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-   -   Weird Windshield Wiper Issue (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=662456)

Nordic_Kat 12-05-2012 07:29 PM

Weird Windshield Wiper Issue
 
In early October, while the car was at the dealership having the battery issue looked at, they changed my oil and put a new set of wiper blades on the car. The old ones weren't bad, just a little streaky.

The new blades are horrible!

The first weekend after having the car serviced, was on a road trip and encountered rain. The wipers no longer glide across the glass, instead they ratchet or jump. After prolonged exposure to rain they eventually (that weekend) smoothed out.

This last weekend while washing the car, I dried off the blades (no big deal), but yesterday evening, when leaving work we were having a huge rainstorm. My wipers ratcheted, jumped and chattered with every pass. The only time they seemed to even approach working somewhat smoothly was when the car was at speed, at stop lights it was painfully annoying how bad they were.

Is there something I can put on them to make them work more smoothly? Is my windshield too clean? Did BMW change vendors and the new blades are garbage?

Help!

TIA

BMWDB 12-05-2012 07:48 PM

I've had a two (2) sets, one recently, on my 2009 328i replaced under the maintenance warranty with no issue. If you haven't already done so, I'd return to the dealer for another set whether a warranty coverage or not.

-=Hot|Ice=- 12-05-2012 10:22 PM

Your windshield has dried out. You may need to clay it. What do you clean your windshield with? Use Invisible glass to clean the windshield. You may also have to Change your wiper fluid. A lot if factors can play into this. Worst case - just go back and tell them thr wipers streak.

CALWATERBOY 12-06-2012 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- (Post 7233803)
Your windshield has dried out. You may need to clay it. What do you clean your windshield with? Use Invisible glass to clean the windshield. You may also have to Change your wiper fluid. A lot if factors can play into this. Worst case - just go back and tell them thr wipers streak.


Dude!

Contains butyl cellosolve, shown to cause testicular shrinkage in mice.

Cahones the size o'raisons - - is that what you want?

Nordic_Kat 12-06-2012 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- (Post 7233803)
Your windshield has dried out. You may need to clay it. What do you clean your windshield with? Use Invisible glass to clean the windshield. You may also have to Change your wiper fluid. A lot if factors can play into this. Worst case - just go back and tell them thr wipers streak.

I have a hard time believing its the windshield but I may be wrong. I clayed the windshield the week before the new wipers were installed as part of my big detailing, and I have been weekly using the same glass cleaner (Mequiars Professional) for over a year with no ill effects. The washer fluid in the reservoir is whatever was put their by BMW service. The issue seems to be squarely associated with the new wipers.

If anything is "dried out" I would believe it would be the rubber wipers, not the glass.

anE934fun 12-06-2012 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat (Post 7234220)
I have a hard time believing its the windshield but I may be wrong. I clayed the windshield the week before the new wipers were installed as part of my big detailing, and I have been weekly using the same glass cleaner (Mequiars Professional) for over a year with no ill effects. The washer fluid in the reservoir is whatever was put their by BMW service. The issue seems to be squarely associated with the new wipers.

If anything is "dried out" I would believe it would be the rubber wipers, not the glass.

Very possible. If there is a manufacture date on the box for the wipers, anything older than a few months would be suspect. The behavior you describe for the replacement wipers is consistent with dried out (1+ year old) wipers. I would take the car back to the dealer and ask for a set of new wipers. The dealer can confirm the 'dryness' of the wipers by spraying water from a hose on the windshield and turning on the wipers.

Ilovemycar 12-06-2012 07:27 PM

Hi Kat. Mine was "stuttering" quite a bit too last week, actually I think it was the driver's side mainly (only?), when it recently rained here.

I don't remember how long it's been since I had the dealership change my blades out, and admittedly I change wipers quite rarely because it doesn't rain all that much where I live, but it cannot have been more than a couple of years. I'd have to check.

What I did notice quite a while ago was that it didn't take long at all for the blades to lose their paint; it really took no time at all for this happen. It doesn't look good from inside the cabin, if one cared to look at them, but hey they're replaced often, so I just lived with them. So when I recently changed out my truck wipers with some Anco cheapies ($5) I got from Amazon, I made sure to treat the paint on the blades, I can't remember if I used sealant, or 303, or what. Unfortunately they seem to stutter a bit too.

So I have a pair of BMW wipers waiting to be installed, that I bought quite a while ago from Tischer, combined with a larger order, as I was thinking at the time I'm paying shipping already and I know I'll need them eventually. I will proably "seal" them too. (I did wonder about them losing effectiveness over time, maybe a bad purchasing decision.) Maybe I shouldn't seal them, to see if they are of better quality, at least the paint, but then what if they're not, I'd be a tad bummed, eh, I'll consider it.

Anyway, I guess my main suspicion is that the wiper blades that the dealership gave me are of very low quality, because I cannot remember, ever, having blades losing their paint, let alone in such a relatively short period of time (and this time on a well cared for car that spends most of its life in a garage). If the paint is so, so, so cheap like that, I wouldn't be surprised if they skimped on the rubber bit either.

I also use Meguiar's D120, though I have lots of Invisible Glass as well as Sprayway, and others, using Griot's polypropelene glass towels. I haven't clayed in a long time, and this includes paint, because the last couple of times I tried it was a waste of my time, the car is just too well cared for, for there to be any significant contaminants embedded. (It doesn't hurt that the sealant coats I use seem to last forever, and I attribute a lot of that to my extremely gentle wash technique, with choice of Griot's soap.)

I suspect that there is still residual Aquapel on the windshield from an application from last winter (possible?), because I think at 50+ mph, beads do just fly off without any need for using the wipers. At least that was the case pretty recently.

-=Hot|Ice=- 12-06-2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat (Post 7234220)
I have a hard time believing its the windshield but I may be wrong. I clayed the windshield the week before the new wipers were installed as part of my big detailing, and I have been weekly using the same glass cleaner (Mequiars Professional) for over a year with no ill effects. The washer fluid in the reservoir is whatever was put their by BMW service. The issue seems to be squarely associated with the new wipers.

If anything is "dried out" I would believe it would be the rubber wipers, not the glass.

If you've clayed the the windshield, and use the BMW washer fluid, it has to be the wipers. :) Tell them you want them changed again!

The Other Tom 12-07-2012 05:31 AM

I had exactly the same problem. My wipers were working fine when I took my car in for an oil change. The dealer replaced the wipers under warranty. The new ones did exactly what Kat said. I've just lived with it so far. I was thinking of getting an aftermarket set but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Pasa-d 12-07-2012 05:58 AM

Back when I drove an Audi, this was a common occurrence. The cars came from the factory with high quality Bosch blades but got replaced at the dealership with low quality "equivalent" blades at the first service. Once the forum community found this out it was an easy matter to look for the absence or presence of the VAG part number on the blade and demand an OEM set at the dealership instead of the cheapy ones.

Not sure if this is the same with BMW but it sounds like it might be, at least at your dealership. Personally I have not experienced this with my car since I've had it.

530CE 12-07-2012 03:44 PM

[QUOTE=Nordic_Kat;7233522]

This last weekend while washing the car, I dried off the blades (no big deal), but yesterday evening, when leaving work we were having a huge rainstorm. My wipers ratcheted, jumped and chattered with every pass.


Kat,

What are you doing with rain in Houston? We haven't had rain in so long here in San Antonio it's starting to look like Phoenix.:mad:

Actually we've had the the same exact problem on my wife's X3 and invisible Glass solved it quickly.

-=Hot|Ice=- 12-07-2012 08:56 PM

[QUOTE=530CE;7236878]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat (Post 7233522)

This last weekend while washing the car, I dried off the blades (no big deal), but yesterday evening, when leaving work we were having a huge rainstorm. My wipers ratcheted, jumped and chattered with every pass.


Kat,

What are you doing with rain in Houston? We haven't had rain in so long here in San Antonio it's starting to look like Phoenix.:mad:

Actually we've had the the same exact problem on my wife's X3 and invisible Glass solved it quickly.

It works wonders. I'm telling ya.

DSXMachina 12-07-2012 11:20 PM

I sell wiper blades, lots of 'em, Bosch, Anco, Trico, oem. Every one of them is a complete assembly ready to snap onto the arm. Nothing annoys me more than chattering or otherwise noisy wipers and that's why I won't install blades. Blades are the portion of the wiper assembly which actually contacts the glass. They are a royal pain to install correctly, never fit the armature like the originals, and rarely match the quality. It's what dealers all use for warranty replacement.
I know, they put a set on my car (free!) and the first time it rained I couldn't wait to get them off. Free was too high a price for them. I'd suggest to anyone who wants some premium blades which are totally quiet (including in the airstream on a dry day), get a set of Bosch Icons. Installation takes a minute per side. Thank me later.

Ilovemycar 12-08-2012 03:14 PM

Thank you DSX. So this is one of those rare (to me) occasions where going aftermarket is better, eh. I'll have to double check sizes, but I saw these 19" and 24" blades being sold individually at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-19OE-ICO...1&s=automotive

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-24OE-ICO...1&s=automotive

Nordic_Kat 12-09-2012 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSXMachina (Post 7237396)
I sell wiper blades, lots of 'em, Bosch, Anco, Trico, oem. Every one of them is a complete assembly ready to snap onto the arm. Nothing annoys me more than chattering or otherwise noisy wipers and that's why I won't install blades. Blades are the portion of the wiper assembly which actually contacts the glass. They are a royal pain to install correctly, never fit the armature like the originals, and rarely match the quality. It's what dealers all use for warranty replacement.
I know, they put a set on my car (free!) and the first time it rained I couldn't wait to get them off. Free was too high a price for them. I'd suggest to anyone who wants some premium blades which are totally quiet (including in the airstream on a dry day), get a set of Bosch Icons. Installation takes a minute per side. Thank me later.

This goes a long way to explaining the issue. Thanks. I also noticed while perusing the topic in my Bentley Manual, they list improper alignment (twisting) as a primary reason for chatter. Maybe they had a rookie-new hire put the blades on. :dunno: Is it really that easy to not align them properly?

In the meantime am doing my homework re: Bosch Icons.

Can you verify the size of the right side blade? The blade currently on the car is 17.25" long. Isn't the right side blade suposed to be 19"? I have no confidence at this point that it's in fact the correct blade for the car.

The left side is a 24" blade which seems to match what I've determined in my reading and research.

Thanks!

-=Hot|Ice=- 12-09-2012 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSXMachina (Post 7237396)
I sell wiper blades, lots of 'em, Bosch, Anco, Trico, oem. Every one of them is a complete assembly ready to snap onto the arm. Nothing annoys me more than chattering or otherwise noisy wipers and that's why I won't install blades. Blades are the portion of the wiper assembly which actually contacts the glass. They are a royal pain to install correctly, never fit the armature like the originals, and rarely match the quality. It's what dealers all use for warranty replacement.
I know, they put a set on my car (free!) and the first time it rained I couldn't wait to get them off. Free was too high a price for them. I'd suggest to anyone who wants some premium blades which are totally quiet (including in the airstream on a dry day), get a set of Bosch Icons. Installation takes a minute per side. Thank me later.

Icons are wonderful but tend to streek after about a year. The Evolution I've found to be much better. :)

DSXMachina 12-10-2012 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ilovemycar (Post 7238244)
Thank you DSX. So this is one of those rare (to me) occasions where going aftermarket is better, eh. I'll have to double check sizes, but I saw these 19" and 24" blades being sold individually at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-19OE-ICO...1&s=automotive

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-24OE-ICO...1&s=automotive

Did you verify that those will attach properly to the arms?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat (Post 7239853)
This goes a long way to explaining the issue. Thanks. I also noticed while perusing the topic in my Bentley Manual, they list improper alignment (twisting) as a primary reason for chatter. Maybe they had a rookie-new hire put the blades on. :dunno: Is it really that easy to not align them properly?

In the meantime am doing my homework re: Bosch Icons.

Can you verify the size of the right side blade? The blade currently on the car is 17.25" long. Isn't the right side blade suposed to be 19"? I have no confidence at this point that it's in fact the correct blade for the car.

The left side is a 24" blade which seems to match what I've determined in my reading and research.

Thanks!

You are correct, the blades are 24 and 19. I understand what Bentley means by "twisting". Used to do it all the time. What they are referring to is making sure that the blade contacts the glass at a 90 degree angle. As things wear (all the swivel points) the blade can shift over, say to 85 degrees. Now when a new (grabby) blade is installed into the original metal armature the rubber will chatter over the glass in one direction and not the other. Bend the armature and when it's at 90 the chatter goes away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- (Post 7240220)
Icons are wonderful but tend to streek after about a year. The Evolution I've found to be much better. :)

Hot, you cheapie! I change blades every year regardless, and most of the time when I do have a reason it is because of streaking, what the heck, they're a year old. And btw, if you can find out for sure just what is the difference between the Evolutions and the Icons, let me know.
I demand a perfect view out my windshield and streaks of any kind annoy me as much as noisy blades.
(As you can tell, some things annoy me. I once had a Nissan 300Z with the 'talking' warning system. I was leaving NJ for NH when suddenly I get a Ding! followed by "The driver's door is ajar!" The door switch wiring had broken. I listened to that every ten seconds all the way home. You have no idea how close to the edge that put me.)

cwinter 12-10-2012 10:20 AM

Kat, mine have been doing the same thing badly on occasion. I understand your annoyance!

If you have tried cleaning, I suppose there is nothing you can do but replace. However, for me, after I give the windshield a good clean (with Stoner Invisible glass, though I'm sure Megs is a good product as well), and also clean the blades themselves, I usually have no issues.

Now that free maintenance has ended for me, I'll order a set of Bosch wipers that DSX recommended and wait for these to die. I do believe they aren't exceptional quality, but I have gotten usually a year of use out of each replacement set from the dealer. :dunno:

Nordic_Kat 12-10-2012 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSXMachina (Post 7240845)

You are correct, the blades are 24 and 19. I understand what Bentley means by "twisting". Used to do it all the time. What they are referring to is making sure that the blade contacts the glass at a 90 degree angle. As things wear (all the swivel points) the blade can shift over, say to 85 degrees. Now when a new (grabby) blade is installed into the original metal armature the rubber will chatter over the glass in one direction and not the other. Bend the armature and when it's at 90 the chatter goes away.

Interesting. I just popped outside and looked at the contact angle of the blades with the glass. It appears the driver's side is contacting at someplace around 80-85 degrees and the passenger side is contacting at about 100 degrees. In other words, neither look right and they aren't consistent with each other. No wonder the chatter happens both directions.

Is there any harm at this point in trying to 'straighten' them out?

DSXMachina 12-10-2012 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat (Post 7240957)
Interesting. I just popped outside and looked at the contact angle of the blades with the glass. It appears the driver's side is contacting at someplace around 80-85 degrees and the passenger side is contacting at about 100 degrees. In other words, neither look right and they aren't consistent with each other. No wonder the chatter happens both directions.

Is there any harm at this point in trying to 'straighten' them out?

No harm. You'll be bending the arm, near where it attaches to the blade, in a rotational direction. You'll want to wrap the arm in something to protect it from the tool you use. We'd use a Channel-Lock, Vise Grip or pliers. A layer of leather protects well, so does an old credit card.

Park the wipers in an upright direction by turning the ignition off while the wipers are on. Grab ahold of the arm as far from the base as you can, and over rotate by 15 degrees or so because there'll be a little spring to them. Stop when you find that the blade is at 90.
Don't pull the wipers any further off the glass than you have to.

-=Hot|Ice=- 12-10-2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSXMachina (Post 7240845)
Did you verify that those will attach properly to the arms?




You are correct, the blades are 24 and 19. I understand what Bentley means by "twisting". Used to do it all the time. What they are referring to is making sure that the blade contacts the glass at a 90 degree angle. As things wear (all the swivel points) the blade can shift over, say to 85 degrees. Now when a new (grabby) blade is installed into the original metal armature the rubber will chatter over the glass in one direction and not the other. Bend the armature and when it's at 90 the chatter goes away.


Hot, you cheapie! I change blades every year regardless, and most of the time when I do have a reason it is because of streaking, what the heck, they're a year old. And btw, if you can find out for sure just what is the difference between the Evolutions and the Icons, let me know.
I demand a perfect view out my windshield and streaks of any kind annoy me as much as noisy blades.
(As you can tell, some things annoy me. I once had a Nissan 300Z with the 'talking' warning system. I was leaving NJ for NH when suddenly I get a Ding! followed by "The driver's door is ajar!" The door switch wiring had broken. I listened to that every ten seconds all the way home. You have no idea how close to the edge that put me.)

:lol: Honestly though, I usually change my wiper blades every year because I also get annoyed by the little streaks that form but never had the issue with the Icons until the last set I bought. I absolutely love the Bosch Icons, but if I'm going to replace them every year(which I tend to do) I was getting tired of shelling out $50 each time on 'higher quality' blades that as far as I've seen perform the same as the Evo's.

I have put a set on the Camry three years running, until last year(selling it). The Icons are better if you're going to keep them on for awhile. I've had no issues with the Evolutions in the past 9 months of using them. Streak free, and chatter free. If you want the ultimate, The Icons will last. The EVO is just a step below the Icons. The M3 actually just got a new set of Icons put on not too long ago. :)

Here are the differences of the two wipers though:

-The Evolution has a symmetric spoiler, the Icon has Asymmetrical aerodynamic flexible spoiler

-The rubber on the Evolution uses a precision cut natural wiping edge, while the Icons use exclusive FX dual rubber.

(That means that the top of the rubber actually has a soft layer where it connects to the wind spoiler which will help reduce chatter.)

- The Evolution uses steel springs to keep pressure on the wipers.

-The Icons have two different wipers for the driver and passenger, which helps reduce streaking.

Ilovemycar 12-10-2012 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSXMachina (Post 7240845)
Did you verify that those will attach properly to the arms?

Only so far as Amazon telling me that they will fit my "saved vehicle" that is in "your garage". Otherwise, no.

Thanks for the info on twisting, people. I saw that the driver's side is indeed way off with angle, the passenger's not so much. I need to check on the other vehicle too. I'll soon follow your instructions DSX, thank you. I don't have leather patches or old credit cards, so I'll probably take some cloths of some sort, folded or wrapped a number of times.

Hot Ice's input has me even more convinced to try the Icons, because I'm not one who will buy them on a yearly basis, at least I never was one to do that before. Thanks all.

Ilovemycar 12-10-2012 10:28 PM

After a little digging around, I found the extra blades I ordered back when from Tischer, and installed them. They look rather perpendicular to the glass, so I didn't have to delve into twisting after all, at least for now. I guess the 14 month old blades were worse for wear after all. These are the easiest wiper blades to install I have ever come across. After the tab is depressed to release plastic cover, they literally slide right on.

BTW, the box says the right blade is 18". I measured to double check, and both the old and new blades were 18". I didn't think to check for extra clearance, but I imagine 19" could probably work fine. I'll try to make a mental note to see how the clearance looks next time. (Does the vert have a differently shaped windshield by any chance? The thought never crossed my mind before.)

Princeton 12-11-2012 06:56 AM

I have Icons on both the family BMWs (mine and wife's X3). They are great. Amazon has great pricing.

Nordic_Kat 12-11-2012 10:55 AM

I am a bit confused about the different variants of the Bosch Icons. When I go onto Amazon and the Bosch site, it indicates they aren't available for the E93. The Bosch site also shows many different connector types for the Icons. I noticed the E93 (2009) has a very different looking connector as compared to my bosses 2011 E90.
(see pics below).

What specific part number are people using for the Icons on their E92/E93s?

Thanks!


2009 E93:
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/z...cb3cef8177.jpg


2011 E90
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/z...dea8422b92.jpg


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