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-   -   Amazed by the ' (un)reliability ' comments about this SUV. (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667125)

roy528 12-31-2012 07:34 AM

Amazed by the ' (un)reliability ' comments about this SUV.
 
I have posted a couple of questions regarding which luxury SUV is 'THE ONE" to buy.

What I find -almost astounding - is the number of comments that say something like 'Well now that the X5 is 7 years old - it is finally quite reliable and all the bugs have been worked out so you can feel confident about buying one." Or" I bought or would recommend that you buy today's version rather than the first year of the gen three -X5. Never buy a first year BMW."
If that was said about any other brand - especially a LUXURY- high dollar brand it would be a death blow to sales and would quickly go off the "To be considered" list.

That said- I am also not sure this worry is appropriate-at least in re: the upcoming Gen three X5.
The 8 speed tranny has been around for quite a while now and is -as far as I know rock solid. The 4 and 6 cylinder twin turbo motors & diesel have also been around for a long time - and they seem to be reliable.
I assume this tranny and these motors along with some hybrid will be the power trains offered in Gen 3. My guess is , if anything, they may have tinkered with all of the above to squeeze a few more miles out of a gallon of fuel . That's a good thing.

So where is the disconnect? What goes wrong with these cars? What is the basis of this
seeming 'consensus' that one has to accept a degree of unreliability if one wants to drive a bimmer?
P.S. I'm still loving my 528iX - quirks and all.

ATL_Guy67 12-31-2012 07:53 AM

Take my feedback as just one data point. I am not sure if I am expecting too much from a car or if our experience is unique. My wife and I are relatively new to the BMW brand, bought X3 and X5 diesel new in 2011. My wife had 2001 RX300 was hesitant to switch from Lexus. I had a 2000 Toyota 4Runner 4x4 Limited. We bought both cars new. The Lexus ran flawlessly until the day we sold it. Had to replace the drive power door lock ($670). The 4Runner a bad coolant temperature sensor and had to replace the power antenna mast & motor a couple of times.

My X5 diesel has had 4 Check Engine errors and at least 2 recalls. My wife's X3 had at least 1 recall and 1 (maybe 2) Check Engine Light errors. Granted, her car was the first year so I am not surprised. Many of our friends drive BMW and seem surprisingly loyal given the issues that they experience which I thought was weird. One of our friends who had a gen 1 X3 said that she pays $1500 every year on mx and issues. She treats it as a given. I put up with the issues because of the way the car looks and drives. I never thought of my self as a car until I bought our BMWs. I still look forward to drive home in my X5 -- even after almost 2 years. I never felt that with our Lexus or Toyota. The 4Runner drove like a boat and the seats were extremely uncomfortable. Hope this information is what you were looking for.

Billyraymallard 12-31-2012 08:42 AM

It is what it is. Havent been stranded by a car since the early 90's. That is, until I bought a BMW. Have some fun and talk with a tow truck operator. Ask how often he has a Lexus or BMW on a flatbed. He will say once in a blue moon, but BMW every day.

onebadgix 12-31-2012 09:01 AM

I think people like what they like. I have experienced several problems with my corvette C5, but I still LOVE driving it and I'm considering getting a c6 as soon as the c7 comes out. I also love driving my BMW despite 2 check engine lights and my Sirius radio crapping out for no apparent reason. Paid $200 for the dealer to disable it because it knocked out everything radio related.

AutoUnion 12-31-2012 09:31 AM

Generally the pre-LCI X5s seem to be terrible in terms of issues. The LCI is pretty solid. 07-08 E70s were terrible I've had my car for almost 20 months now. Zero issues, except needing a new oil level sensor. That's it. I've tried all the German brands and except Mercedes (never again), I've never run into a POS car.

That being said, there are still tons of issues with the 35i. HPFP, injectors, etc. not solid at all. The diesel seems to be the most sorted of the bunch.

Comparing luxury SUVs, in general, of course, the German brands are going to be ranked lower. Lots of things can go wrong with them. What's interesting is that in the most recent JDPOWER, Mercedes was ranked higher than Acura, Honda, Hyundai. Crazy.

I guess German car owners do put up with some "issues" to have a better driving car. You couldn't pay me to go buy an Infiniti or Acura. BMW/Audi/Mercedes/Lexus. I'll do it all day long.

GoHawks63 12-31-2012 09:48 AM

Like a previous poster I am also new to BMW. The X5 is my wife's daily driver prior to that she has had a 2004 Toyota Land Cruiser, 1998 Toyota Land Cruiser and a couple of Nissan Pathfinders. I have been driving Acuras for close to 20 years before making a jump to a 2012 CTS Coupe thise year.

My uncle is a mechanic who owns his own shop and I grew up working on cars, so tend to know my way around cars. At one point in my early college years I though I was also going to stay in the business until I got serious about school, got a degree and worked my way up in the corporate world.

My uncle and cousins see cars well out of warranty and they will tell you that from a reliability standpoint, nothing will ever beat Hondas or Toyotas. Of course everyone has their story of their Ford Pickup or their BMW with well into six digits on the odometer, but as a whole and based on what they see everyday they feel that nothing will beat those two Japanese brands from a reliability standpoint. As for my personal experience, the two Toyota Land Cruisers we owned were bullt proof. Not the most gratifying driving experiences, but rock solid from a reliability perspective. My Acuras were also generally solid with an occasional issue here or there over the years, but minor enough that I stayed with the brand over the years.

When it came to buying the X5, my cousin told me that nothing drives like a BMW, but God help you if you ever have to pay for repairs out of your own pocket. We bought anyway figuring we have a warranty and if the vehicle seems problematic, we will dump it before the warranty expires.

Having said all that, I will say that I really do enjoy driving the X5. I am impressed with the driving dynamics and I can see why people gravitate to them. Now since I haven't experienced any issues yet,I haven't been tainted by quality and reliability issues. If and when that does creep up, we'll see if I am still as high on the vehicle as I am now.

GoHawks63 12-31-2012 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 7281170)
Generally the pre-LCI X5s seem to be terrible in terms of issues. The LCI is pretty solid. 07-08 E70s were terrible I've had my car for almost 20 months now. Zero issues, except needing a new oil level sensor. That's it. I've tried all the German brands and except Mercedes (never again), I've never run into a POS car.

That being said, there are still tons of issues with the 35i. HPFP, injectors, etc. not solid at all. The diesel seems to be the most sorted of the bunch.

Comparing luxury SUVs, in general, of course, the German brands are going to be ranked lower. Lots of things can go wrong with them. What's interesting is that in the most recent JDPOWER, Mercedes was ranked higher than Acura, Honda, Hyundai. Crazy.

I guess German car owners do put up with some "issues" to have a better driving car. You couldn't pay me to go buy an Infiniti or Acura. BMW/Audi/Mercedes/Lexus. I'll do it all day long.

Newbie question. What does LCI stand for?

AutoUnion 12-31-2012 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoHawks63 (Post 7281208)
Newbie question. What does LCI stand for?

Life Cycle Impulse. Basically mid-model facelift/refresh

E70 got it in 2011. The front became more aggressive and the back changed a little too. Major details are LED Coronas, and LED taillights.

GoHawks63 12-31-2012 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 7281216)
Life Cycle Impulse. Basically mid-model facelift/refresh

E70 got it in 2011. The front became more aggressive and the back changed a little too. Major details are LED Coronas, and LED taillights.

Thanks. Ours is a 2011 and I knew it was the first year of the refresh, I didn't know it was referred to as LCI.

Thanks again.

brian5 12-31-2012 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 7281170)
Generally the pre-LCI X5s seem to be terrible in terms of issues. The LCI is pretty solid. 07-08 E70s were terrible <>

OK, stopped reading there. Where on earth do you get the info that the 2008 E70's were terrible??? :dunno:

I've been happy with mine... Generally, you're going to find the later the year, the fewer the number of reported problems. That's just the way things are...

AutoUnion 12-31-2012 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brian5 (Post 7281615)
OK, stopped reading there. Where on earth do you get the info that the 2008 E70's were terrible??? :dunno:

I've been happy with mine... Generally, you're going to find the later the year, the fewer the number of reported problems. That's just the way things are...

Pretty much every Consumer Reports, JDPower, TrueDelta. They rank the pre-LCI as junk.

I'm gonna stick to my rule of thumb with BMWs. Wait until the LCI

ChuckGr 12-31-2012 11:21 PM

AutoUnion,

My 2010 X5 35D have been great. It has never been in the shop except when I got oil changes and for brakes.

Chuck

Vex500 01-01-2013 12:52 AM

My 2008 E70 hasn't had any issues either. Spoken to anyone who has owned an early Cayenne........!?

gresch 01-01-2013 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 7281624)
Pretty much every Consumer Reports, JDPower, TrueDelta. They rank the pre-LCI as junk.

I'm gonna stick to my rule of thumb with BMWs. Wait until the LCI

My '08 was and still is rock solid. Just sayin'


so is my '12 diesel.

*knocks on wood

Rickm5X3 01-01-2013 08:30 AM

Trouble free 08 here too. But autoUnion you got it all figured out man. :thumbup:

JohnMN 01-01-2013 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 7281170)
Generally the pre-LCI X5s seem to be terrible in terms of issues. The LCI is pretty solid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 7281216)
Life Cycle Impulse. Basically mid-model facelift/refresh
E70 got it in 2011. The front became more aggressive and the back changed a little too. Major details are LED Coronas, and LED taillights.

This doesn't make sense. Refresh the front/rear body design, throw on some LEDs, and voila the car is more reliable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoUnion (Post 7281624)
Pretty much every Consumer Reports, JDPower, TrueDelta. They rank the pre-LCI as junk.

Might want to check your facts. TrueDelta has the 2011's at a repair frequency of 61 and the 2010's at a repair frequency of 52. The lower the score the better.

ard 01-01-2013 09:43 AM

Yawn.

A forum where members are arguing about the reliability of their cars.

Let me bookmark this....

Rickm5X3 01-01-2013 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ard (Post 7282549)
Yawn.

A forum where members are arguing about the reliability of their cars.

Let me bookmark this....

lol. :) I should have called it that this would be your post.

roy528 01-01-2013 10:00 AM

Here' a thought. When the Japanese cars had gotten past their infancy and started bringing over real cars that were quite reliable, people started buying them in droves and stopped buying GM,Ford,Chrysler.
This forced the 'big 3' to start making more reliable cars. And when they finally did so -( it took them a while to get it ) they stopped losing sales to the 'foreign cars'. I would bet if people stopped buying BMW's . MB's -whatever because of reliability issues- these cars would quickly get more reliable. The 2004 MB E series is a case in point. The worst car they made in a long time ( I know I owned one- it was awful -I won a lemon law case with it) and sales of the E series in the following years reflected this.
As it is said-'It's the money stupid'. I doubt that these companies do not have the ability to make these cars bullet proof- just look at Porsche. There is a reason why people pay up another $15-$20K for the Cayenne. It is a better car. It is not only a better performer but it is more reliable as well.
I have owned many Porsches - and for the most part- they have been trouble free- and performance was wonderful. Yes there were a few models that were notorious for issues, but for the most part Porsche builds a very reliable and quite 'zippy' vehicle. Why is it that
BMW seems to only get part of this equation right? ( Brickbats acknowledged)
My sense is that MB is generally more reliable ( at least now it is) than BMW . But BMW is a better performing sportier car. So, BMW buyers put up with this to get this performance. I have noticed that MB is
putting more emphasis in sport- not just AMG- but for example the new E -series now comes in a Sport and Luxury version. Perhaps MB is on to something.
Now - all of my assumptions may not be spot on- and I am sure there are those who will take issue with parts- if not all of this missive.
But one thing is for sure. If The Cayenne and The X5 were the same price- there would be a whole lot of model year mark downs on the BMW lots. Better is not just more fun to drive- it is also about reliability. Just sayin. I will now begin the rest of my life under an assumed name.

AzNMpower32 01-01-2013 10:08 AM

The emissions control system for the North American diesel X5 seems to have been a slight sore spot, dogged by SES lights and various recalls and campaigns. Given that this was the first time BMW tried out the urea injection, perhaps not much of a surprise there. The same drivetrain X5 3.0sd has been sold for awhile outside the US but didn't need the urea injection to meet CARB standards, so BMW worked around that to make it compliant. But with workarounds, there tends to be a higher risk of unforeseen issues that require updates and the occasional recall.

The rest of the issues seem to be centred around the electrical systems, on which the vehicle is very dependent. These vehicles are intended to be driven, so BMWs that don't see a lot of driving or highway stretches tend to be unable to maintain sufficient charge, and then a whole host of gremlins can crop up.

My dad's 2010 X5 has been less than reliable, between the build quality (abnormal wind noises, rattles, squeaks) and the two issues mentioned above. He plugs it in to charge the battery every weekend, similar to a plug-in hybrid.

NoI4plz 01-01-2013 02:40 PM

E70 from year to year has various forms of the same component. Each year the form is changed to reflect fixes, hence the last year it should be much more reliable then say the first year. The f15 is a whole new platform and has the latest in BMW engineering so it has new tech vs the e70's old tech.

Old tech will always be more reliable then the cutting edge of technology. The principle behind this is that, the technology that is dated will have been tested significantly more than say something that just came out, since the real world is not a simulation. These real world experiences would provide problem-fixes and updates on the same component.

This is evident in anything these days, from iPhones, tvs, your watch, or say a brand new car.

That's not to say that there will be cases where you'll have reliable tech. However reliabilty statistics are aimed at answering how reliable the majority of vehicles are in the subset, not the individual members of the subset.

If you value a reliable driving experience buy an economy car they'll serve your purpose well
If you value anything above that then get what you want and be prepared to pay for that enhanced experience.

Reliability in luxury cars ain't nothing but a chicken wing!

smyles 01-02-2013 01:55 PM

Ironically, almost all new threads about problems are from LCI owners...

Dirtbag 01-03-2013 09:29 AM

As mentioned before, forums seem to attract two types of owners - those happy with it and want to improve and interact with others and those that have problems. I am still too new as the owner of a BMW, but I will let you know how I fare in (hopefully) years to come. As to statements re: having not bought for reliablity, that's bunk. Just because a vehicle drives nicer than another or better for that fact; for what is paid they should be damn reliable and no excuse for BMW to be less than the $20M throwaway vehicle. JMO

roy528 01-03-2013 09:37 AM

That's my thinking. But some owners believe that the king is wearing clothes no matter what.
A great car is not only one that does things very well- it is also very reliable .
The Jaguars of old were beautiful and fun to drive- But they broke down very often
and people finally stopped buying them.

Dirtbag 01-03-2013 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy528 (Post 7286844)
That's my thinking. But some owners believe that the king is wearing clothes no matter what.
A great car is not only one that does things very well- it is also very reliable .
The Jaguars of old were beautiful and fun to drive- But they broke down very often
and people finally stopped buying them.

Amen:angel:


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