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-   -   does it sound like a CPS or a CS problem? (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=666655)

911euro 12-28-2012 05:46 PM

does it sound like a CPS or a CS problem?
 
my 06 745Li with only 60K miles was giving me problem yesterday. On the way home, it certainly became really sluggish, the check engine light came on and a quick message about a transmission issue that i can't recall. i pulled to the side and turned it off. I then restarted it right away and the car vibrated like it was not running in all 8 cylinders and the check engine light was still on. I shut off the engine for about 8 minutes and then restarted it. This time the car ran smoother but the check engine light was still on. I drove it slowly and made it home. I have not plugged in the OBD2 scanner to see what the codes are since I didn't know where the obd2 port is. I think I do now after some searching, above the hood release handle. :)
Does it sound like the CPS or CS problem? Depending on the codes, would i need to replace all 4? Is it easy to do. i had done that to a mercedes E class but it had only 1 CPS.
Any advice you could give me, I truly appreciate it. :D

911euro 12-28-2012 07:00 PM

sorry it's an 05

911euro 12-28-2012 07:31 PM

how many CPS does it have? 2 or 4 pls? looks like 2 with a long wire right?

http://www.fixya.com/cars/t12524247-...sensor_located

thanks

745iguy 12-28-2012 09:16 PM

there are 4, 2 intake cam sensors and 2 exhaust cam sensors, but you should read the codes before you do anything.

911euro 12-30-2012 01:53 PM

gosh here are the codes: (so many :( )
P1727:
P0335: camshaft oosition sensor A circuit
P0270: cyl 4 injector circuit low
P0267: cyl 3 injector circuit low
P 0264: cyl 2 ignition circuit low
P0598: thermostat heater control circuit low
P2088: a camshaft position actuator control circuit low bank 1b. ******
P2090: b camshaft position actuator control circuit low bank 1c. *******
P0102: mass and vol air flow A circuit low
P0261: cyl 1 injector circuit low

it's the CPS problem that causes other issues to come up right? please give me your advice!!!
As 745iguy pointed out, if the CPS needs to be replaced? which one should I replace or all? any particular brand I should purchase? according to the picture from my link above, it looks like to replace the CPS, i just need to remove the top engine cover and i should have access to all of them right? is there any link to the how-to that anybody knows on top of your head? i will definitely do more searching on the how-to later on.
thank you in advance for your valuable advice.

745iguy 12-30-2012 04:34 PM

Im on mobile right now so cant see where you are from but cylinders 1-4 are passenger*** side in the US
Guessing on your codes id guess the intake cps on that bank. Get a new one and then take off the design cover and look at the rear of the engine. Tis held on with a torx screw and it has plug on top. Outof the 3 sensors on that side note the two similar ones. Those are the cos and installation is straight forward as you can imagine.

911euro 12-30-2012 08:21 PM

thank you 745iguy. yes i am in the US. i m going to buy a new cps tomorrow from a dealer and i try to replace it. should i replace all 4 since 1 already fails, others may follow soon? or it is a waste of $? :) i m surprised that it fails with only 60k miles.
thanks again. you have no idea how much i appreciate your valuable advice.

stuartjohn24 12-31-2012 03:30 PM

Ive been having fun with these too! check connectors for oil too, mine was causing issues and poor running but not throwing any codes!

Stuart

745iguy 12-31-2012 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911euro (Post 7280347)
thank you 745iguy. yes i am in the US. i m going to buy a new cps tomorrow from a dealer and i try to replace it. should i replace all 4 since 1 already fails, others may follow soon? or it is a waste of $? :) i m surprised that it fails with only 60k miles.
thanks again. you have no idea how much i appreciate your valuable advice.

If you want to i wouldnt tell you not to
All sensors should be replaced over time, even if they appear okay because they get fouled up.
Ps you're welcome :thumbup:

745iguy 12-31-2012 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuartjohn24 (Post 7281686)
Ive been having fun with these too! check connectors for oil too, mine was causing issues and poor running but not throwing any codes!

Stuart

Out of curiosity stuart, what were your symptoms? Rough running? Or more specific?

stuartjohn24 12-31-2012 05:07 PM

Hi 745i guy,

It was a mixture of things, symptoms when cold were misfiring causing severe vibration for 30 seconds after start if left idling.

During the warmup phase base once hot had many drive ability issues. Lagging in gears, I could be cruising doing 40mph at approx 1300rpm, hit the throttle depressing approx 10mm would result in an immediate dip of approx 150rpm, no acceleration just a loud exhaust noise. Very slow pickup, to accelerate you would need to push the accelerator down another inch or so almost to kickdown.

While cruising and approaching an incline the car would start slowing down and struggling unable to maintain a constant speed.

It was very annoying the DME would not show any errors but it would drive like a pig!

Sometimes, possibly 10% of the time after a cold or sometimes hot start it would drive amazing! Then bog down again.

I done an engine conversion on my old E46, removed the 1.8 4 pot and fitted a 2.5 6 pot, had similar issues, after a hot start it would stall when idling, turned out to be the camshaft sensor not being able to pick up the camshaft once it was hot.

The sensors are Hall effect, when hot and cranking the camshaft was not moving fast enough for the sensor to pick it up! That didn't throw any codes either!

I do wonder if the EU DME software is more ignorant to engine sensor faults than US spec ones.

Problem is the DME uses the cam sensors for the VANOS timing and I'm convinced that after time these sensors become less sensitive and introduce a lag or delay in the camshaft position information for the DME making it think the camshaft is in a position that its actually not. This I believe is causing the very poor performance.

I would recommend changing all 4 sensors! Wish I had the cash to at the moment! Simply cleaning and swapping them around has dramatically improved mine so far!

Stuart

Edit: one other thing, you can get prolonged cranking times when starting or starting then misfiring immediately. This also points to dodgy/intermittent cam sensors. Again when hot it would misfire when starting or crank over a few more times than normal. As you know they usually start immediately.

745iguy 12-31-2012 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuartjohn24 (Post 7281792)
Hi 745i guy,

It was a mixture of things, symptoms when cold were misfiring causing severe vibration for 30 seconds after start if left idling.

During the warmup phase base once hot had many drive ability issues. Lagging in gears, I could be cruising doing 40mph at approx 1300rpm, hit the throttle depressing approx 10mm would result in an immediate dip of approx 150rpm, no acceleration just a loud exhaust noise. Very slow pickup, to accelerate you would need to push the accelerator down another inch or so almost to kickdown.

While cruising and approaching an incline the car would start slowing down and struggling unable to maintain a constant speed.

It was very annoying the DME would not show any errors but it would drive like a pig!

Sometimes, possibly 10% of the time after a cold or sometimes hot start it would drive amazing! Then bog down again.

I done an engine conversion on my old E46, removed the 1.8 4 pot and fitted a 2.5 6 pot, had similar issues, after a hot start it would stall when idling, turned out to be the camshaft sensor not being able to pick up the camshaft once it was hot.

The sensors are Hall effect, when hot and cranking the camshaft was not moving fast enough for the sensor to pick it up! That didn't throw any codes either!

I do wonder if the EU DME software is more ignorant to engine sensor faults than US spec ones.

Problem is the DME uses the cam sensors for the VANOS timing and I'm convinced that after time these sensors become less sensitive and introduce a lag or delay in the camshaft position information for the DME making it think the camshaft is in a position that its actually not. This I believe is causing the very poor performance.

I would recommend changing all 4 sensors! Wish I had the cash to at the moment! Simply cleaning and swapping them around has dramatically improved mine so far!

Stuart

Edit: one other thing, you can get prolonged cranking times when starting or starting then misfiring immediately. This also points to dodgy/intermittent cam sensors. Again when hot it would misfire when starting or crank over a few more times than normal. As you know they usually start immediately.

Interesting and thanks for explaining. I wonder how my cps are. Sometimes on cold starts it is rough but after warmup its smooth. Quite the opposite than your symptoms. Just more things for me to jot down :thumbup:

911euro 01-03-2013 12:38 PM

hi, the cps i ordered came today. there is instruction that comes with it. The instruction mentions that "the DME control unit needs to be checked with regard to the data inout and, if necessary, reprogrammed". Is this necessary? i am asking because if it needs some sort of re-program, i will not be able to do since all i have is a OBD2 scanner. i was hoping that it's plug and play just like the benz i did.
please advise before i proceed to replace them.
again thanks.
Tom

745iguy 01-03-2013 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911euro (Post 7287315)
hi, the cps i ordered came today. there is instruction that comes with it. The instruction mentions that "the DME control unit needs to be checked with regard to the data inout and, if necessary, reprogrammed". Is this necessary? i am asking because if it needs some sort of re-program, i will not be able to do since all i have is a OBD2 scanner. i was hoping that it's plug and play just like the benz i did.
please advise before i proceed to replace them.
again thanks.
Tom

You should be okay it only had one revision (cps itself), if your car was serviced at the dealer for its service and warranty period it probably received some updates in the cars software. Hard to check that for sure without inpa. Replace it if it acts up still double check plugs and if not you may need an update. Doubt that though

stuartjohn24 01-03-2013 02:47 PM

Hi Tom,

That's interesting! Is this an OEM sensor from the dealer?

I know the later MAF sensors are different and send a PWM type output instead of a voltage, perhaps this is similar.

Can you post part numbers and as much info off the paperwork as possible?

Cheers

Stuart

911euro 01-03-2013 08:33 PM

the part # 12147518628 which matches the info on the link below that a part manager from a local BMW dealership gave me to double check.

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...=12&fg=05&hl=2

i bought many OEM parts from a local part shop. i did bring a CPS i bought from them to a local benz dealer and it was checked out as genuine/OEM CPS unit. i will post a picture of the cps unit i just bought for the 745Li. i m on an ipad now, can't attach a picture without uploading it some where first.

i will go ahead and replace the 2 CPS on the passenger side tomorrow or saturday as you advised. there is no turning back now :) the 7 series bmw are so high tech, i am so afraid to work on it .

thanks

911euro 01-03-2013 08:49 PM

here is the picture of the cps
https://picasaweb.google.com/1090213...50999811490914

911euro 01-03-2013 09:43 PM

ok lets try again

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-M...1152/image.jpg

stuartjohn24 01-04-2013 12:11 AM

It's OK, no need to worry, it only refers to reprogramming the DME if its used on an E46 M52 engine (323, 328). There is no reprogramming required for the 7.

Hope this helps.

Stuart

911euro 01-04-2013 01:31 PM

could you please point them out to me where are the intake and exhaust CPS from these pictures? gosh feel so stupid :(
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X...s128/image.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t...s512/image.jpg
thanks

stuartjohn24 01-04-2013 01:55 PM

No worries!

You can't see them in those pictures, if you pull off the grey plastic covers with BMW written on them (they are just held on with a clip/dowel in a rubber grommet.

They are right at the back, can't miss them, the inlet sensor is right next to the eccentric shaft sensor. (Connector is round on the eccentric shaft)

The exhaust sensor is lower down, you should be able to follow the 8mm diameter conduit to the sensors.

In fact on the second photo you can see the two small pieces of conduit, each one goes to each sensor. You can't mix them up, the wires aren't long enough.

Yours looks like LHD as you main engine harness routes across to the left if looking from the front, the sensors are basically just under there, try the sensors on the right bank first so you can see better what your doing.

Hope that helps!

911euro 01-04-2013 02:39 PM

is this it? :)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9...photolarge.JPG

911euro 01-04-2013 02:40 PM

that's on the driver side. I assume that I need to replace the 2 on the passenger's side. Is that right?

thanks

stuartjohn24 01-04-2013 03:00 PM

Yep thats them, Yes sorry, you will need to change the one on the other side if thats the one thats causing you issues. its a bit more difficult due to the wiring loom in the way!

Stuart

745iguy 01-04-2013 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911euro (Post 7290186)
that's on the driver side. I assume that I need to replace the 2 on the passenger's side. Is that right?

thanks

Sounds right if its saying banks 1-4 for the codes that is bank1 pass side and 5-8 is bank 2 on drivers side. Replace it if the codes remain switch with the other one on the same side should be okay usually they dont fail by the twos.


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