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-   -   Throttle Hesitation - DRIVING US NUTS!!! (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667244)

greyX1 12-31-2012 08:49 PM

Throttle Hesitation - DRIVING US NUTS!!!
 
OK, we have had our X1 a few months, and it's really a second car, but in the few (1500) miles we have driven it we have been repeatedly honked at and been in a couple of close calls because of the stupid throttle hesitation. There is always about a 1 sec lag between pushing down on the pedal and the engine kicking in. It doesn't matter if you push down harder on the throttle, because then when it does kick in it is just more throttle.

My suspicion is that this delay has something to do with the Auto Start Stop (code named ASS for a reason), which we had the dealer default to off, so we don't have to deal with it. I have a feeling that by this time next year, the ASS function will be no more.

So are other people having the same problem? Or do we need to take the car back to the dealer to be inspected?

Seriously, a full second between pressing on the pedal and having the car respond!

2625 12-31-2012 09:35 PM

It has been discussed back in October. I have the same problem but did not force the dealer to look into it. Just worried that they might make it worst if they dont know the fix.

nospam 12-31-2012 10:04 PM

This has nothing to do with ASS. :bigpimp:

The throttle delay is programmed by BMW for your own protection (fuel conservation). :rolleyes:

Throttle response is worst in ECO PRO. It should be better in D/Drive and best in S/Sport.

There are also aftermarket solutions which improve throttle response.

Perlova 01-01-2013 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greyX1 (Post 7281973)

So are other people having the same problem? Or do we need to take the car back to the dealer to be inspected?

Seriously, a full second between pressing on the pedal and having the car respond!


Phew... glad to hear that everyone is experiencing this issue. I though I was beginning to lose feeling in by right foot.

I does make it tough to accelerate smoothly from a stop. I hate those jackrabbit starts.

kjboyd 01-01-2013 08:56 AM

Have a read of the sticky in the X3 forum. Wonder if it is related?

nospam 01-01-2013 09:57 AM

I'm trying to tell you folks that this is due to drive-by-wire and has been the case with BMWs in some form for close to 10 years.

This solution is for the 6 cylinder non-turbo models: http://burgertuning.com/BMS_Power_Box.html

I confirmed with BMS that their stage 1 N20 tune includes throttle remapping: http://burgertuning.com/N20_BMW_performance_Tuner.html

Their N55 tunes address this as well.

greyX1 01-01-2013 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nospam (Post 7282471)
I'm trying to tell you folks that this is due to drive-by-wire and has been the case with BMWs in some form for close to 10 years.

This solution is for the 6 cylinder non-turbo models: http://burgertuning.com/BMS_Power_Box.html

I confirmed with BMS that their stage 1 N20 tune includes throttle remapping: http://burgertuning.com/N20_BMW_performance_Tuner.html

Their N55 tunes address this as well.

done - i'm buying it. i almost don't like driving the car anymore.

greyX1 01-01-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nospam (Post 7282046)
This has nothing to do with ASS. :bigpimp:

The throttle delay is programmed by BMW for your own protection (fuel conservation). :rolleyes:

Throttle response is worst in ECO PRO. It should be better in D/Drive and best in S/Sport.

There are also aftermarket solutions which improve throttle response.


We never drive in ECO PRO. How does BMW figure it's saving fuel when you end up stomping down on the accelerator even more during the delay, then having the car take off unexpectedly when the ECU finally decides to send fuel to the engine?

greyX1 01-01-2013 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2625 (Post 7282022)
It has been discussed back in October. I have the same problem but did not force the dealer to look into it. Just worried that they might make it worst if they dont know the fix.

Yeah I read the thread - that was dealing with what sounds like an actual misfire or hesitation under acceleration when the car was already moving. I hoping to find out if everyone experiences this pretty consistent this one-second delay when accelerating from a stop with ASS off, in D. I'd like to know if there's a problem with our X1 or if BMW just blew it and programmed every ECU in hopes of saving fuel (which in this case seems to do the opposite).

nospam 01-01-2013 11:36 AM

Move your shifter lever over to the left, sport mode should offer some improvement.

I am installing the BMS Stage 1 once the break-in period has ended.

greyX1 01-01-2013 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nospam (Post 7282648)
Move your shifter lever over to the left, sport mode should offer some improvement.

I am installing the BMS Stage 1 once the break-in period has ended.

The problem with DS is the shifts happen at higher RPM. even wen driving lighly, which definitely drops MPG.

I just ordered the BMS unit ;)

Kar Don 01-01-2013 11:41 AM

I bet the 35i models don't do it since they have the 6spd auto

greyX1 01-01-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kar Don (Post 7282659)
I bet the 35i models don't do it since they have the 6spd auto

The delay happens before the transmission even sees any torque. The engine sits quietly for a full second after depressing the accelerator before responding at all, so why would it be different with the 3.0L/6sp? Same ECU I bet. Anyone with the 3.0 see this too?

Expecting the BMS unit in 2-5 days... I'll report back in a new post after the install, hopefully on the weekend. We're at about 2k miles now, so I feel comfortable changing the maps a bit. Won't drive it too hard though, I promise! Even if the unit only remapped this stupid drive-by-wire delay, I would be happy...

nospam 01-01-2013 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kar Don (Post 7282659)
I bet the 35i models don't do it since they have the 6spd auto

I have a 2009 128i and had a 2009 335i, it still occurs with the 6AT (not quite a full second though). It is not the transmission. We always slide over to S when we need performance.

HotRodW 01-01-2013 12:05 PM

I'm amazed that BMW refuses to address this issue. They may have good intentions with throttles that fight back, runflat tires and ASS, but the features detract from the driving experience so much it has to have an effect on repeat sales. Should you really have to go to the aftermarket to get decent throttle response? On a BMW?!?!

greyX1 01-01-2013 12:25 PM

Wow, if you search "hesitation" there are a bunch of threads related to older engines/models. They refer to the hesitation as "tip-in" also. Seems like BMW has attempted to address the issue in other models by updating the software maps. I can't find anything about the N20 and hesitation yet though, except for that earlier thread in this forum where some people mention also experiencing it, but that was also discussing misfire under acceleration which this definitely is not.

cblandin 01-01-2013 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotRodW (Post 7282705)
I'm amazed that BMW refuses to address this issue. They may have good intentions with throttles that fight back, runflat tires and ASS, but the features detract from the driving experience so much it has to have an effect on repeat sales. Should you really have to go to the aftermarket to get decent throttle response? On a BMW?!?!

This is definitely true for me. When we test drove the X3, Q5 and Volvo XC60 the X3 had such horrible tip-in it was a huge black mark against it. We ended up with the Volvo (traded in our 530i for it). This was before the X3's tip-in software fix was released this past spring. Even now, that fix seems to be only a partial fix...tough to tell over on the X3 forum if it has stuck.

Farkled 01-01-2013 09:10 PM

I recently test drove an SDrive X1, an xDrive 35i X1, and a loaded M Sport 35i X3 and I remember being surprised by the drive by wire lag on the SDrive and X3 ( the X3 really lurched too). I know that the drive by wire programming is separate from the transmission but the X1 35i with the six speed did not leave me feeling like there was the same dead zone in the pedal/throttle lag or lurching, perhaps it is just different programming. I drove in manual mode/sport with all three

nospam 01-01-2013 10:09 PM

Sport mode has improved throttle response. Interesting that you detected a difference between the 28i and 35i. It would be great if they fixed this in software.

Kar Don 01-02-2013 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greyX1 (Post 7282680)
The delay happens before the transmission even sees any torque. The engine sits quietly for a full second after depressing the accelerator before responding at all, so why would it be different with the 3.0L/6sp? Same ECU I bet. Anyone with the 3.0 see this too?

Expecting the BMS unit in 2-5 days... I'll report back in a new post after the install, hopefully on the weekend. We're at about 2k miles now, so I feel comfortable changing the maps a bit. Won't drive it too hard though, I promise! Even if the unit only remapped this stupid drive-by-wire delay, I would be happy...

Ummm actually it has a LOT to do with the transmission. My X5d doesn't delay 1 bit, drive a 35i with 8 spd and it has massive delay. Software mapping comes with the transmission. Try revving your car in neutral, won't have any delay.

douggie 01-02-2013 01:55 AM

The X3 has the issue as well. It is documented and tested with accelerometers and GPS:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...e28i_update_8/

It's shocking to see that BMW has not taken any action over such a report and the problem is across other models like the F10.

vbbuilt 01-02-2013 07:48 AM

Interesting discussion! Guess I never really noticed it, but then, this is the 4th turbo 4 cyl vehicle I've owned, so I attributed that hesitation to turbo lag. I've simply adjusted my driving habits to it. Not a big deal for me.

Vince.

nospam 01-02-2013 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by douggie (Post 7283974)
The X3 has the issue as well. It is documented and tested with accelerometers and GPS:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...e28i_update_8/

It's shocking to see that BMW has not taken any action over such a report and the problem is across other models like the F10.

Isn't the 2011 X3 28i the old N52 inline6 with a 6speed? This is about what I observe on our E82 and E90, no more than a half second delay.

Are people experiencing a full second with the 8AT? I have not noticed a full second on the F30 (or the X1s I've test driven), even in ECO PRO.

iamthewalrus 01-02-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greyX1 (Post 7282553)
We never drive in ECO PRO. How does BMW figure it's saving fuel when you end up stomping down on the accelerator even more during the delay, then having the car take off unexpectedly when the ECU finally decides to send fuel to the engine?

It's not BMW; they're just placating the regulators. It's the EPA and DOT and their byzantine rules that are the issue. I'm sure auto makers get credit for these features in the reported EPA mileage numbers, even if drivers systematically ignore or circumvent them.

At some point, all of this technology is actually taking away from the driving experience. While up in Seattle last weekend, I borrowed my friend's 1996 BMW 325Cic for the weekend. What a phenomenally fun car! With only a 5-speed manual, 189 horsepower, and weighing ~3,000 pounds, it was the most fun BMW I've driven in years. No "Eco Mode", no hesitation, no technological gimmicks.

-James
San Francisco, CA and Seattle, WA

douggie 01-02-2013 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nospam (Post 7284357)
Isn't the 2011 X3 28i the old N52 inline6 with a 6speed? This is about what I observe on our E82 and E90, no more than a half second delay.

Are people experiencing a full second with the 8AT? I have not noticed a full second on the F30 (or the X1s I've test driven), even in ECO PRO.

The one they tested is with the 8AT.
http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/on...ict/specs.html


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