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-   -   Question: Would you buy a "buyback?" (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670299)

denniscasey 01-15-2013 04:03 PM

Question: Would you buy a "buyback?"
 
Exploring buying a 2011 or 2012 rather than new 2013 (hate that first year depreciation). Came across a BMW Dealer (verified he is actual dealer) who had very low mile 2011's. I called about them and sales person said original owner of one of them (a 550 xi) had mechanical problems so BMW replaced the car. He called it a "buyback."

Another was a car from out of the dealer area and salesperson said it was a "car we bought from BMW" but did not explain.

First one sounds like might have been a "lemon" buyback and I wonder how BMW treats warranty for such cars.

The second one I don't understand what it means when a dealer says they "bought a used car from BMW"--demo, loaner, another lemon?

One car was built in March of 2011 so possibly beyond "early build" issues that might have occurred with the new 2011 model year 550's--the other was built December, 2010.

markl53 01-15-2013 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denniscasey (Post 7315893)
Exploring buying a 2011 or 2012 rather than new 2013 (hate that first year depreciation). Came across a BMW Dealer (verified he is actual dealer) who had very low mile 2011's. I called about them and sales person said original owner of one of them (a 550 xi) had mechanical problems so BMW replaced the car. He called it a "buyback."

Another was a car from out of the dealer area and salesperson said it was a "car we bought from BMW" but did not explain.

First one sounds like might have been a "lemon" buyback and I wonder how BMW treats warranty for such cars.

The second one I don't understand what it means when a dealer says they "bought a used car from BMW"--demo, loaner, another lemon?

One car was built in March of 2011 so possibly beyond "early build" issues that might have occurred with the new 2011 model year 550's--the other was built December, 2010.

NO. The only thing worse, IMO, is buying from a rental fleet. Others will no doubt have other opinions.

Needsdecaf 01-15-2013 05:38 PM

No, no and once again....no.

Judging from my own experience, these cars are not often fully cured. They are cured to BMWNA's satisfaction, which means if they "all behave like that" then BMWNA deems them "fixed".

Oh yeah...no.

Kar Don 01-15-2013 05:50 PM

"Car we bought from BMW" could be an ex BMWNA employee lease car, may not be a lemon buy back. Granted, I had an ex employee lease car and it had tons of problems (back in 2004).

Emilner 01-15-2013 08:10 PM

550ix? That could be my car!! In a word (or 2)- NO WAY

The X Men 01-16-2013 06:22 AM

Buying a 2011 F10 that is a BMW buy back pretty much gaurantee that you will have some early build issues if not more than that.

depingre 01-16-2013 08:11 AM

NO, NO and an emphatically NO!!! I purchased a "buyback" 2011 550 in Oct with only 16k miles. It was an early build of Aug '10. The buyback reason they stated was an insignificant repair, however, I now think they're covering up other issues as the car will make its 4th trip to the service department next week. It has left my wife stranded, yes stranded, 3 times. Sure, BMW will honor the 4/50k warranty but you will live a nightmare of trip after trip to the service department along with never trusting that the car will actually start or perform as it should. The dealer, BMW local tech rep, BMW customer service and BMW legal department have completely blown us off. No one will admit an wrongdoing or admit any fault. I was informed last Tuesday by BMW's legal department after weeks of being strung along that they're unwilling to do anything for us. I have hired an attorney and will shove this car so far back up their rear ends that they will never see the light of day. This was my 6th BMW and certainly my last! They DO NOT know customer service. Mercedes, here I come.

Alpine300ZHP 01-16-2013 08:45 AM

OP...PLEASE listen to what these guys are telling you. A buyback or whatever they want to call it is a bucket of trouble. Run not walk from this car. The early F10's were a nightmare and offer further proof why one should not buy a first year production BMW. Mine is a 2011, but it was a late 2011 build and they had been making F10's for almost a year before mine was built. This car went through many revisions in year 2010 and 2011. Even then I took a long test drive before I signed for it and I am fortunate to have a great 2011 F10. Many others have not been so lucky. If you must buy pre-owned get a 2012. I would recommend looking for a new 2013 even if you have to give up some options to hit the budget because even more improvements were made to the 2013 model especially the addition of M sport with m sport suspension.

Alpine300ZHP 01-16-2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by depingre (Post 7317453)
NO, NO and an emphatically NO!!! I purchased a "buyback" 2011 550 in Oct with only 16k miles. It was an early build of Aug '10. The buyback reason they stated was an insignificant repair, however, I now think they're covering up other issues as the car will make its 4th trip to the service department next week. It has left my wife stranded, yes stranded, 3 times. Sure, BMW will honor the 4/50k warranty but you will live a nightmare of trip after trip to the service department along with never trusting that the car will actually start or perform as it should. The dealer, BMW local tech rep, BMW customer service and BMW legal department have completely blown us off. No one will admit an wrongdoing or admit any fault. I was informed last Tuesday by BMW's legal department after weeks of being strung along that they're unwilling to do anything for us. I have hired an attorney and will shove this car so far back up their rear ends that they will never see the light of day. This was my 6th BMW and certainly my last! They DO NOT know customer service. Mercedes, here I come.

Sorry to hear of your experience. Beware, I have heard similar stories from MBZ owners as well. Hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

Alpine300ZHP 01-16-2013 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl53 (Post 7316115)
NO. The only thing worse, IMO, is buying from a rental fleet. Others will no doubt have other opinions.

Hmm, Id buy a rental fleet car before I purchased a buyback. Just saying.....

miamiboyca 01-16-2013 10:16 AM

Rental car just means it "may" have been abused. Again - MAY and thus MAY have issues.

A buyback HAS had issues. Again, not in question its a 100% gauratee it had some issue that could not be fixed and BMW bout it back.

So... absolutely not.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP (Post 7317567)
Hmm, Id buy a rental fleet car before I purchased a buyback. Just saying.....


kckc1016 01-16-2013 10:24 AM

Not a chance!

solstice 01-16-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kckc1016 (Post 7317856)
Not a chance!

My F10 was bought back. I got an idea of how BMW worked on fixing the issue after the buy back. The GM at my dealer "had to" drive the car for months while BMW was trouble shooting and working on fixes and finally to get enough drive time to verify that the fix was persistent. I'm not sure if this is the norm but rather impressive nevertheless. However I put very high value on buying new since I want to know the full history of the car, heck I even get suspicious that something has been done to my car that i don't know of if I let someone else drive it once. So, buying a newer car that I know has been in trouble? Never.

wildvlad 01-16-2013 11:00 AM

Friend of mine had almost lemoned his car during first year (serious drivetrain problems with engine and gearbox), but after car had been finally fixed he drove it for another 10 years without any breakage.

Just saying...

snj1013 01-16-2013 11:12 AM

For me in would depend on why the car was bought back. For example, I considered buying a California Lemon Law BMW in the past. I called a local dealer with the VIN and had them tell me about its repair history. For this car, it was bought back for an intermittent problem where the car would not turn over. The battery, ignition switch, starter, etc. were replaced without resolving the problem. Finally a loose ground wire was discoved which fixed the issue for good. By that time, the owner had enough with the car and was able to Lemon Law it to get rid of it. I didn't have any issue with the car at that point other than the fact the it was considered a Lemon and this would be in the car's Carfax history at the time I would sell it in the future. In the end, I didn't buy the car based upon selling price, not on its anticipated reliability or future value. All items must be considered however.

If you can't get a history on the vehicle as others have said, be very careful.

ChrisF01 01-16-2013 04:46 PM

I had a 2005 (first model year) Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, the engine would randomly turn off while the electronics would stay on. I will never but a first model year car after that. It was a nightmare trying to get that thing lemoned from DaimlerChrysler.

I would not, even for 50% off sticker risk buying a lemon buy back.

Your safety is not worth a fat discount.

denniscasey 01-16-2013 07:17 PM

Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge; good logical device. I have learned to watch for certain suspicious indicators and one of them is too low miles (like 5000 miles on a 2012) which I am thinking means car was a demo or loaner or had a lot of problems. To one of the points made, those categories of cars might all have questionable use history.

At the moment I am getting over emotional reaction to one dealer saying he would just send my pristine 2006 550i to auction so did not really care what great shape it is in and new tires, battery, etc so only offered $14,000 on a trade in for new 2013 550 ix.

schnell525 01-16-2013 10:28 PM

Let me think:

Hell No!

And it wasn't BMW. You never know what you're getting for a couple thousand bucks off.

jmfan 01-16-2013 11:39 PM

I would not recommend purchasing a lemon “buyback” vehicle no matter how good the price is or how good it looks. You can read old threads related to the buyback of my 2011 328i convertible if you are interested. In my case, the car could not be fixed.

BMW agreed to buy it back after burning a lot of time, money and loaner cars to try to fix it. When I signed the car over to BMW and received a check, I was presented with paperwork that said the vehicle could not be sold in California where I reside (OP, your state may have different requirements). It would go to auction and no BMW dealer could purchase it for resale. The car was in pristine showroom condition with 8,700 miles on it.

About 2 months later, I decided to run the VIN # on Google and the car showed up listed on eBay. I did some research and found it was owned by an independent dealer in Dallas, Texas. The listing did not indicate that it was a buyback. The car was priced about $10k less than what I paid and it sold within a week after I spotted it.

I do know the new owner got a beautiful, great car that I hated to part with. I doubt they have any clue as to all the trouble I went through and highly doubt the problem was ever fixed after I turned it in.

I do not know for sure but I would imagine that BMW has this car flagged in their system, which could allow them to reject future repair attempts since it was sold as a lemon vehicle.

Buying a used car does not always mean you are buying someone else’s problems. When purchasing a lemon or “buyback” car you are definitely buying a vehicle that had problems and most likely still has them.

TGray5 01-17-2013 12:10 AM

A car bought from BMW is likely a loaner car or as sometimes called, BMW executive car :rofl:

Unless you are a masochist, I would avoid a ' buy back' car.

omaralt 01-17-2013 06:04 AM

i wouldnt necessarily not a buy one. you really have to look into why it was bought back. in the E60 forum there are many people who bought lemoned cars and couldnt be happier. they were lemoned because of the HPFP and were fixed with the new fuel pump. so in reality their cars are perfectly fine. you dont want to buy one with a bunch of phantom issues (ie, wont start, stops sporadically, etc); things that cant be easily duplicated and fixed. you can save thousands and have many years of trouble free motoring; yes i said many years, because you have to keep in mind that your re-sell value will take a significant hit so you need to plan on keeping it for a while to make any sense financially (ie whats the point of saving thousands initially only to lose thousands at re-sell?)

jmfan 01-17-2013 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by omaralt (Post 7319731)
i wouldnt necessarily not a buy one. you really have to look into why it was bought back.

I agree but you would probably be taking a huge risk.

In my buyback case, unless the new owner talks directly to me about the problem I experienced, he or she would have no way of knowing exactly what happened by reading the service records.

The problem was documented by the dealer on each visit but the detail does not clearly indicate why the car could not or cannot be fixed. Information was disclosed to me that was not listed on the paper work. The dealer write-up was fairly vague and one would have to assume that the car can’t be fixed because it was classified as a lemon.

Luckily BMW took care of my problem without much fight by putting me into a new car. In the future, I would demand that the service paper work reflect a better description to protect me in case the fight for a buyback wasn’t so easy and legal action was necessary.

I imagine the fact that the car moved to another state with different lemon laws probably muddies up the ability to get a clear picture of the car’s history, especially if that state does not require full disclosure.

Alpine300ZHP 01-17-2013 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denniscasey (Post 7319079)
Thank you for sharing your experiences and knowledge; good logical device. I have learned to watch for certain suspicious indicators and one of them is too low miles (like 5000 miles on a 2012) which I am thinking means car was a demo or loaner or had a lot of problems. To one of the points made, those categories of cars might all have questionable use history.

At the moment I am getting over emotional reaction to one dealer saying he would just send my pristine 2006 550i to auction so did not really care what great shape it is in and new tires, battery, etc so only offered $14,000 on a trade in for new 2013 550 ix.

I still say do not do it. As for your trade, let me say this. It might be pristine, it might be in mint condition, but you have to accept that it is a 7 year old car and it has zero lot appeal for a new BMW dealer that sells certified pre owned cars. They can't CPO it and they can't get bank financing for it (through traditional lenders) because it is too old. This is why it will go to auction. It will be purchased by one of those buy here/pay here outlets that will sell it and finance it with their own money to people with bad credit or sell it to someone who walks in with cash and wants a clean older BMW. I have purchased, traded and sold many BMW's (see my sig). With these cars you have to trade out of them before they turn 5 years old and/or 100k miles. Before 4 years old and 75k-80k miles is better. Once you pass that 5 year mark or 80k mile mark the value just drops like a rock because the car's resale is just not there. Keep this in mind next time you anticipate trading your car. I have a rule....dump it before 4 years or before 80k whichever comes first or drive it until the wheels fall off. I have done well following this rule.

denniscasey 01-17-2013 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP (Post 7320006)
I still say do not do it. As for your trade, let me say this. It might be pristine, it might be in mint condition, but you have to accept that it is a 7 year old car and it has zero lot appeal for a new BMW dealer that sells certified pre owned cars. They can't CPO it and they can't get bank financing for it (through traditional lenders) because it is too old. This is why it will go to auction. It will be purchased by one of those buy here/pay here outlets that will sell it and finance it with their own money to people with bad credit or sell it to someone who walks in with cash and wants a clean older BMW. I have purchased, traded and sold many BMW's (see my sig). With these cars you have to trade out of them before they turn 5 years old and/or 100k miles. Before 4 years old and 75k-80k miles is better. Once you pass that 5 year mark or 80k mile mark the value just drops like a rock because the car's resale is just not there. Keep this in mind next time you anticipate trading your car. I have a rule....dump it before 4 years or before 80k whichever comes first or drive it until the wheels fall off. I have done well following this rule.

I live and learn, thank you. One year ago I was offered $18,000 trade on a $38,000 2008 CPO 550i. So at least the car has given me another trouble free enjoyment year for $4000 (if I get $14,000 trade on a 2013). Maybe my best economic logic bet is to trade on a CPO to get back within your 4 year "rule" rather than trade on a 2013?

1985mb 01-17-2013 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGray5 (Post 7319495)
A car bought from BMW is likely a loaner car or as sometimes called, BMW executive car :rofl:

Unless you are a masochist, I would avoid a ' buy back' car.

I do not think this is true...loaners/demos/exec cars are different from *****backs


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