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Itinj6 01-05-2013 09:20 PM

What's Next For You?
 
I drove my father in law's 911 Carrera 4S and I am officially hooked on Porsche. What a drive!!! Sport+ with the Porsche PDK transmission is insane. Car won't shift until it hits redline. I was screaming in 2nd gear at high speed and high RPM on the highway and it would not shift until I hit the beginning of the redline. I thought it was broken lol. This thing really sticks to the road. I felt like I was in a machine and not a car. Almost didnt want to get back in mine after lol. Driving a GT and SAV so long, I forgot what a true sports car feels like.

Definitely my next car, or some variation of it. I don't want AWD but would love turbo.

What's next for you?

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southern6er22 01-05-2013 09:46 PM

No idea, but here are the contenders, in no specific order:

Another 6er
M4
M5
F-Type
XKR
X6 50i v. X6 M

While a 911 (Carrera S) is tempting, I think I'd needs therapist to undergo the process of building one. Buying off the lot would be impossible for me, and deciding on options from their gazillion choices would likely cause me to take up a destructive habit unless given a limitless bank account. I already tried to build a 911 to my liking once, and I had to stop when I got to $125k and still felt like I was making too many compromises. Maybe one day, but I don't see it happening next time around.

dunderhi 01-05-2013 10:15 PM

Well, technically, the 650xi will be the next car for me. :rofl:

Itinj6 01-05-2013 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southern6er22 (Post 7293051)
No idea, but here are the contenders, in no specific order:

Another 6er
M4
M5
F-Type
XKR
X6 50i v. X6 M

While a 911 (Carrera S) is tempting, I think I'd needs therapist to undergo the process of building one. Buying off the lot would be impossible for me, and deciding on options from their gazillion choices would likely cause me to take up a destructive habit unless given a limitless bank account. I already tried to build a 911 to my liking once, and I had to stop when I got to $125k and still felt like I was making too many compromises. Maybe one day, but I don't see it happening next time around.

Yeah that Porsche BYO is insane but I can make it work :) just gotta figure out the "must haves" and then work from there.

Curious to see the M4 when it comes out. Gonna be tough to go to an X6 from a 650. I have zero desire to drive my wife's. Actually, I kinda get upset when we have to take the X6 as opposed to the 650 but hey, she wants an SUV. Just glad she will only get the big engine variant. That's me though. Maybe you will find the transition less dull :)

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southern6er22 01-05-2013 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itinj6 (Post 7293108)
That's me though. Maybe you will find the transition less dull :)

I'm sure I'd find it just as dull, comparatively anyway. It's on the list as my grown up option. I'd still probably do everything I could to go the M5 route instead if I had to have 4 seats. The CLS and Panamera are off my 4-door, 4-seat list until they get their a$$es in shape.

svp66 01-06-2013 06:00 AM

I did test drive bunch of Porsche's before the 650. They handle perfect, but the ride in 911 / Cayman / Boxter is too stiff. My friend who is in his early 40s had one on lease and let it go for the same reason. If you have even minor back problems, you know what I mean...

The Panamera is a spectacular ride (4S or Turbo), handles better than the 650, and the interior is more inspiring. Could not put up with the exterior though. I've seen the concept Grand Tourer and it is really much more appealing. It will be tough to decide between that and the i8...

greenie99 01-06-2013 07:01 AM

Firstly, deal just reached to "drop the puck"!:) These are different cars in so many ways. I had ordered a 2013 Carrera S in Platinum Silver. Two weeks from delivery, I was visiting my BMW dealer who coincidentally owns the Porsche dealer as well. Lucky for me!! A carbon black 650 had just come in and I spotted it. Cancelled the Porsche and the rest is history. Yes, the 911 handles unlike almost any car out there but to me, the visuals are as important. I am more impressed with the 650s interior and when I look at the cars side by side, the 911 now looks a bit dated. For me, I made the correct decision and I couldnt be happier.

southern6er22 01-06-2013 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenie99 (Post 7293388)
Yes, the 911 handles unlike almost any car out there but to me, the visuals are as important. I am more impressed with the 650s interior and when I look at the cars side by side, the 911 now looks a bit dated. For me, I made the correct decision and I couldnt be happier.

+1. I know my car will never make it to a track, so real world driving was a higher priority. However, it seemed like there were a lot if performance options that would make a difference in a daily driver (as opposed to a track pack type package), so I didn't think I could pass on those without feeling like I was getting a stripped out 911 in terms of performance/handling.

I've seen some very nice 911 interiors, but, to build this, it required >$10k in a la carte interior options (trim here, leather there, contrast stitching on this, exterior color on that, blah, blah, blah). By the time you get your desired interior and the performance options, the option list makes the ~$20k options on the 6er look downright cheap. It was hard enough paying $650 for ceramic controls.

Building a 911 and not caring about how the interior looks is the way to go. I just know I'm incapable of this.

jettie1767 01-06-2013 08:34 AM

Either a 911 Turbo, Bentley Continental GT or Aston Martin DB9

Itinj6 01-06-2013 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svp66 (Post 7293324)
I did test drive bunch of Porsche's before the 650. They handle perfect, but the ride in 911 / Cayman / Boxter is too stiff. My friend who is in his early 40s had one on lease and let it go for the same reason. If you have even minor back problems, you know what I mean...

The Panamera is a spectacular ride (4S or Turbo), handles better than the 650, and the interior is more inspiring. Could not put up with the exterior though. I've seen the concept Grand Tourer and it is really much more appealing. It will be tough to decide between that and the i8...

I know what you mean about the back. I had to recline the seat a bit more and it was fine after that... and I don't even have back problems. But it was definitely tensing up with the seat more upright.

Agree on the Panamera. Some like the look, but for me, I just can't stomach it.






Quote:

Originally Posted by greenie99 (Post 7293388)
Firstly, deal just reached to "drop the puck"!:) These are different cars in so many ways. I had ordered a 2013 Carrera S in Platinum Silver. Two weeks from delivery, I was visiting my BMW dealer who coincidentally owns the Porsche dealer as well. Lucky for me!! A carbon black 650 had just come in and I spotted it. Cancelled the Porsche and the rest is history. Yes, the 911 handles unlike almost any car out there but to me, the visuals are as important. I am more impressed with the 650s interior and when I look at the cars side by side, the 911 now looks a bit dated. For me, I made the correct decision and I couldnt be happier.

I know!!! My plans of sleeping in were shattered when my wife woke me up to tell me about the end of the lockout. Awesome, but the news could've waited lol. Not like there's a game today.

Yes the 911 does look dated, especially the interior but I see it as pure driving sex. Visuals get old. The drive never does though IMO. The interior of the Porsche is reminiscent of an aircraft cockpit to me. Very boxy and very little rounded edges. Looks like a Cessna lol









Quote:

Originally Posted by southern6er22 (Post 7293415)
+1. I know my car will never make it to a track, so real world driving was a higher priority. However, it seemed like there were a lot if performance options that would make a difference in a daily driver (as opposed to a track pack type package), so I didn't think I could pass on those without feeling like I was getting a stripped out 911 in terms of performance/handling.

I've seen some very nice 911 interiors, but, to build this, it required >$10k in a la carte interior options (trim here, leather there, contrast stitching on this, exterior color on that, blah, blah, blah). By the time you get your desired interior and the performance options, the option list makes the ~$20k options on the 6er look downright cheap. It was hard enough paying $650 for ceramic controls.

Building a 911 and not caring about how the interior looks is the way to go. I just know I'm incapable of this.

Regardless of all those performance options, its still a Porsche. They didn't build their reputation on a modern active suspension or PDK or anything like that. If I have to skip on a couple, then so be it. ... but I probably will be checking all those boxes ;)

Like you said, interior comes second in the Porsche. Interior visuals get old to me anyway. I don't need leather this, leather that, contrast stitching, painted air vents, yadda yadda yadda lol. Its all about the drive. I will never track it either but it's good for those close encounters. Living in the NY Metro Area, close encounters are not uncommon.

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greenie99 01-06-2013 10:09 AM

Forgot to mention that I would have missed the V8 growl especially with my new cat backs:) Plus, I love the way the shifter looks and feels vs. the 911s oversized stick.

Hofstet 01-06-2013 12:04 PM

Leaning towards a '14 M6. Maybe BMW will offer an Xi option, although I doubt it. Is the engine in the X6 M the same as in the M6?

southern6er22 01-06-2013 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hofstet (Post 7294040)
Is the engine in the X6 M the same as in the M6?

Don't ask me to explain it - leave that to Bönz ;) - but I'm pretty sure they're different. I think that's the old V8 they modified to get 555 hp whereas the M5/M6 use an enhanced version of the one in the 5, 6, and 7 boosting from 445 hp (previously 407 hp #notbitter :( ) to 560 hp.

Itinj6 01-06-2013 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hofstet (Post 7294040)
Leaning towards a '14 M6. Maybe BMW will offer an Xi option, although I doubt it. Is the engine in the X6 M the same as in the M6?

Same engine.

Matter of fact, the X6M (and X5M) received that S63 engine first and was later adapted by the M6 (and M5) as a TU version with valvetronic.

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southern6er22 01-06-2013 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itinj6 (Post 7294254)
Same engine.

Matter of fact, the X6M (and X5M) received that S63 engine first and was later adapted by the M6 (and M5) as a TU version.

This is what I get for thinking I know something about what goes on under the hood - or anywhere else that isn't lined in leather, covered in ceramic, or can have an Apple device plugged into it. Pardon my ignorance...

:banghead: :behead: :flush:

EmM HoLLa 01-06-2013 04:05 PM

I'm leaning toward the M6 Gran Coupe.. I love the Sixer..

hammadurb 01-06-2013 04:31 PM

My next car after the F02 was supposed to be the F10 M5. I traded the 7er early and opted to go with the 6er because M5 allocation was hard to come by. Overall, I am very happy with the 6er but I don't think a coupe is right for me. I had the past three models of the 7 and I think sedan suits me better. With that said, I definitely want something more powerful and I've want an M for as long as I can remember but something always came up. Hopefully it will be an F10 M5 for me!

Bönz 01-07-2013 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itinj6 (Post 7294254)
Same engine.

Matter of fact, the X6M (and X5M) received that S63 engine first and was later adapted by the M6 (and M5) as a TU version with valvetronic.

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+1 My NJ friend is correct. The TU upgrade also included increased boost and a higher compression ratio if memory serves.

I suspect the same is true for the N63Tu versus the N63. It's the boost and CR that results in the HP increase, not the vlavetronic.

Bönz 01-07-2013 09:04 AM

Back to the OP: I really have no idea what my next car will be. If you asked me this 10 months into my M3 lease, I never would have guessed the F13 - it didn't exist. So 2 years from now things could change. Then again, I always seem to end up back in a BMW. I'm really a coupe kind of guy (the 2 door kind), so my options tend to be limited. Since Japan and the US don't make anything in this class, I can say with 90% certainy that whatever I get will be European (and most likely German). And please don't gag me with the CTS. I don't care how fast it is, it's just fugly. (My opinion, no flame please).

Itinj6 01-07-2013 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bönz (Post 7296026)

I suspect the same is true for the N63Tu versus the N63. It's the boost and CR that results in the HP increase, not the vlavetronic.

Interesting!!! So if the only hardware change to the N63TU is the addition of valvetronic, but that does not affect increase in HP, then technically, our N63s should be able to get the same gains as the N63TUs... through software.

I think it's time to rewrite those letters lol.

Does the valvetronic indirectly affect HP somehow? Boost can be increased through software but CR? Not sure. There's gotta be more to it than just the addition of valvetronic then. I think I'm confusing myself lol.

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dunderhi 01-07-2013 11:18 AM

I believe when adding valvetronic, BMW has an option to 1) tune for more power with the same efficiency or 2) tune for more efficiency with the same power. The S63Tü went with option 2 and the N63Tü went with option 1. Now there's a small detail that I haven't seen seen mentioned, in 2013 the 650 went from a 3.08 final drive ratio to a 2.81, which hurts acceleration in the name of efficiency. So in 2013, BMW went with more power and efficiency on the 650, but what I don't know is the net effect on acceleration. I know BMW claims it's faster, but I sure would love to see an independent test.

Bönz 01-07-2013 12:46 PM

I've stated this in another thread. Valvetronic is only a throttling system. It is more effective on a normally aspirated engine as it reduces intake vacuum and theoretically improves the fuel mixture by inducing additional swirl. By itself, valvetronic does not and cannot increase power (assuming equal maximum valve lift). All the power increase on both the S63 and N63 Tu's comes from increased boost, CR and other related software changes. Valvetronic may play a role in maintaining efficiency/emissions with the increased power of the Tu engines, but it doesn't add power.

CR is mechanical. It is the volumetric ratio of the combustion chamber with the piston at TDC (top dead center) to the bottom of its stroke. The larger the ratio (more compression) the more power, efficiency and potential for pre-ignition (bad). Forced induction engines raise cylinder pressure by compressing the intake charge, effectively increasing the compression ratio. That's why boosted engines typically have a lower mechanical CR. That's also why we need to use premium fuel. It has higher resistance to pre-ignition. Intercooling also reduces potential for detonation.

Then there's ignition timing, valve overlap, valve timing and fuel injection timing. All these parameters are computer controlled and have a direct impact on power, efficiency and emissions. Bottom line: The N63 is capable of just as much power as the N63 Tu. Maintaining emissions and reliability while doing so with aftermarket SW and mods is the sticky point.

BTW. I have read (not experienced) that valvetronic actually has worse throttle response than a regular butterfly system. :dunno:

Good catch on the final drive Dunderhi. I hadn't noticed. In theory this would hurt acceleration off the line even with the slight additional engine torque. But given the 8 speed tranny and all that power (either engine), it really comes down to a good launch - especially with RWD. The higher drive ratio should result in better mpg, assuming you're not Southy running around in Sport mode all the time. It is odd that BMW giveth with one hand and taketh away with the other.

So Southy, you can relax. WIth the simpler more responsive standard throttle, lower rear end ratio and some after market boost - our 2012's should kick 2013's butt. :rofl:

southern6er22 01-07-2013 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bönz (Post 7296524)
So Southy, you can relax. WIth the simpler more responsive standard throttle, lower rear end ratio and some after market boost - our 2012's should kick 2013's butt. :rofl:

Haha. All of that sleep lost for nothing...

Hofstet 01-07-2013 04:26 PM

Do you think BMW will ever offer the M6 with AWD?

dunderhi 01-07-2013 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hofstet (Post 7296915)
Do you think BMW will ever offer the M6 with AWD?

If they want to compete with their German brethren in the upcoming years, they will. :rofl:


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