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-   -   No 320i or F32 at Philly Car Show (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671111)

beden1 01-19-2013 07:52 PM

No 320i or F32 at Philly Car Show
 
I was talking with a couple of people working the show. They said the Philly Car Show is now a B show and does not get the new car or concept car introductions like it used to get. The A shows are Detroit, Chicago, LA and NYC. Philly is the fourth largest market in the US. What gives?

No BMW 320i or 4 Series Coupe. No C7 Corvette either.

If I was young again of say 18-30 years of age, I would be all over the Subaru BRZ for a well equipped price of under $27,000. The car screams fun and the quality was very good overall, particularly considering the price. I would love to test drive one.

The Cadillac ATS is just boring looking and would need a lot of upgraded options to make it interesting. Nobody was even looking at the car up on a moving pedestal except for us.

Our next car when we replace the '01 Suburban will most likely be a Range Rover Sport. It's quality goods and stood out above anything in it's class.

The Tahoe is still the best bargain out there and the only (?) to offer true 4 wheel drive. Buick and Cadillac no longer offer it (only all-wheel drive). It also has the best storage space, except for the Suburban.

My wife liked the BMW 5 Series because of the cup holders. She thought the interior looked cheaper and did not like the headlights. Nothing about it made us want to trade her '08 535xi for the new model.

The Mercedes line-up was very disappointing. Plastic chrome and plastic looking interior wood trim. Nothing on the car except for the leather seats (also looked fake) was real. The new Hyundai's luxury sedan actually looked better with a sticker of around $60,000.

Most cars were very disappointing because of the plastic and cheap looking parts. Most car lines have lost whatever perceived quality and uniqueness they had. Mercedes has totally lost it's way (this coming from someone who has owned 3 Mercedes in the past).

Porsche's lineup still presents top quality. The new Cayman looks sharp in person.

One car line that really shocked me as a quality offering standout were the Mini Coopers. Very solid build and quality appointments. I've seen them before, but maybe they looked so good to me this time because most other cars looked so cheap.

The Maseratis and Mclarens looked very good, as did the Bentleys and Rolls Royces (obviously). Ferrari was absent.

The BMWs, Audis and Jaguars were the top for overall presentation for more upscale production cars.

The best of show awards goes to a 1930's vintage Cadillac and a Packard. They were the stars of the show, bar none.

I'm happy to stand pat with our current stable. Overall, I am dismayed by the state of the auto industry from a quality standpoint.

jfox335i 01-20-2013 06:20 AM

It's disappointing that Philly is a B show that doesn't get the concepts and new models. I don't recall it being that way when I was a kid.

Agree on the mini. Bought the wife a 2013 Mini Cooper S Clubman yesterday. It's pretty sharp looking, pepper white, black rims, black bonnet stripes,black roof w/rails, black back bumper, diffuser. Car feels like it has good quality, doors are nice and heavy. She loves it. Gonna tint the windows on Monday, should look pretty good when done.

shabadoo25 01-20-2013 06:45 AM

I can't stand the head or tail lights on the pre-2011 5ers.

boramkiv 01-20-2013 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1 (Post 7324882)
If I was young again of say 18-30 years of age, I would be all over the Subaru BRZ for a well equipped price of under $27,000. The car screams fun and the quality was very good overall, particularly considering the price. I would love to test drive one.

Very well made car IMO. The first thing that stood out under the hood was how open everything was, not too much plastic covering the whole engine. Everything was easily accessible making engine work a breeze. That thing would spend minimum time in pit lane as it is. The interior was just awesome, and again that park brake handle stood out. It instantly screams drift car. I love the layout of it, easily a project car right out of the box.
I think the Scion FRS is a bit more stripped out though.

krash 01-20-2013 08:59 AM

Was Philly ever an A car show? I always thought of it as a B car show. I might go next weekend though. It's still a lot of fun.

beden1 01-20-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krash (Post 7325515)
Was Philly ever an A car show? I always thought of it as a B car show. I might go next weekend though. It's still a lot of fun.

The people I spoke with said the Philly Car Show was an A show until about 7 years ago.

krash 01-20-2013 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1 (Post 7325524)
The people I spoke with said the Philly Car Show was an A show until about 7 years ago.

Yeah,not that it really matters either way for me. It's still a lot of fun. Good way to spend a Saturday or Sunday.

manicottiK 01-20-2013 09:46 AM

Frankfurt Auto Show
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1 (Post 7325524)
The people I spoke with said the Philly Car Show was an A show until about 7 years ago.

That's about right and about when I started going to the Frankfurt show instead. The Frankfurt show is the largest car show in the world and is held on odd-numbered years.

If you are in Philly, can sleep on a plane, and have some time and cash to spare, I highly recommend going to the Frankfurt show . There are so many European brands that never make it to the States that the show is very exciting (and a bit depressing because of our lack of choice). I typically fly out on a Wednesday after work, and do the show on Thursday. (Going mid-week avoids the larger crowds.) At the end of the day, I catch a connecting flight to where I want to sightsee and chill out before flying home on Sunday.

The 65th International Motor Show in Frankfurt is open to the public from September 14-22, 2013 and costs 18; there are "trade" days earlier and anyone can buy a trade ticket, but they cost more and don't go on sale until July. Info at http://www.iaa.de/en/visitors/tickets/. Enjoy!

Nedmundo 01-20-2013 10:24 AM

I was wondering whether the C7 'Vette and other noteworthy intros would make it to Philly, so thanks. I wasn't optimistic, partly because it's not a top show, but also because it's immediately after the Detroit show this year. IIRC, the Philly show is usually a week or two later.

BTW, I have tested the FR-S, and it is an absolute blast to drive. I want one, but a third car in Center City probably ain't gonna happen, and I'm not sure I'd like it for the daily slog to Wilmington.

beden1 01-20-2013 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedmundo (Post 7325672)
I was wondering whether the C7 'Vette and other noteworthy intros would make it to Philly, so thanks. I wasn't optimistic, partly because it's not a top show, but also because it's immediately after the Detroit show this year. IIRC, the Philly show is usually a week or two later.

BTW, I have tested the FR-S, and it is an absolute blast to drive. I want one, but a third car in Center City probably ain't gonna happen, and I'm not sure I'd like it for the daily slog to Wilmington.

The Scion looks good too but I prefer the Subarus because of their reliabilty and high ratings in crash tests. Our 2003 WRX was a great car to own.

jfox335i 01-20-2013 02:58 PM

Just got back from the show in Philly. Was a good time, but as expected didn't see a whole lot in the way of concept. The 2014 cayman was beautiful, I really like how the style of this car has evolved. BMW showcase was meh. The M5 is nice, the seat in the M5 is to die for. BMW really does have the greatest seats. I can take or leave the M6 gran coupe. There wasn't a whole lot to see at BMW, and their area was pretty small. Seemed like the M6, M5, and the 335ix M-sport were garnering the most attention.

First time I've seen the F30 335 in estoril blue. Nice color, makes me wish I had held out for one, or just ordered one. Had a 6spd too. I wouldn't want one of these auto show cars though. Kids get in there and work the shifter like they think they're Vin Diesel.

I was impressed by the Volvo C30. Looks like it would be a good DD. I've never really paid much attention to Volvo, but this one was nice. I liked the Ergonomics on the inside, seat was comfortable, felt like I had good space, and the 6spd just from The feel of it, felt like it had some quality. Good price too. I haven't heard this one mentioned here before, is this a 3-series competitor. I would think so. Seemed like a better option then the ATS(blah). Was also disappointed Infiniti didn't have the Q50 on display.

Some nice GT-Rs in the DUB showcase. A couple of bimmers, unimpressed with the M6 and 650i, way too over customized for my tastes, and those deep dish rims are hideous. The E46 M3 on display was stunning. Had one car there, looked like on old vette, but the swoop was in the front and back. Can't recall the name, but was a sharp looking classic car. 1903 coach was charming. Told my 5 yr old son it was older then his grandfather, and he looked at me with big eyes and said "even older then Mommy??" Hilarious. His mother didn't find it quite as funny.

beden1 01-20-2013 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfox335i (Post 7326048)
Just got back from the show in Philly. Was a good time, but as expected didn't see a whole lot in the way of concept. The 2014 cayman was beautiful, I really like how the style of this car has evolved. BMW showcase was meh. The M5 is nice, the seat in the M5 is to die for. BMW really does have the greatest seats. I can take or leave the M6 gran coupe. There wasn't a whole lot to see at BMW, and their area was pretty small. Seemed like the M6, M5, and the 335ix M-sport were garnering the most attention.

First time I've seen the F30 335 in estoril blue. Nice color, makes me wish I had held out for one, or just ordered one. Had a 6spd too. I wouldn't want one of these auto show cars though. Kids get in there and work the shifter like they think they're Vin Diesel.

I was impressed by the Volvo C30. Looks like it would be a good DD. I've never really paid much attention to Volvo, but this one was nice. I liked the Ergonomics on the inside, seat was comfortable, felt like I had good space, and the 6spd just from The feel of it, felt like it had some quality. Good price too. I haven't heard this one mentioned here before, is this a 3-series competitor. I would think so. Seemed like a better option then the ATS(blah). Was also disappointed Infiniti didn't have the Q50 on display.

Some nice GT-Rs in the DUB showcase. A couple of bimmers, unimpressed with the M6 and 650i, way too over customized for my tastes, and those deep dish rims are hideous. The E46 M3 on display was stunning. Had one car there, looked like on old vette, but the swoop was in the front and back. Can't recall the name, but was a sharp looking classic car. 1903 coach was charming. Told my 5 yr old son it was older then his grandfather, and he looked at me with big eyes and said "even older then Mommy??" Hilarious. His mother didn't find it quite as funny.

Sounds like something my son would have said at the time around the same age.

The wheels on some of those cars and SUVs in the lower section were HUGE! Were some of them like 30s? There was also a real nice Harley that was for sale, but I stayed away because I'd no doubt get killed trying to head back to the suburbs from Philly.

One thing I noticed made me laugh. There was some detailer who advertised on numerous cars trying to show how great his work is. The only problem was, that they all had scratches and swirls on their paint surfaces. I guess he probably is a detailer for a local car dealer! :dunno:

Jamesonsviggen 01-20-2013 03:50 PM

ATS was packed here in Detroit. They had a 2.0t 6mt performance with a nice twin 5 spoke 19" wheel I had not seen before. I sat in it, materials were nicer than in photographs, leather was of a softer grade than the 3 series. Back seat and trunk were tight, the F30 is far better here.

I liked it a fair bit. If the price had been right on one and not my F30 I would have been fine to own it regardless of what people think about Cadillac.

The C7 debut was packed, people we're 10 deep around it. I walked over to the one car hanging on a wall as there was no crowds and got an excellent picture. All my friends here are engineers so they did not like my talking about how good the new Porsches are and instantly said the new C7 will be so much better. I am in GM country right now, it's very hard to reason with them lol.

jfox335i 01-20-2013 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beden1 (Post 7326069)
Sounds like something my son would have said at the time around the same age.

The wheels on some of those cars and SUVs in the lower section were HUGE! Were some of them like 30s? There was also a real nice Harley that was for sale, but I stayed away because I'd no doubt get killed trying to head back to the suburbs from Philly.

One thing I noticed made me laugh. There was some detailer who advertised on numerous cars trying to show how great his work is. The only problem was, that they all had scratches and swirls on their paint surfaces. I guess he probably is a detailer for a local car dealer! :dunno:

I think the wheels on Trent Coles hummer were 32s. 25s I think on Jeremy maclin's truck. Excessive wheels are excessive. Harley's were nice, but I'm not really a bike guy. I can't see spending 20K on something that doesn't even have a roof.

tim330i 01-21-2013 11:02 AM

The 4 series won't be at Chicago either, it is going to Geneva and then probably back for New York.

Tim

JoeFromPA 01-21-2013 11:59 AM

I went on Friday (black tie) and enjoyed myself. I don't consider this to be a top auto show so it's not a let down for me - I was happy an 328i wagon was there. Otherwise, it was a good time with just overall low quality food for the price of admission :)

One thing I know many will disagree with but I found the new 335 in estoril blue to be awful. The color was striking at first but then very quickly became "Omg that's gonna look like **** in 3 years"

And I like estoril blue m3's. It's the lines of the f30 for some reason. To each his own. Color always looked good in pictures to me; maybe it was the lighting.

The f30 continues to impress me overall. The current m5/m6 platforms are just huge - way too big. It's not just the physical size of the car - it's the high beltline and shortened greenhouse.

The one car that overall struck me was the Porsche Cayenne GTS they had at Porsche. Spectacular interior/space/layout/functionality all around. Every single thing I touched felt solid and high quality.

The boxster/cayman struck me as very nice cockpits....but....maybe it was the seat being all the way down/back, but the seating position was not good for a Porsche. I felt too inside the car. Panamera was the same way, and the 911. It really doesn't feel as "right on top of the road" as Porsche used to in their sports cars.

After getting in/around them but not driving them, I would get a Cayenne for my everyday life (still available in 6mt!) and an ol 993 for the fun times.

beden1 01-21-2013 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA (Post 7327613)
I went on Friday (black tie) and enjoyed myself. I don't consider this to be a top auto show so it's not a let down for me - I was happy an 328i wagon was there. Otherwise, it was a good time with just overall low quality food for the price of admission :)

One thing I know many will disagree with but I found the new 335 in estoril blue to be awful. The color was striking at first but then very quickly became "Omg that's gonna look like **** in 3 years"

And I like estoril blue m3's. It's the lines of the f30 for some reason. To each his own. Color always looked good in pictures to me; maybe it was the lighting.

The f30 continues to impress me overall. The current m5/m6 platforms are just huge - way too big. It's not just the physical size of the car - it's the high beltline and shortened greenhouse.

The one car that overall struck me was the Porsche Cayenne GTS they had at Porsche. Spectacular interior/space/layout/functionality all around. Every single thing I touched felt solid and high quality.

The boxster/cayman struck me as very nice cockpits....but....maybe it was the seat being all the way down/back, but the seating position was not good for a Porsche. I felt too inside the car. Panamera was the same way, and the 911. It really doesn't feel as "right on top of the road" as Porsche used to in their sports cars.

After getting in/around them but not driving them, I would get a Cayenne for my everyday life (still available in 6mt!) and an ol 993 for the fun times.

I really like the Cayenne GTS too, and I forget the price, but it was real high for an SUV (was it well over $100,000?) The new Carrera 911 interior is similar to the Panamera, and kinda like the seating position in my ZO6 (sold). The center console is higher to give more of a surrounded cockpit feel and a flat arm to stick shifting position. I'm used to that in the Vette, but I agree, I feel more like I'm driving a true sports car in my GTS Carrera than I did when driving the new 991-911 Carrera. I had mine out yesterday with 55 degree temps and the salt finally washed off the roads. I was feeling great, especially when I started looking the car over, and all I saw was quality as compared to most of the over priced cheap crap the manufacturers were trying to peddle at the car show.

I am going to need a replacement for my '01 Suburban sometime this year. I really liked the Range Rover Sport (also on the expensive side but a bit cheaper than the Cayenne S), and I'm also going to look at the Cayenne S diesel. I'm just having a hard time justifying in my mind paying those prices for an SUV that is going to sit out (no more garage space).

My wife really likes the Range Rover Sport. Maybe I'll sell the Suburban and her BMW 535xi, and then I'll be able to park whichever replacement in the garage. She decided to retire early starting next month, so maybe she no longer needs her sedan? She can always share with me when she wants to drive something fun - either the 335is or the Porsche.

beden1 01-22-2013 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim330i (Post 7327506)
The 4 series won't be at Chicago either, it is going to Geneva and then probably back for New York.

Tim

I'm sure that will frustrate more people like me wanting to see the new 4 Series up close. I wonder why auto makers don't plan to have more cars available for their public to see at the car shows?

tim330i 01-22-2013 09:40 AM

I think because it is a concept car. Concept cars have special BMW rules so it can't just be sent around like a normal car. There were two guys from BMW AG who's entire job was to babysit the car at Detroit, and that was the media days. It has to be worse for public days.

Tim

beden1 01-22-2013 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tim330i (Post 7329625)
I think because it is a concept car. Concept cars have special BMW rules so it can't just be sent around like a normal car. There were two guys from BMW AG who's entire job was to babysit the car at Detroit, and that was the media days. It has to be worse for public days.

Tim

I really like this concept 4 Series and hope this ends up as the real deal. I think this car would be a winner for BMW. It is similar to the 6 Grand Sport, but you wouldn't have to pay the big price of entry and have to eat the typically poor resale value in the end.

I also think this 4 Series design would make for a great starting point for the M4 .

krash 01-27-2013 06:56 PM

My son and I went today. It was packed, absolutely packed. We still had a good time though.

I agree about the overall quality of cars. Lots of cheap plastic parts all over the place...Especially disappointing to me were Mercedes, Jaguar, and the Cadillac ATS. I just think all of them are a notch below BMW and Audi in terms of interior material quality. By the way, I was really impressed by Audi. I never really consider Audi because there isn't a dealer close to my house (within reason), but they are really nice. Honestly, I could easily be just as happy in an S4 as a 335.

Getting back to Mercedes and Caddillac...the high end Mercedes are nice, but the C and E definitely represent a drop in quality to me compared to the 3 and the 5 (IMHO). I still love the Cadillac CTS Coupe. I know it's not popular on this forum, but that's still a favorite of mine.

Good thing Infiniti is coming out with a replacement for the G. The last time I was at this car show was 6 years ago, and the G I sat in today is basically identical to the G I sat in back then. Not kidding! And by the way, I didn't like it back then either.

To me the biggest bargain out there is the Dodge Charger SRT8. 470HP, all the bells and whistles, and a base price of only $45,000. Seriously, if you're not familiar with these, then you need to take a closer look...Compared to the Ford Mustang and Chevy Camaro, Dodge did a much better job with the instrumentation and overall quality of materials. Actually, it's not even close. I'd rate the Charger a 1000x higher over the Mustang and Camaro.

The estoril blue 335 looked great, but there was a very long wait to get in it. The silver M6 was really hot looking too.

Our highlight of the day was cheesesteaks at Carmen's in the Reading Terminal.

EDIT: One thing to add. Red stitching all over the place. That must the latest design trend. We're all obviously very aware of the red stitching in the F30 sport line, but there was red stitching in countless cars. VWs, Suburus, Mitsubishis, Mazdas...especially prevalent in the sport models geared more towards driving enthusiasts (e.g, GTI, WRX, BRZ, Lancer EVO..)


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