28-2012 08:24 AM

I don't know when some of you BMW fans will start to call the BMW own test driver an idiot, because even he seemed to agree the ATS 3.6, although not as good as the F30 335i in straight line performance, was better on the curves and at the corners.

One thing I found it alarming is, it actually proved BJ's point again, our own BMW test driver did not even know ATS existed, he had to Google it to find out:)

Chris90 11-28-2012 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 7218829)
I don't know when some of you BMW fans will start to call the BMW own test driver an idiot, because even he seemed to agree the ATS 3.6, although not as good as the F30 335i in straight line performance, was better on the curves and at the corners.

The BMW guy actually said the 335i had less body roll, and was the better performer overall. He certainly didn't say the ATS was better at anything, I didn't hear that.

justinnum1 11-28-2012 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90 (Post 7218847)
The BMW guy actually said the 335i had less body roll, and was the better performer overall. He certainly didn't say the ATS was better at anything, I didn't hear that.

dtc100 hears only what he wants to. He probably wishes he got the GS instead of his boat, i mean the 535i. :)

tturedraider 11-28-2012 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 7218829)
I don't know when some of you BMW fans will start to call the BMW own test driver an idiot, because even he seemed to agree the ATS 3.6, although not as good as the F30 335i in straight line performance, was better on the curves and at the corners.

One thing I found it alarming is, it actually proved BJ's point again, our own BMW test driver did not even know ATS existed, he had to Google it to find out:)

I think you need to watch the video again. He didn't agree the ATS was better in the curves. He actually said the 335i had less body roll and a firmer suspension. He didn't really give the ATS anything. I caught that Google thing, too. I don't think it's true. I hope not.

This was far, far from an unbiased "review". They referred to Chris Hennecy as a current or former BMW owner (I also read the print version of the review), a member of the BMW CCA, and an SCCA member as if his profession is racing. One small detail they left out is that he is a little more than just a member of the BMW CCA. He is the head of BMW CCA marketing. His profession isn't racing. He has a master's degree in marketing and that is his profession.

dtc100 11-28-2012 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tturedraider (Post 7218867)
I think you need to watch the video again. He didn't agree the ATS was better in the curves. He actually said the 335i had less body roll and a firmer suspension. He didn't really give the ATS anything. I caught that Google thing, too. I don't think it's true. I hope not.

This was far, far from an unbiased "review". They referred to Chris Hennecy as a current or former BMW owner (I also read the print version of the review), a member of the BMW CCA, and an SCCA member as if his profession is racing. One small detail they left out is that he is a little more than just a member of the BMW CCA. He is the head of BMW CCA marketing. His profession isn't racing. He has a master's degree in marketing and that is his profession.

I certainly heard his comment about the 335i having firmer suspension and less body roll, I was very surprised since it went against pretty much all other reviews, and of my own back to back test drives. The difference may be the test track vs. back roads. They probably did not know the ATS also had a sport mode, first Google attempt usually comes a little short on the information, especially when Chris' more familiar GM name was that of the Malibu:)

However the conclusion of the review, as that Yahoo reviewer said, was that the ATS was better at the curves, although not at straight, therefore I assumed the BMW guy seemed to agree (he certainly nodded when the guy was talking):). Having provided all the input to that Yahoo reviewer, I think he would have objected to that conclusion had he disagreed.

Clearly having more fun at the curves and corners was why both of them agreed, although the ATS came a bit short, it was a good first attempt.

Chris90 11-28-2012 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 7218897)
I certainly heard his comment about the 335i having firmer suspension and less body roll, I was very surprised since it went against pretty much all other reviews, and of my own back to back test drives. However the conclusion of the review, as that Yahoo reviewer said, was that the ATS was better at the curves, although not at straight, therefore I assumed the BMW guy seemed to agree. Having provided all the input to that Yahoo reviewer, I think he would have objected to that conclusion had he disagreed.

Clearly having more fun at the curves and corners was why both of them agreed, although the ATS came a bit short, it was a good first attempt.

I didn't hear that - at best the BMW said it was a good effort, he never said it was more fun or better at anything.

What do you expect him to say if he works for BMW?

tturedraider 11-28-2012 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90 (Post 7218901)
I didn't hear that - at best the BMW said it was a good effort, he never said it was more fun or better at anything.

What do you expect him to say if he works for BMW?

Just to be clear - he doesn't work for BMW. He works for BMW CCA, which is an independent organization. They do drink the BMW kool aid, but it is not at all uncommon for their writers to also voice criticism of BMW. However, he is not a writer. He is the marketing guy.

dtc100 11-28-2012 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris90 (Post 7218901)
I didn't hear that - at best the BMW said it was a good effort, he never said it was more fun or better at anything.

What do you expect him to say if he works for BMW?

The Yahoo guy said the ATS was more fun on the curves and at the corners, Chris sat in the ATS while he had some fun playing, they then stepped out of the ATS and agreed on something. To me it says something. It is precisely because I did not expect much from Chris, his nod seemed to me more than what he admitted. Chris did say the ATS drove like E46. I don't know what he thinks about the E46, I assumed he liked E46.

voip-ninja 11-28-2012 11:23 AM

If the ATS had been available in the market when I ordered my F30 I would have at least considered it.

I actually believe that GM engineers very good vehicles and the work being done at Cadillac is impressive.

My biggest gripe with Caddy is the 'old man' image as well as the interior that looks like it belongs in a Neon, not a $45K+ luxury sedan.

tturedraider 11-28-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 7218947)
The Yahoo guy said the ATS was more fun on the curves and at the corners, Chris sat in the ATS while he had some fun playing, they then stepped out of the ATS and agreed on something. To me it says something. It is precisely because I did not expect much from Chris, his nod seemed to me more than what he admitted. Chris did say the ATS drove like E46. I don't know what he thinks about the E46, I assumed he liked E46.

That wasn't Chris comparing the ATS to the E46. That was the reviewer. Chris, in fact, brought it back to the F30 335i.

boramkiv 11-28-2012 03:32 PM

This is getting ridiculous now. It's as if the 3 series is the ONLY car that this ATS is even comparable to. I remember when the G37 coupe came out, it wasn't this bad. These journalists make GM seem as if they are desparate. All this is doing is making the 3 series look that much better. The only car in this segment any car company has to make a car better than is the 3 series. Really? This ATS wil be forgotten in 2 years.


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