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-   -   Dreaded coolant leak!! (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=667997)

vegas645 01-04-2013 04:20 PM

Dreaded coolant leak!!
 
I took the 6 in to see about a leak and this is what the Indy said needed to be done:

engine mounts (leaked all fluid)
valve cover (leaking oil)
transmission pan
coolant pipe (leaking coolant all the way to the tailpipe)
front control arms (car shakes)
gas cap


I was quoted between 3k to 4k.

How was your day!!!

tampamark 01-04-2013 05:37 PM

That is a whole lot of bad, I feel for you. It should be titled "dreaded everything", not just coolant!

FredoinSF 01-04-2013 08:08 PM

If I take my car in for a coolant leak and they find a laundry list of stuff including the gas cap I would start questioning things. If you asked for a full inspection or mentioned other issues that's another story, but the gas cap - really?? How did they find it defective in the process of looking for the source of a coolant leak??

None of these are rare failure points as the miles accumulate, but it's a big list if all you took it in for was a coolant leak fix. You must be frustrated if all these issues were unexpected.

vegas645 01-04-2013 10:20 PM

I wanted to get a second opinion before any work was done. I now have a knocking noise coming from the front end when the car is moving. I am taking it to a different Indy tommorrow. I have been pleased with the work he's done to this point.

Oh, and he charged me $105 to diagnose and $30 for the damn gas cap!!

Not real happy right now!!

dubzz24 01-04-2013 11:35 PM

What do you mean "leaking coolant all the way to the tailpipe"? There shouldn't be any coolant any further back than the heater core (under your dash). Whoever you took the car to sounds a little scheming. Good call on getting another opinion.

645/333 01-05-2013 04:02 AM

Hi! The dreaded coolant leak is actually the pipe that runs inside the engine front to back, above the cylinder block, where the rubber seals fail and it weeps out of the front of the engine, there is a tiny hole it comes out of!
Any other coolant leak is pretty standard, as it is the above leak that costs the major $'s. BMW split the engine whilst others are using the engineered kit from various suppliers.
The only good news in a sense is that to repair this you will naturally change all of the seals/gaskets etc to get to the part!!!!!!

tampamark 01-05-2013 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredoinSF (Post 7290975)
If I take my car in for a coolant leak and they find a laundry list of stuff including the gas cap I would start questioning things. If you asked for a full inspection or mentioned other issues that's another story, but the gas cap - really?? How did they find it defective in the process of looking for the source of a coolant leak??


A bad gas cap seal will throw a code on most cars now, at least I know it does on the Euro cars. It is not an unusual failure item!

FredoinSF 01-05-2013 09:37 AM

I know the gas caps can start deteriorating and throw a code. My point was that if the OP took it in for a cooling issue and nothing else, I can kind of understand the shop pointing all the underhood stuff as they poke around, but going as far as the gas cap seems like padding the bill - unless there was a code. This list really depends on what the OP asked for.
Reminds me of my partners MINI that went in for a O2 sensor covered under warranty and came back with 5k laundry list and basically told him the car was one key turn away from self destruction. Some of it was legit such as bushings and all which I had taken care of by my independent but the rest was a tactic to make service dept numbers go up and \ or send him off with a brand new car. 18 months later it still runs like a champ.

dubzz24 01-05-2013 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 645/333 (Post 7291391)
Hi! The dreaded coolant leak is actually the pipe that runs inside the engine front to back

Exactly, so why would coolant be anywhere near the tailpipe?! OP where do you see the coolant?

Yorgi 01-05-2013 05:35 PM

Sorry to hear about the big laundry list but those are all common wear items.

The shop probably did a scan and found the gas cap error. I've changed at least 3 gas caps over the years on German cars, countless control arms and valve cover gaskets on 2.

A bad coolant leak could down the transmission onto the exhaust pipes then easily run down the pipes to exhaust canisters, especially if you park the car on an incline (like in your sig).

The noise from the front and shaking is a pretty good indication that the front control arms are shot.

amanra 01-07-2013 11:31 AM

Crap!!

Sorry to hear about this, I've experienced all of these issues at separate times. I was lucky to have my aftermarket warranty cover these repairs for me, but there was a point where every 2 months I was experiencing something new, and that can be frustrating. In this case, you can get this entire list completed in 1 shot which is much better than what I had to go through.

645/333 01-07-2013 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorgi (Post 7292631)
Sorry to hear about the big laundry list but those are all common wear items.

The shop probably did a scan and found the gas cap error. I've changed at least 3 gas caps over the years on German cars, countless control arms and valve cover gaskets on 2.

A bad coolant leak could down the transmission onto the exhaust pipes then easily run down the pipes to exhaust canisters, especially if you park the car on an incline (like in your sig).

The noise from the front and shaking is a pretty good indication that the front control arms are shot.

Hi Yorgi! showing my ignorance hear! the gas cap, is that the same as the petrol tank cap?? And if so what goes wrong with them that causes a code to be raised! Have never experienced this so would be interested as to its effect?? Many thanks Michael

gregb 01-07-2013 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amanra (Post 7296373)
Crap!!

Sorry to hear about this, I've experienced all of these issues at separate times. I was lucky to have my aftermarket warranty cover these repairs for me, but there was a point where every 2 months I was experiencing something new, and that can be frustrating. In this case, you can get this entire list completed in 1 shot which is much better than what I had to go through.

+1 - sorry to hear about the long list of repairs.

vegas645 01-07-2013 05:48 PM

She's at the shop right now gettin' all fixed up for me so I can ride her another 100k!! Coolant leak is under the intake manifold. He said it needs a cap replaced. Oil leal is a valve cover and main gasket. I told them to change the belts and flush all the fluids. The front control arms were fine.

$2800

Can anyone suggest any other parts that I should replace while there at it for preventative measures??

Yorgi 01-07-2013 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 645/333 (Post 7296572)
Hi Yorgi! showing my ignorance hear! the gas cap, is that the same as the petrol tank cap?? And if so what goes wrong with them that causes a code to be raised! Have never experienced this so would be interested as to its effect?? Many thanks Michael

Yes, the petrol cap that you need to remove every time you fill up the car.

There is a rubber seal on this cap that dries out over time and compresses after hundreds of removals, resulting in a less-than-air-tight seal. All modern (OBDII) emission systems pressurize the fuel/petrol tank. Any loss in pressure triggers a check engine light - the assumption being if pressure is leaking from the tank so are fuel vapours into the environment.

Germans are notorious for using low silicon content plastics and rubbers because they are very environmentally conscious. They want the plastics used in cars to eventually break down once the car is retired. The problem is that the plastics start breaking down too soon, within 8 to 10 years, and you start getting all sorts of electrical connection issues and plastic hoses/tanks failing.

The Asians are not afraid to use high silicon plastics and this is one of the reasons they have greater reliability over the Germans.

Yorgi 01-07-2013 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vegas645 (Post 7297068)
She's at the shop right now gettin' all fixed up for me so I can ride her another 100k!! Coolant leak is under the intake manifold. He said it needs a cap replaced. Oil leal is a valve cover and main gasket. I told them to change the belts and flush all the fluids. The front control arms were fine.

$2800

Can anyone suggest any other parts that I should replace while there at it for preventative measures??

If you have the "dreaded coolant leak" which weeps out the hole in passenger side manifold cover, then that fix requires at least $2-$3K on it's own. There is also a common coolant leak at the coolant temp sensor that costs about $100 to fix. I would find out what exactly your shop is doing.

The "dreaded" leak requires pulling apart the entire manifold and installing a new pipe from All German Auto. You should at least change the manifold cover gaskets in this case. Check out this DIY thread to see what's involved (download the .pdf), it is a MAJOR job - the dealer pulls the engine and charges $9-$11K for this job.

645/333 01-08-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorgi (Post 7297268)
Yes, the petrol cap that you need to remove every time you fill up the car.

There is a rubber seal on this cap that dries out over time and compresses after hundreds of removals, resulting in a less-than-air-tight seal. All modern (OBDII) emission systems pressurize the fuel/petrol tank. Any loss in pressure triggers a check engine light - the assumption being if pressure is leaking from the tank so are fuel vapours into the environment.

Germans are notorious for using low silicon content plastics and rubbers because they are very environmentally conscious. They want the plastics used in cars to eventually break down once the car is retired. The problem is that the plastics start breaking down too soon, within 8 to 10 years, and you start getting all sorts of electrical connection issues and plastic hoses/tanks failing.

The Asians are not afraid to use high silicon plastics and this is one of the reasons they have greater reliability over the Germans.

Hi! Many thanks for the information, knowledge increased! If you did have a lower pressure in the tank due to the cap being faulty, how would that manifest in terms of driving the car? I appreciate a code is generated and the smell of fuel may also be an indicator, I have seen many cars with fuel stains running down from the fuel tank filler cap, indicating a less than tight seal, but would the cars ie 6 series run properly???? Would you get fuel starvation as it is not being pumped effectively?????

Yorgi 01-08-2013 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 645/333 (Post 7298618)
Hi! Many thanks for the information, knowledge increased! If you did have a lower pressure in the tank due to the cap being faulty, how would that manifest in terms of driving the car? I appreciate a code is generated and the smell of fuel may also be an indicator, I have seen many cars with fuel stains running down from the fuel tank filler cap, indicating a less than tight seal, but would the cars ie 6 series run properly???? Would you get fuel starvation as it is not being pumped effectively?????

Pressure is strictly for emissions. The fuel pump will work even if the cap is removed.

The cap would have to be pretty bad combined with some real hooligan driving to have fuel/petrol leak out of a closed cap. I think what you are seeing is people over-filling at the pump or pulling the nozzle out too quickly (get your mind out of the gutter :yikes:) after they stop pumping which causes a spill down the side of the car.

All-Or-Nothing 01-09-2013 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorgi (Post 7297298)
If you have the "dreaded coolant leak" which weeps out the hole in passenger side manifold cover, then that fix requires at least $2-$3K on it's own. There is also a common coolant leak at the coolant temp sensor that costs about $100 to fix. I would find out what exactly your shop is doing.

The "dreaded" leak requires pulling apart the entire manifold and installing a new pipe from All German Auto. You should at least change the manifold cover gaskets in this case. Check out this DIY thread to see what's involved (download the .pdf), it is a MAJOR job - the dealer pulls the engine and charges $9-$11K for this job.


Is an engine pull actually required???

greco2000 01-09-2013 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing (Post 7300331)
Is an engine pull actually required???

Go to the e65 forum and search "weep hole". They are plagued with this issue!

bimmerzone 01-09-2013 06:08 AM

No engine pull if using the AGA pipe
http://www.bimmerzone.com/BMW_Perfor...-PIPE-N62.html
you can check out pics and videos

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing (Post 7300331)
Is an engine pull actually required???


tampamark 01-09-2013 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bimmerzone (Post 7300528)
No engine pull if using the AGA pipe
http://www.bimmerzone.com/BMW_Perfor...-PIPE-N62.html
you can check out pics and videos

Even my dealer does the aftermarket pipe...reluctantly. It is frowned on by bmw but they say thay have to offer to keep from losing to the independents.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Bimmer App

Yorgi 01-09-2013 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing (Post 7300331)
Is an engine pull actually required???

If you don't install the aftermarket expanding All German Auto (AGA) pipe then you need to insert the OEM replacement pipe though the front of the engine. This requires lifting the engine out to slip the pipe in.

Dealer method is replacing a leaky $4 gasket with $9,000 of labour because BMW engineers did not select the best quality rubber for the o-ring on that pipe.

All-Or-Nothing 01-09-2013 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yorgi (Post 7302258)
If you don't install the aftermarket expanding All German Auto (AGA) pipe then you need to insert the OEM replacement pipe though the front of the engine. This requires lifting the engine out to slip the pipe in.

Dealer method is replacing a leaky $4 gasket with $9,000 of labour because BMW engineers did not select the best quality rubber for the o-ring on that pipe.



Seems like they could just remove the radiator vs lifting the engine out. I guess less labor charges if they did it that way...:dunno:

vegas645 01-11-2013 04:14 PM

I just got the 6 back from the shop today and here is what was done.

R+R intake and replaced valley plate (Cap) with seal. $1488
Replaced leaking valve cover and upper timing cover seals. $1304
Replaced micro filters.
Brake fluid flush.
Coolant system flush

The car runs much better!!

$3,208


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