Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

Bimmerfest - BMW Forums (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/index.php)
-   F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current) (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=153)
-   -   Worst nightmare came true :( (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666333)

StinkyMonkey 12-27-2012 01:02 AM

Worst nightmare came true :(
 
Hey all,

First time poster here, long time lurker. Just had to register to get some advice from you all.

Way back in early September I ordered a new 2013 328i to lease. Got it for $500 over invoice with a 62% residual, MF: 0.00150 (with 7 SD). I was told it would arrive in 6-8 weeks as it was coming from Germany.

Well, after a few delays, it finally got here today! Went over to the dealership, discussed the moneys, found out it actually came from SA, thus the timing, and then went to go to see the beauty. It was amazing. Love at first sight kind of thing..exceeeeept for the little detail that it was an automatic. I had ordered a manual transmission....sigh :mad: What's actually kind of funny is that I joked around with a buddy of mine about this happening.. not actually believing it was remotely possible!!!

My CA felt incredibly bad. I was super disappointed, but not all that upset. My options were 1) settle with the automatic transmission 2) take another manual car they had in the area that was somewhat close, but still not what I had ordered or 3) reorder from them with the assurance that it would come from Germany and therefore take only 6 weeks with locked in numbers.

I was considering option 1 (it was so beautiful!), but I'm thinking of going with option 3. In the meantime tho, I wanted to ask about the numbers. I thought when coming in today that the numbers we came up with when we ordered the car in Sept were going to carry through today. Not so. The new numbers he gave to me were:

$500 over invoice
60% residual
.00174 base MF (.00125 with 7 SD)
With the holiday discount of $1000

Are these numbers better? Because of this screw up, should I be asking for a better deal or something? I really don't know what to do at this point, if anything. My CA said he could "make it so we cut all the profit from the car," but I'm guessing he meant if I just took the automatic. Anyway, gonna sleep over this and figure out what I should do in the morning. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!

captainaudio 12-27-2012 04:44 AM

If you will be driving the car with an AT and wishing it was an MT order the car you want. If you will be happy with the AT, try to get the dealer to give you a better price to compensate for their mistake.

When I bought my 335i I had the option of taking a car that was identical to what I wanted but a different color (which I was not that crazy about) or waiting for an ordered car to be built. I ordered the exact car I wanted and I am glad I did. In rertospect, as much as I wanted instant gratification, I am glad I waited. Six weeks of waiting vs. several years of wishing I had waited.

CA

pony_trekker 12-27-2012 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StinkyMonkey (Post 7272813)
Hey all,


$500 over invoice
60% residual
.00174 base MF (.00125 with 7 SD)
With the holiday discount of $1000

Are these numbers better?

From reading these boards it seems like $500 over invoice THEN holiday discount is maybe high as there are other discounts too. Also base MF is .00130. So, umm no. As reimbursement for effing you over he's jacked the MF. There are numerous other dealers in your area, I am sure. Try them or make them some ridiculous lowball offer.

I really don't think this can happen unless they wanted it to -- meaning why order a hard to sell manual in case you back out, then just hope they can snow you when the car comes in.

Some dealerships do business that way. I wouldn't do business with them unless it was a really ridiculous deal.

jzcrna 12-27-2012 05:29 AM

Keep the car if it has sport auto transmission with shift paddles. It's absolutely amazing, IMHO.

sunny5280 12-27-2012 05:58 AM

Had you previously test drive the automatic version? If not I wouldn't settle for the automatic transmission until you get some serious seat time with. And then only after having driven one with the manual right afterwards (easy to forget how one is after having gotten out of the other). Only then would I recommend considering the automatic (and I say this as a guy who prefers automatics...just want to be sure you make an informed decision).

If you choose to reorder I would expect they'd make the numbers the same, if not better, than what you agreed to before. This was not your error you shouldn't have to pay for it with a less favorable deal.

mujjuman 12-27-2012 06:06 AM

DON'T settle for manual. Order a new car with manual or you will regret it the rest of the ownership. Been there done that.

CE750Jockey 12-27-2012 06:10 AM

I wouldn't let 'em off the hook by accepting a car I didn't order. That's no way to do business. I'd drive a harder bargain on the car I want, or I'd walk and make damn sure they understood they'd be getting some bad publicity. It was probably an inadvertent mistake, but not one without consequences.

Jokerswld34 12-27-2012 06:19 AM

For what it's worth, I think the 8 at and sport auto are much better than the 6 mt. For the past 12 years I have owned only MTs. I thought I would never switch. I hated every auto trans I drove and vowed I'd never switch to the slush box.

When I went to test drive the BMW I first tested a 3er with 6 MT then went in the auto. Surprisingly I was sold on the auto right away. Comparing the 6mt to my other cars (volvo r, audi s4, brabus Mercedes k4) i wasnt that impressed with the feel. Although I do miss the third pedal sometimes, the efficiency and performance of the sport auto in manual mode makes it easy to forget the stick. Plus it works amazingly with the n20/n26 power band. I'd say take the one you first ordered and negotiate a better deal. It's a lease so you can always switch back to a stick in a few years if you feel the need (if there even still available). Cheers

Jamesonsviggen 12-27-2012 07:00 AM

If you want an 6mt, no automatic will replace it.

My CA ordered an auto by mistake but caught it within a couple of days.

This is too much money to not get what you want.

The 8spd is a great AUTOMATIC. In a car people are already stating has given up a bit of that old great feeling, the 8spd to me, makes it a bit more of a video game to go through the gears.

MonkeyCMonkeyDo 12-27-2012 10:09 AM

I think the most important thing to note right now is how much you are getting screwed with the money factor. The base is .00125 or .00130 and each SD should lower .00007 for a max of .00049. This means your MF with 7 security deposits should be .00081. In fact they are actually marking it up higher than the max allowed by BMW. This dealership sounds VERY shady. :thumbdwn:

I love my AT with sport transmission. I get the MT love and drove them for years, but in the stop and go traffic times in LA, I dont miss it at all. At the end of the day I would get them to give you a AT with sport transmission as a loaner for a full weekend and then make the decision about the transmission. Dont trust the decision on a normal test drive. You are going to need some seat time.

Lorenzzo 12-27-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo (Post 7273387)
I think the most important thing to note right now is how much you are getting screwed with the money factor. The base is .00125 or .00130 and each SD should lower .00007 for a max of .00049. This means your MF with 7 security deposits should be .00081. In fact they are actually marking it up higher than the max allowed by BMW. This dealership sounds VERY shady. :thumbdwn:

I love my AT with sport transmission. I get the MT love and drove them for years, but in the stop and go traffic times in LA, I dont miss it at all. At the end of the day I would get them to give you a AT with sport transmission as a loaner for a full weekend and then make the decision about the transmission. Dont trust the decision on a normal test drive. You are going to need some seat time.

Yeah, they're screwing you. I love my sport auto and agree with the above. With traffic the way it is around here, I'm off MT-s in my daily driver. But the sport auto experience is great and it mates really well with the N20/26. Definitely drive one for a couple of days if you can.

If you decide to go ahead, grind the living hell out of them. Better yet, disclose their name here to protect others and find another dealer.

DavidM1975 12-27-2012 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CE750Jockey (Post 7272945)
I wouldn't let 'em off the hook by accepting a car I didn't order. That's no way to do business. I'd drive a harder bargain on the car I want, or I'd walk and make damn sure they understood they'd be getting some bad publicity. It was probably an inadvertent mistake, but not one without consequences.

+1! It's not an order of curtains that have a slightly different shade than what you saw online for godsakes! Ordering a different transmission is a pretty BIG mistake! Stand your ground - you have every right to do so in this case!

StinkyMonkey 12-27-2012 12:38 PM

Wow thanks for all the replys guys. Super helpful, but also somewhat disappointing to hear I might be getting screwed here..

Quote:

Originally Posted by pony_trekker (Post 7272897)
I really don't think this can happen unless they wanted it to -- meaning why order a hard to sell manual in case you back out, then just hope they can snow you when the car comes in.

Some dealerships do business that way. I wouldn't do business with them unless it was a really ridiculous deal.

I really hope this isn't the case. I'll give my CA the benefit of the doubt that an honest mistake was made.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pony_trekker (Post 7272897)
From reading these boards it seems like $500 over invoice THEN holiday discount is maybe high as there are other discounts too. Also base MF is .00130. So, umm no. As reimbursement for effing you over he's jacked the MF. There are numerous other dealers in your area, I am sure. Try them or make them some ridiculous lowball offer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo (Post 7273387)
I think the most important thing to note right now is how much you are getting screwed with the money factor. The base is .00125 or .00130 and each SD should lower .00007 for a max of .00049. This means your MF with 7 security deposits should be .00081. In fact they are actually marking it up higher than the max allowed by BMW. This dealership sounds VERY shady. :thumbdwn:

Wow, this is surprising. So glad the deal didn't go through yesterday. How can I go back and bring this up though? Kind of hard to say that a couple of guys on a forum said the MF is jacked up. Tried searching for these numbers, but doesn't seem like these numbers are public information BMW puts out.

Really appreciate you guys bringing this up though

Quote:

I love my AT with sport transmission. I get the MT love and drove them for years, but in the stop and go traffic times in LA, I dont miss it at all. At the end of the day I would get them to give you a AT with sport transmission as a loaner for a full weekend and then make the decision about the transmission. Dont trust the decision on a normal test drive. You are going to need some seat time.
Didn't know they do this. I'll see if they have a loaner.

So, seems like everyone is saying not to settle, but I'll go back and test drive the AT just to be sure. Going to also bring up this MF issue. Thanks everyone

MonkeyCMonkeyDo 12-27-2012 12:51 PM

The only site that regularly puts out the numbers and residuals is ridewithg.com

Also, make sure you check out the ask-a-dealer forum as the money factors get stated for each car by multiple people on their (though the actual dealers shy away from posting too much of that information.)

You have not taken delivery of a car. You are under no obligation to accept their offer. Especially since you are now at the holiday time period and there are a bunch of incentives and such available to you. The money factor is indeed .00125 as a base rate provided your credit score is 675 or better. With 7 MSD it should be .00076

However, many dealers mark up a couple different items to make their profit and to make sure each department shows some profit. That is not a big deal. For example $500 over invoice shows CA made profit. The acq fee of $725 is marked up to max $925 showing manager making profit and then MF marked up say .0002 so F&I guy shows profit. This example gives the dealership a profit of around $1400 bucks when all is said and done. However, I would recommend, especially after the mistake, a BASE money factor and base acq fee and make sure you go to BMWconfig to know what the TRUE invoice price is and go up 500 from that BEFORE bringing in incentives such as the holiday cash.

Again, I strongly recommend reading up the ask-a-dealer forum.

Also, if your dealership has a service department odds are they have loaners. Talk to the GM about getting a f30 loaner with the sports transmission for the weekend as it may save them the hassle of having to order another car. They should be doing whatever they can to make you happy after their mistake.

StinkyMonkey 12-28-2012 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo (Post 7273767)
The only site that regularly puts out the numbers and residuals is ridewithg.com

Also, make sure you check out the ask-a-dealer forum as the money factors get stated for each car by multiple people on their (though the actual dealers shy away from posting too much of that information.)

You have not taken delivery of a car. You are under no obligation to accept their offer. Especially since you are now at the holiday time period and there are a bunch of incentives and such available to you. The money factor is indeed .00125 as a base rate provided your credit score is 675 or better. With 7 MSD it should be .00076

However, many dealers mark up a couple different items to make their profit and to make sure each department shows some profit. That is not a big deal. For example $500 over invoice shows CA made profit. The acq fee of $725 is marked up to max $925 showing manager making profit and then MF marked up say .0002 so F&I guy shows profit. This example gives the dealership a profit of around $1400 bucks when all is said and done. However, I would recommend, especially after the mistake, a BASE money factor and base acq fee and make sure you go to BMWconfig to know what the TRUE invoice price is and go up 500 from that BEFORE bringing in incentives such as the holiday cash.

Again, I strongly recommend reading up the ask-a-dealer forum.

Also, if your dealership has a service department odds are they have loaners. Talk to the GM about getting a f30 loaner with the sports transmission for the weekend as it may save them the hassle of having to order another car. They should be doing whatever they can to make you happy after their mistake.

Thanks for all that. Read through that subforum, took all your advice, and went back to the dealership today. I test drove the AT and MT back to back which reaffirmed my desire for the MT 328. Didn't have to take the loaner

As far as the number discussion went, it was a pain. My CA didn't really convey to me that he knew much about the MSD program, saying very few people do it. I later spoke to the guy who orders all the cars who pretty much offered me these locked in numbers:

Car at invoice
MF of 0.00116
Holiday credit of $1000

1. As far as the MF goes, the BMW ordering guy said that he always bumps the base MF by .00040 (the maximum allowed by BMW) in order to allow the BMWFS peeps to get their commission. So he bumped it to 0.00165 and then minus 0.00049 by 7 SD gives 0.00116, which is still better than the original MF they wanted to give me lat night at 0.00125. Didn't seem like he would budge on that +40 buy rate points policy he has...

2. In the breakdown of costs, a few other fees are listed which when looking back I don't know how they were derived
a. MSRP: $48, 795
b. Residual: 60%
c. Lease-end Value: $29,277
d. Initial Cap Cost: $45,430 (includes 1) Destination charge: $895 2) MACO: $400 3) Training/Service Fee: $180)
e. Customer Cash Down: $3,850
f. Rebate: $1000
g. Trade in: $3450 (an old car we wanted to get rid of which they thankfully took. Been casually trying to sell it privately without success)
h. Total sales tax: $1,715.63
i. Acq. Fee in cap: $925.00
j. Adjusted Cap Cost: $43,150
k. MF: 0.00116
l. Term: 36 mo
m. Mo use tax @ 8.5%: $39.90
n. CapTax1 Rt/Amt @ 8.5%: $272.43
o. Base Monthly Rental: $469.38
p. Total Monthly Payment: $509.28
q. Security Deposit: $3,850
r. Acq/Doc Upfrt(W): $100
s. Lic/Tire Upfrt(W): $406
t. Driveoff: $7,350
u. Total working Cash: $7,350

I made a spreadsheet of these numbers and no matter how I do it, I can't figure out how they got the total sales tax or adjusted cap cost. I just figured it would be something like:

Total sales tax: (Initial Cap Cost - Residual Value) * 8.5%
Adjusted Cap Cost: Initial Cap cost + (Total Sales Tax + Acq/Doc Upfrt(W) + Lic/Tire Upfrt(W) + Acq fee) - (Trade in + Rebate) *down payment going towards 7 SD*

And I have no idea what " CapTax1 Rt/Amt" is...

But anyway this still isn't coming out right. Any guidance you all may have about anything here would be great. Thanks for all the help guys. Love this place..

pony_trekker 12-28-2012 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StinkyMonkey (Post 7274951)

1. As far as the MF goes, the BMW ordering guy said that he always bumps the base MF by .00040 (the maximum allowed by BMW) in order to allow the BMWFS peeps to get their commission. So he bumped it to 0.00165 and then minus 0.00049 by 7 SD gives 0.00116, which is still better than the original MF they wanted to give me lat night at 0.00125. Didn't seem like he would budge on that +40 buy rate points policy he has...

.

Walk. Get a better deal from a board sponsor. I have leased 3 BMWs never at a penny more than the base money factor.

3ismagic# 12-28-2012 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pony_trekker (Post 7274960)
Walk. Get a better deal from a board sponsor. I have leased 3 BMWs never at a penny more than the base money factor.

+1 that's a sh!te deal.

chris328 12-28-2012 05:26 AM

the thing about the money factor is that the way the math is, it is almost negligible and barely makes a difference in your payment.

MonkeyCMonkeyDo 12-28-2012 06:38 AM

A couple things. It says you are in the Bay Area. It might be worth a train ride down to Santa Barbara to pick up a car from Jon Shafer (founder of this website) if not simply to have a great weekend and a pain free buying process. If not then you have another couple battles to go with this dealership.

First if they are marking up the full 4 points then there is no need to also mark up acq fee. Fight them hard on that one. In reality they shouldn't be marking up more than 2 points. At this point they are getting almost 1100 in profit from the markup and another 200 in acq fee. They may be hiding fees by grouping them but in california the most they can charge for doc fee is 80 yet they show 100 in your example. What does the car show on BMW config for invoice price? It should match his example minus maco and training. If not then he is bending you over a 3rd time.

You can get a much better deal by walking from this dealership.

justinnum1 12-28-2012 07:36 AM

Make sure you bring plenty of lube with you if you sign that deal.

eazy 12-28-2012 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris328 (Post 7275013)
the thing about the money factor is that the way the math is, it is almost negligible and barely makes a difference in your payment.

A .0004 markup on money factor adds about 20-25 a month to the lease price which means the op is getting about1500 above invoice instead of 500 above invoice.

Hagen21 12-28-2012 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1 (Post 7275209)
Make sure you bring plenty of lube with you if you sign that deal.

+1. Find a new dealer.

chris328 12-28-2012 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazy (Post 7275417)
A .0004 markup on money factor adds about 20-25 a month to the lease price which means the op is getting about1500 above invoice instead of 500 above invoice.

maybe i missed something but it sounded like he got them to go from .00125 to .00116. Thats a difference of about 6 or 7 dollars. Not twenty...

cchrisv 12-28-2012 11:21 AM

Find a better deal with one of the sponsors

1.) You are paying way over invoice. They screwed up your 1st order. They should be giving you a good price to make up for it
2.) They are marking up the MF
3.) They are marking up the Acquisition Fee

You are in Cali. There is no reason not to contact one of the many CA board sponsors. You'll get a better deal and they will get your order correct without having to fight. You can reach John the founder of the website and a CA in Santa Barbara, CA @ 1.805.303.6004. You'll be surprised how amazing a car buying experience can be.

I love how you are paying a ton of money for MSDs just to burn through their markup,lol

eazy 12-28-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris328 (Post 7275558)
maybe i missed something but it sounded like he got them to go from .00125 to .00116. Thats a difference of about 6 or 7 dollars. Not twenty...

Before the op did msd's the dealer mark up the mf to .00165.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms