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-   -   Heater won't work - I think (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669627)

Nitrogen 01-12-2013 11:26 AM

Heater won't work - I think
 
When I set my controls to heat either by idrive or by defrost all I get is cold air at first it's a little warm then just blows cold. When I put it to manual mode the center front fresh air duct on passenger side has warm to hot air sometimes. It's weird I put my hands on the outlet of the secondary pump and it has pressure and is hot.
Same with the heater core metering valve. Anyone have ideas it's freezing outside!!!! Burrrrrr!

645/333 01-12-2013 03:02 PM

Given that these cars do not have water temperature gauges only oil temp gauge then it is difficult to discern if it is the water thermostat at fault, as if the car cannot get up to temp then the heater will not work anyway, perhaps this may be the issue, or if memory serves there is a stat on the heater matrix????

Nitrogen 01-12-2013 05:41 PM

I feel the hoses and they are on both ends which means there is good heat.
Also I think the water for the heater comes from a different leg on the radiator and goes to another water pump ( not the main) then to a valve control unit then to the core. The hoses are all burning hot before and after so I know the water is good.

Yorgi 01-12-2013 09:54 PM

Have you checked the iDrive climate settings? There is a setting that can turn the heat almost completely off.

Check out this post for instructions.

Nitrogen 01-13-2013 12:56 AM

Hi yorgi I think you are talking about the blue and red torso settings if so I tried that makes no difference what it's set to it still blows cold or sometimes warm on right center and cold on driver side. When you push defrost it should go automatically to heat and it doesn't . I'm so confused about where to start.

Medicus 01-13-2013 02:01 AM

I am not sure if this vehicle is the same as one I had before. I had an issue exactly the same as this with a previous vehicle. It turned out to be the Blend door motor which turns the valve for the vents from hot to cold. Since you are getting very minimal heat in certain areas I believe the valve is stuck shut.

645/333 01-13-2013 06:56 AM

Hi! you are correct there is an aux water pump for the heater, had a quick look at the TIS . I reckon following your checking the main hoses for heat you need to check this aux pump is passing water through ie inlet outlet at least then you know heat is getting to the heater matrix/core. I think looking at the TIS will give you some good ideas to fault find???

Nitrogen 01-15-2013 10:55 PM

Ok so today I really checked things out and I couldn't find anything. But then I moved the car and found a puddle underneath the transmission pan. It was coolant, I couldn't find a leak anywhere. I don't know if there is a drain incase the heater core/matrix starts leaking? I tried to see the core inlet hoses- for leaks- but I can only see one the other is really buried looks ok. The only thing I can think is the core is leaking and dripping on the ground, but even if the core is leaking wouldn't I still get some heat. The leak is not that bad. If it is the core has anyone change one out is it very hard I know the dash may need to come out but I'm not sure.

rebel.ranter 01-16-2013 01:06 AM

Are you sure that "leak" is not just water condensing on the air conditioning unit? These normally drip around the transmission area.
The heater core matrix is inside the cabin so normally if this leaks it is inside the car.
Have you checked the coolant level? With the car cold you can open the expansion tank cap and you'll see the "float" that indicates the coolant level. If it was low coolant though you would get a message in iDrive if it was significantly low.
There is a way to bring up the water coolant temperature in the instrument cluster, perhaps it's worth checking that too.
Here's a video of how to bring up the coolant temperature:

http://youtu.be/IB4vtoiFy7c

Nitrogen 01-16-2013 07:31 AM

Hi Rebel the level of coolant needs topping off maybe every 2 weeks. It could be condensate water but I didn't run the AC, I will try again. Now that you mention it I don't remember seeing any color to the liquid. I know that if the core leaks its usually in the car on other cars but I was thinking this car might have a drain to the outside some how. I'm gonna try using a scope camera and scope it through the fresh air filter to see what I can see.

HerbP 01-16-2013 06:35 PM

It sounds like you have multiple problems? If you are losing coolant every 2 weeks, you have a leak. Check all of your hoses, & the bleed line for leaks. I would also closely inspect the expansion tank for cracks. One last item would be to inspect the weep hole on the front center part of the engine. If this is leaking, the coolant pipe is bad.

Find the heater core return hose, & disconnect it. Then check to see if the heater core return hose has water flow. If not starting looking at the heater control valve. The valve has flow for the driver & passenger heat. It would be hard to believe both sides of that valve have gone bad, but possible.

It really sounds like you have a blend door problem, that allows the heat into the main ventilation system. Google BMW blend door problems for more on that problem.

Good Luck!

reytran 01-18-2013 03:32 AM

My car never be able to use the heater, probably only produce a little warm wind. I paid couple of visit to the dealer, still the same. California weather somehow make me just go with it and I almost forget about this issue. I'll go check the iDrive tmr morning to see what I can do with it.

Nitrogen 01-21-2013 11:39 PM

Herb I think you are right! I looked and found coolant residue on the bottom of one of the coolant lines. So I think I found the leak. But as for the heating I found that when I first turn on defrost and put my hand to the windshield really fast I can feel great heat then it goes to freezing cold. So looks like my heater is working but the doors are not landing on the heat side but pass over it to another duct. Is there a way to push like 2 buttons or something and reset the climate control settings to default?

HerbP 01-22-2013 05:23 PM

I would run it by the dealer & ask for some assistance in checking the settings. Hopefully you will get someone to at least look at it for free, if not look for a forum member near you.

Good Luck!

Nitrogen 01-30-2013 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbP (Post 7330870)
I would run it by the dealer & ask for some assistance in checking the settings. Hopefully you will get someone to at least look at it for free, if not look for a forum member near you.

Good Luck!

Herbp you said free .... I wish! My dealer charges a toll fee if I just drive by their lot..LOL
I took out my laser temp gun today and took temps of every hose. Seems as if they are all getting correct flow as all of them ranged from 120-180 degrees. I even opened up the filters to the cabin and checked inside (don't know if it was the core/matrix or the condenser) but it was 90 degrees so I think that is fine. As the car sits still the heater seems to work but when I drive the air gets cold like air somehow is getting into the cabin filters and in to the car. I checked the blend doors from the cabin filters I can see them opening and closing.
Now what ?????????

645/333 01-31-2013 02:34 AM

Have you checked the operation of the secondary pump?? this is the pump that pushes the water through the heater matrix, the heat you maybe measuring is radiant heat, it does not mean it is being pumped around the whole system, without this pump working as soon as the distribution fans switch it will cool the water quite quickly, hence the circulating pump!!! Just a thought as you seem to be exhausting most avenues in your search!!!!

Nitrogen 01-31-2013 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 645/333 (Post 7350152)
Have you checked the operation of the secondary pump?? this is the pump that pushes the water through the heater matrix, the heat you maybe measuring is radiant heat, it does not mean it is being pumped around the whole system, without this pump working as soon as the distribution fans switch it will cool the water quite quickly, hence the circulating pump!!! Just a thought as you seem to be exhausting most avenues in your search!!!!


I really don't know how to check the pump. I have felt pressure on both the in and out hoses and there is pressure. I have used my laser gun to see the temps and it reads around 120 degrees going out.One thing that is really weird is that the fresh air ducts in the center console have different temps coming out. The drivers is cold and the passenger side is giving warm to slightly hot air. So I am now thinking that as someone else mentioned (sorry can't remember who to give credit to) it must be some blend door. But which one and how do I get to it ??????? The TIS on this stuff is so awful. I wish I had a good old repair manual, like the good old days.

Medicus 01-31-2013 09:24 PM

You might need to do a little more research but this is what I was able to come up with just by glancing through a couple sights. I am sure my information is wrong about your year so double check that. I am sure that most of the 650s are the same in this area. I believe that the part that you are looking for is #22.

http://www.bmwpartsunlimited.com/par...gramCallOut=22

Nitrogen 01-31-2013 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medicus (Post 7352127)
You might need to do a little more research but this is what I was able to come up with just by glancing through a couple sights. I am sure my information is wrong about your year so double check that. I am sure that most of the 650s are the same in this area. I believe that the part that you are looking for is #22.

http://www.bmwpartsunlimited.com/par...gramCallOut=22

Thanks for the diagram Medicus I don't know if that actuator will be the one that would stop hot air from coming up when I hit defrost as well. Maybe it's the heater core temp sensor?

HerbP 02-01-2013 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitrogen (Post 7352100)
I really don't know how to check the pump. I have felt pressure on both the in and out hoses and there is pressure. I have used my laser gun to see the temps and it reads around 120 degrees going out.One thing that is really weird is that the fresh air ducts in the center console have different temps coming out. The drivers is cold and the passenger side is giving warm to slightly hot air. So I am now thinking that as someone else mentioned (sorry can't remember who to give credit to) it must be some blend door. But which one and how do I get to it ??????? The TIS on this stuff is so awful. I wish I had a good old repair manual, like the good old days.

If the temp controls are set to the same settings, your problem is with the heater control valve. ( Water Valve part 6 below ) They fail quite often, & are kind of hard to figure out. The one on my 7 series is having similar problems when it is hot outside. I 1st thought it was a Freon problem, until I felt the temp at different sides of the dash. They are not cheap, but neither are any BMW parts.

Hope this helps

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...=64&fg=18&hl=7

Nitrogen 02-02-2013 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbP (Post 7354164)
If the temp controls are set to the same settings, your problem is with the heater control valve. ( Water Valve part 6 below ) They fail quite often, & are kind of hard to figure out. The one on my 7 series is having similar problems when it is hot outside. I 1st thought it was a Freon problem, until I felt the temp at different sides of the dash. They are not cheap, but neither are any BMW parts.

Hope this helps

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...=64&fg=18&hl=7


I will try to take it apart and maybe bench test it. It only has 2 positive and 1 neg. terminal so
I think I can energize them one at a time to see if they function. Also check for debris or build up. I'll report my findings.

Nitrogen 02-03-2013 10:57 AM

5 Attachment(s)
So I took the valve apart yesterday I left the unit attached and just removed the electronics.

Basically these are solenoid valves which use a coil when energized to suck the metal valve up or force it closed depending on the polarity.
Look at the last pic the one on the right or bottom since its not rotated. Observe the burn in the back center and how it is bubbled just slightly. The other one you can see the copper wires and it looks normal. This looks like a problem to me I'm gonna order a new one and see what happens.

HerbP 02-03-2013 02:19 PM

Looks like you found the culprit. Let me know where you find the best price. I am going to have to buy one, before summer!

Nitrogen 02-03-2013 03:00 PM

Hey Herb I just ordered a used one from eBay guaranteed to work or I get my money back. It came off a wrecked BMW that had only 50k miles on it.
I'll take a chance for 55.00 plus free shipping.

HerbP 02-03-2013 05:24 PM

That is not a bad price. Who did you buy it from?

Thanks


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