Bimmerfest - BMW Forums

Bimmerfest - BMW Forums (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/index.php)
-   E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013) (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=99)
-   -   Runflat rock hard tyre (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=670986)

Malikbari 01-19-2013 08:00 AM

Runflat rock hard tyre
 
Hi everyone
Need to share an BMW experience of runflat tyre ,bought a new BMW in 2006 m sport pack 318i saloon payed over 25000 when new it's been nearly 7 years now but never enjoyed a comfortable drive all this time worst was that I need to park the car for a year coz my wife was pregnant and could not afford to take a bumpy ride it was so terrible Try ringing BMW dealer can't change off market wheels it's not recommended from the manufacture and its your own responsibility if an accident happens ,very confusing dilama paid lot of money and now no resale value ,after all this terrible very terriable experience can anyone please suggest me some sort of solution for this problem ,I am not a complain machine but its a real exp and still in love with BMW

David Williamso 01-19-2013 08:19 AM

get rid of the run flats. No reason you can't put normal tires on the wheels you have now. Best mod you can do for the car. The dealer is just trying to sucker people into buying high price tries from them.
David

CALWATERBOY 01-19-2013 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malikbari (Post 7323888)
Need to share an BMW experience of runflat tyre ,bought a new BMW in 2006 m sport pack 318i saloon payed over 25000 when new it's been nearly 7 years now but never enjoyed a comfortable drive all this time worst was that I need to park the car for a year coz my wife was pregnant and could not afford to take a bumpy ride it was so terrible Try ringing BMW dealer can't change off market wheels it's not recommended from the manufacture and its your own responsibility if an accident happens ,very confusing dilama paid lot of money and now no resale value ,after all this terrible very terriable experience can anyone please suggest me some sort of solution for this problem ,I am not a complain machine but its a real exp and still in love with BMW


What you really need to do is search on your concern - an excellent skill to acquire.

Such an ability expands one's horizon beyond imagination!

You'll quickly find the first line of defense: different tires. Tirerack will guide you there - look for NON-RUNFLAT tires; reap the rewards. If they have a recommended installer in the London area, you may find a list by entering your postal code - I'll leave it to you.

Then, a set of Koni FSD shocks'll sa-mooth your travels - search, search and search again on this!

Here in the USA, Conti DWS is the preferred all around tire, suitable for all seasons. Good luck to you! Let us know what you decide.

.

Bemo 01-19-2013 09:08 AM

Hmmm I prefer safety in exchange for trading in a bit of comfort, though a recent loaner left me in awe and I had to look 3 times to convince myself that it had the stock Conti SSRs Run flats. So I'm staying with RFTs as, indeed, this is one of THE best upgrades that came along with the car! :)

CALWATERBOY 01-19-2013 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bemo (Post 7323987)
Hmmm I prefer safety in exchange for trading in a bit of comfort, though a recent loaner left me in awe and I had to look 3 times to convince myself that it had the stock Conti SSRs Run flats. So I'm staying with RFTs as, indeed, this is one of THE best upgrades that came along with the car! :)


Bemo, OP has a 2006, diff than 2011+ when ride improvements were made. Though new generation RFT's are better, they won't correct suspension deficiencies or worn shocks.

OP - Koni's might be the best thing you've ever done. Maybe. Certainly for your car.

Mybimmer10 01-19-2013 09:31 AM

Hi, I recently did some research on this & found that if you put regular tires on it, it won't handle as it should because the run flats are a stiff side wall tire & regular ones have a soft side wall that takes away from the way it's supposed to handle. And then there's the safety factor. If you have ever had a front tire blow out at high speeds,you know how violent the steering wheel can react.
With run flats at during a high speed blow out,they do not react half as bad as regular tires do..thus,maybe saving your life,not to mention your loved ones that are in the car with you & also the others you might hit. So,I'm sticking with the run flats and as anyone knows...your not going far on regular tires with a flat but run flats are made to get you to a SAFE PLACE TO PARK your beloved bimmer & not get stuck in a..uh..not so great neighborhood as well!

CALWATERBOY 01-19-2013 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mybimmer10 (Post 7324026)
Hi, I recently did some research on this & found that if you put regular tires on it, it won't handle as it should because the run flats are a stiff side wall tire & regular ones have a soft side wall that takes away from the way it's supposed to handle. And then there's the safety factor. If you have ever had a front tire blow out at high speeds,you know how violent the steering wheel can react.
With run flats at during a high speed blow out,they do not react half as bad as regular tires do..thus,maybe saving your life,not to mention your loved ones that are in the car with you & also the others you might hit. So,I'm sticking with the run flats and as anyone knows...your not going far on regular tires with a flat but run flats are made to get you to a SAFE PLACE TO PARK your beloved bimmer & not get stuck in a..uh..not so great neighborhood as well!


Running Michelin PSS non-runflats. Much better handling and ride than RFT's - you'll find that's the usual conclusion.

Had a flat w/OEM RFT's. None yet w/non-runflats - keep a ContiComfotKit in my trunk just in case.

No worries.

.

F32Fleet 01-19-2013 10:52 AM

Drop the thee pressure. I run 32/36 and its fine.

Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App

Bemo 01-19-2013 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mybimmer10 (Post 7324026)
Hi, I recently did some research on this & found that if you put regular tires on it, it won't handle as it should because the run flats are a stiff side wall tire & regular ones have a soft side wall that takes away from the way it's supposed to handle. And then there's the safety factor. If you have ever had a front tire blow out at high speeds,you know how violent the steering wheel can react.
With run flats at during a high speed blow out,they do not react half as bad as regular tires do..thus,maybe saving your life,not to mention your loved ones that are in the car with you & also the others you might hit. So,I'm sticking with the run flats and as anyone knows...your not going far on regular tires with a flat but run flats are made to get you to a SAFE PLACE TO PARK your beloved bimmer & not get stuck in a..uh..not so great neighborhood as well!

Finally someone who thinks like me! :)

If the $200-300 price difference between go flats and RFTs is that significant, maybe you should sell your bimmers and get bicycles instead.
As for the quality of the ride, the go flats remain better but not that much better compared to the current vs. 1st generation of run flats, all in the context of spirited, everyday driving conditions. For track use, obviously go with high performance.....

bear-avhistory 01-19-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bemo (Post 7324233)
Finally someone who thinks like me! :)

If the $200-300 price difference between go flats and RFTs is that significant, maybe you should sell your bimmers and get bicycles instead.
As for the quality of the ride, the go flats remain better but not that much better compared to the current vs. 1st generation of run flats, all in the context of spirited, everyday driving conditions. For track use, obviously go with high performance.....

If a $300 per tire price was an issue I would not be pulling off new tires (2K miles) & replacing them. Its really silly to do the old "if you can afford a BMW you should be able to afford -------" to justify something that may be unnecessary, over priced or simply a different choice then you are comfortable with. At any rate $300 is stretching the point a bit since the spread for a whole set of factory issue RFT's over up sized quality summers is about $110.

Back to the tires & winding up in a fiery crash because they are not run flats. I got my license in 1959 & have had exactly 1 catastrophic tire failure at speed. This includes a daily 130 mile round trip commute on the GSP & NJTP for about 20 years. The car IIRC was a Pontiac was rolling fast in the outside lane. Front right blew out its sidewall. I reacted properly & got the car to the slow side shoulder so I could put on Mickey Mouse.

Whatever generation the RFT's came on my 2011 sucked. Harsh, Crash banging over road irregularities & had a lot of trouble holding the cars torque. Switched to a few sizes up go flat summer compound & made what was a marginal car al lot of run to drive.

SilverX3 01-19-2013 01:48 PM

switch to conventional tire and buy yourself a gluekit or donut tire from local dealer

you get 100% ride satisfation

Mark K 01-19-2013 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverX3 (Post 7324351)
switch to conventional tire and buy yourself a gluekit or donut tire from local dealer

you get 100% ride satisfation

+1

And as far as high-speed blowouts go ... living in Germany might count for that concern. From what I see here, you guys live in CT and FL - what "high speed"?

captainaudio 01-19-2013 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malikbari (Post 7323888)
Hi everyone
Need to share an BMW experience of runflat tyre ,bought a new BMW in 2006 m sport pack 318i saloon payed over 25000 when new it's been nearly 7 years now but never enjoyed a comfortable drive all this time worst was that I need to park the car for a year coz my wife was pregnant and could not afford to take a bumpy ride it was so terrible Try ringing BMW dealer can't change off market wheels it's not recommended from the manufacture and its your own responsibility if an accident happens ,very confusing dilama paid lot of money and now no resale value ,after all this terrible very terriable experience can anyone please suggest me some sort of solution for this problem ,I am not a complain machine but its a real exp and still in love with BMW

I bought an E93 335i with sport package in 2007. The car was purchased in South Florida and I had no issue with the suspension or the RFTs on the relatively pristine roads of South Florida. After a month and 2,000 miles I shipped the car to my home in NYC. The car was for all practical purposes undriveable on NYC roads. I kept the RFTs on the car for a few weeks and was so disgusted with the way it drove I was prepare to get rid of it regardless of how much money I lost. I joined a couple of BMW Internet forums and expressed my concerns. Several people suggested that I get rid of the Run Flats. Before I replaced them I took the car to Lime Rock Park (The Road Racing Center of The East) and drove it on the Autocross course and the skid pad. My friend Travis, who his a two time national champion rally driver and a Senior Skip Barber Instructor, also drove the car and pushed it very hard. I then replaced the RFTs with Pirelli P_Zero Nero M&S ultra high performance all season tires. The improvement in ride quality was dramatic and the handling improved as well. After the Pirellis had been on the car for a few weeks I took it back to Lime Rock and Travis and I repeated the test we had done with the RFTs on the car. We both felt that the car handled better with the Pirellis. The stiff sidewalls of the RFTs will provide "crisp turn in" which many people equate to good handling. The issues that I had with the RFTs was that they did not give a lot of warning before they loose traction and that they bounced all over the place on rough pavement and could stay in contact with the road surface.

To generate maximum grip a tire needs a certain amount of what is called "Slip Angle". If you google "Slip Angle" you will get some good information. An overly stiff sidewall will not allow sufficient slip angle to generate maximum grip.

Even after I had replaced the RFTs I had an issue with the harshness of the suspension. I was getting "Pothole Explosions" and when I hit construction plates or other imperfection the car felt like it was going to break. Actually it did break. I had to replace 5 rims and 8 tires that were destroyed.

There was a lot about the car that I liked, the steering feel the way it handled (on smooth surfaces) and I was determined to try to get the suspension issues sorted out. What I eventually wound up with is a set of Conti DWS (non RFT) tires and a set of Koni FSD shocks. At this point the car is what I thought I was buying in 2007. The ride is firm, but not harsh or uncomfortable, the car handles better than it did with the OEM RFTs and dampers. Not having a spare tire or room for one is an issue. I have a Conti Comfort Kit, BMW Assist and a AAA Premium membership.

As for the safety issue I did not consider the 335i with RFTs and the stock suspension to be a particularly safe car. The car had a propensity to bend wheels and shred tires. I did not want my wife driving it by herself because I was afraid she would be stranded RFTs or not. I have been driving the 335i go-flat tires and no spare for 5 years and 40,000 miles. I had one flat tire that required me to call for a tow.

We eventually got 750Lix to drive in the city and use the E93 as a weekend fun car. The 7 has RFTs but they are not an issue. In comfort mode the car is oblivious to NYC potholes and in sport mode it handles the twisties amazingly well for a car of its size.

Bottom line:
The car will actually handle better with go flat tires and will be an order of magnitude better with Koni FSD dampers. There will be no comparison in terms of ride quality.

CA

Spagolli94 01-20-2013 07:48 AM

I had a bonafide pothole explosion yesterday. I was going about 85 on the highway. Typically, the ride quality, even with RFT and stock shocks, is quite good on the highway. I was passing through a construction zone (all the workers were off for the weekend) and the pavement started getting pretty bad, but my car was taking it in stride. Then out of nowhere, there was a frost heave type bump in the road. It was practically as large as a speed bump and went all the way across, so it wasn't possible to swerve around it. The impact was so harsh, I thought I'd broken the car in two. I was shocked to see that the car continued on, smooth, without a broken alignment. At the next rest stop, I stopped for gas and checked the wheels. I thought I was going to find a bubble or some evidence of damage. Nope. All seemed well. Steering seems fine. Guess I got lucky. But looks like I'm going to make an appointment to get these Koni FSD installed after all.

Bemo 01-20-2013 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bear-avhistory (Post 7324333)
If a $300 per tire price was an issue I would not be pulling off new tires (2K miles) & replacing them. Its really silly to do the old "if you can afford a BMW you should be able to afford -------" to justify something that may be unnecessary, over priced or simply a different choice then you are comfortable with. At any rate $300 is stretching the point a bit since the spread for a whole set of factory issue RFT's over up sized quality summers is about $110.

Back to the tires & winding up in a fiery crash because they are not run flats. I got my license in 1959 & have had exactly 1 catastrophic tire failure at speed. This includes a daily 130 mile round trip commute on the GSP & NJTP for about 20 years. The car IIRC was a Pontiac was rolling fast in the outside lane. Front right blew out its sidewall. I reacted properly & got the car to the slow side shoulder so I could put on Mickey Mouse.

Whatever generation the RFT's came on my 2011 sucked. Harsh, Crash banging over road irregularities & had a lot of trouble holding the cars torque. Switched to a few sizes up go flat summer compound & made what was a marginal car al lot of run to drive.

You're entitled to your opinion and I respect it.

The point I was trying to make rotated around 2 primary complaints with respect to RFTs, price and handling. I am simply saying that neither is that much worse in the context of every day, non-performance driving, when compared with traditional go-flat alternatives.

Safety, however, is the big winner with RFTs. In my instance, safety is paramount and edges out price and handling. If you've ever swapped a flat tire on a highway, you'll understand my point. If you cannot, pray that you never have to.
As for the "silly" argument, there is nothing silly in it. So I'll say it again, you cannot buy a BMW and whine about differences in tire costs. This is peanuts compared to the overall price and maintenance $$ that the car will require. The old saying about being dollar cheap and penny wise may come to mind....

bear-avhistory 01-20-2013 09:00 AM

Agree - everyone is entitled to their own opinion & most of us have different comfort zones when it comes to doing things. My point is the price difference of $106 for one set of 4 tires vs another at Tire Rack is not material to the conversation.

Bridgestone Potenza RE050A RFT Set of 4: $1,360.00

Michelin Pilot Super Sport go-flat Set of 4 $1,254.00

captainaudio 01-20-2013 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bemo (Post 7325453)
You're entitled to your opinion and I respect it.

The point I was trying to make rotated around 2 primary complaints with respect to RFTs, price and handling. I am simply saying that neither is that much worse in the context of every day, non-performance driving, when compared with traditional go-flat alternatives.

Safety, however, is the big winner with RFTs. In my instance, safety is paramount and edges out price and handling. If you've ever swapped a flat tire on a highway, you'll understand my point. If you cannot, pray that you never have to.
As for the "silly" argument, there is nothing silly in it. So I'll say it again, you cannot buy a BMW and whine about differences in tire costs. This is peanuts compared to the overall price and maintenance $$ that the car will require. The old saying about being dollar cheap and penny wise may come to mind....

Price was not an issue when I replaced the RFTs but comfort and handling was. The difference in handling could easily be felt in ordinary driving because even at moderate speeds the RFTs would bounce all over the place and could not stay in contact with the road surface. I found them to be dangerous because it was so easy for the car to become unsettled or lose traction.

I agree with the dangers of changing a tire at the side of the road but that is what BMW Assist and AAA are for.

Also keep in mind that you have on several occasions announced your desire to own an M3 - a car that comes with regular tires and no spare.

CA

DnA Diesel 01-20-2013 10:42 AM

Anyone who tries to make an argument that running a high-quality, ZR Y or W-rated tire is UNSAFE, is certainly entitled to their own opinion...but it will be just that, an OPINION. Does F1 run RFTs? No, didn't think so...

The engineer and past programme manager in me thinks that BMW moved to RFTs because the moderate increase in unsprung weight and price to adjust spring and damping rates on suspension was, from a business cost comparison basis, worth the reduced production costs and sprung weight of no longer having a spare.

I, like CAL and Bear, run Michelin PSS conventional tires (and a conti tire kit, ironically only ever used once...on my old Potenza RFTs as I had a puncture in a remote area where the drive out distance exceeded the RFT de-pressured safety distance). It was all about ride quality AND performance, and nothing at all to do with cost.


Malikbari, feel content that if you get a decent quality conventional tyre ( ;) ) and get either a conti inflation kit or a good roadside service plan, you will be just fine and your car will not blow up and go flying off a cliff because it didn't have the latest tire technology.

Enjoy you BMW!

Regards
D.

p.s. I forgot to add earlier that proper (read daily and weekly) vehicle inspection, to include tire pressure and condition, is far more important that getting some specific kind of technology and ignoring or neglecting things and hoping they will still work correctly or safely when called upon...

Bemo 01-20-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainaudio (Post 7325551)
Price was not an issue when I replaced the RFTs but comfort and handling was. The difference in handling could easily be felt in ordinary driving because even at moderate speeds the RFTs would bounce all over the place and could not stay in contact with the road surface. I found them to be dangerous because it was so easy for the car to become unsettled or lose traction.

I agree with the dangers of changing a tire at the side of the road but that is what BMW Assist and AAA are for.

Also keep in mind that you have on several occasions announced your desire to own an M3 - a car that comes with regular tires and no spare.

CA

I know, isn't that a tough one to solve!!! Suppose I'll worry about it when the time comes. Hope you're doing well.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:44 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms