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-   -   Time to upgrade? (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671608)

slven 01-22-2013 07:41 AM

Time to upgrade?
 
(also accidentally posted this first on new x3 forum)....
So, I have a 2005 X3 (manual transmission) that I LOVE and fully own. Unfortunately, it has 162k miles and problems are starting to creep up here and there - in the past 12 months, I had 2 pretty big repair bills (though each under 2k) and my sun roof has stopped working (one of my favorite parts of the car). My clutch is still the original, so i know that has to eventually go.....BUT, today my car is running great...so hard to justify a cost of a new x3. The problem is we are expecting our first baby this summer, and we (er, my husband) is concerned about driving an older car and breaking down with a baby (my family lives 5-6 hours away, so we go back and forth at least every once every 2 months).

We have a very slightly used 2012 X3 on hold at a dealer, and after a lot of research, it seems to be a good deal...yet, I can't bring myself to give up my 2005 x3 that seems to be running great....today anyway. Any advice or persuasion either way? Do you think I'm really due for some more big repairs on my 2005 X3?

usaret 01-22-2013 08:47 AM

We're retired and have to rely on a fixed income and whatever our investments happen to pay that month so we look at cars differently.

We have a 2009 with 104,000 miles that we can't imagine parting with. We just keep a credit card with a fairly high limit in the car at all times. When we need it we'll use it and just pay it back off for the next time. You could do that or escrow a portion of what you would be paying for a newer one.

That being said, being retired we have no schedule, and 99.9% of the time don't have to be anywhere at any particular time. So we have the luxury of not being badly inconvenienced by a broken down car.

x3brian 01-22-2013 08:50 AM

A well maintained x3 will last a very long time:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=291640

One super commuter got 208k trouble free miles out of his 05 (his reports above). I have 109k on my 09 and it has been trouble free.

With your cars age the known maintenance areas are:

1) vanos hoses and o rings
2) valve cover gasket leaking
3) ccv
4) oil filter housing gasket
5) battery
6) new shocks and struts

Outside of those just routine maintenance is required...fluids, spark plugs, filters, and o2 sensors.

If you are up to date then you have nothing to worry about being stranded on a long trip.

Where I side with your husband on though is that you have to be willing to accept with an aging car non drivability things are going to break (ie window regulators, leaking vapor barriers, sun roof cassettes, cup holders etc). If your are fine with that....in the long run it will be cheaper to keep an aging paid off car than making $400 a month payments on a new one. That way you can set aside the monthly car payments for repairs.

We will be here to help too..

As a side note though...the new f25 x3 has its share of problems:

Erratic shifting and hesitation

Rear hatch wiring issues

Ecu replacement as a result of losing dsc programming.

Various rattles and premature brake wear.

Those are the notes I have in my parents 01/12 build 2012 x3 with 6,000 miles.

slven 01-22-2013 09:45 AM

Thanks. I think my husband's argument is also why continue throwing good money at bad....and as much as I love the car, it is time to cut losses and sell it (or trade in) while we can still get something for it. At a minimum, I know I will need new tires soon and as mentioned, I don't think the clutch can go too much longer before it gives out...and that's quite an expense.

I really had no issues with my car until the past 7-8 months, so starting around 155k miles. Those with 100-120k miles, I was in the same boat too back then - no issues. Now, slowly becoming different story. We did end up stranded on a hot summer day last summer in Dunkin donuts parking lot when my ignition suddenly went and car would not start and had to call AAA. Luckily, we were 2 miles away from home and about 5 miles away from the service center....but not sure what I would have done on a hot summer day further away from home and with a newborn in the car nonetheless. While i know that may still happen with a new car, I think the general thought is that its still less likely to...so, when I think of that, I think parting with my beloved 2005 x3 may have to be.

spokelizard 01-22-2013 01:41 PM

Of course, if you're looking at a newer X3, the manual transmission is no longer available. That's important to me, another reason why I expect to nurse my X3 into prolonged old age, even at significant annual cost.

But my thinking might change radically if I were taking long trips with a newborn.

usaret 01-22-2013 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slven (Post 7329823)
Thanks. I think my husband's argument is also why continue throwing good money at bad....and as much as I love the car, it is time to cut losses and sell it (or trade in) while we can still get something for it. At a minimum, I know I will need new tires soon and as mentioned, I don't think the clutch can go too much longer before it gives out...and that's quite an expense.

I really had no issues with my car until the past 7-8 months, so starting around 155k miles. Those with 100-120k miles, I was in the same boat too back then - no issues. Now, slowly becoming different story. We did end up stranded on a hot summer day last summer in Dunkin donuts parking lot when my ignition suddenly went and car would not start and had to call AAA. Luckily, we were 2 miles away from home and about 5 miles away from the service center....but not sure what I would have done on a hot summer day further away from home and with a newborn in the car nonetheless. While i know that may still happen with a new car, I think the general thought is that its still less likely to...so, when I think of that, I think parting with my beloved 2005 x3 may have to be.

Totally understandable. I'm going to try and follow in Murray's footsteps. The man is my inspiration....

http://driving-line.com/volume-vi/bm...murray-fowler/

Dominic49 01-22-2013 01:50 PM

Do you have a lein out against your current X3?

Are you going to pay cash for a new one?

iamthewalrus 01-22-2013 02:08 PM

It comes down to Net Present Value: What's the discounted value of $2-3K / year for the next 10 years vs. a $45K hit today? At a 3% discount rate, $2,500/year for ten years is only $22K in today's dollars. How much is driving a new car worth to you?
The other issue is the lack of a manual transmission on the current X3. If you're determined to get a manual SUV, then you're leaving BMW. BMW no longer offers a manual-transmission, all-wheel-drive vehicle in the USA.

Good luck!
-James

Want the Thrill 01-22-2013 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x3brian (Post 7329651)
A well maintained x3 will last a very long time:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=291640

One super commuter got 208k trouble free miles out of his 05 (his reports above). I have 109k on my 09 and it has been trouble free.

With your cars age the known maintenance areas are:

1) vanos hoses and o rings
2) valve cover gasket leaking
3) ccv
4) oil filter housing gasket
5) battery
6) new shocks and struts

Outside of those just routine maintenance is required...fluids, spark plugs, filters, and o2 sensors.

If you are up to date then you have nothing to worry about being stranded on a long trip.

Where I side with your husband on though is that you have to be willing to accept with an aging car non drivability things are going to break (ie window regulators, leaking vapor barriers, sun roof cassettes, cup holders etc). If your are fine with that....in the long run it will be cheaper to keep an aging paid off car than making $400 a month payments on a new one. That way you can set aside the monthly car payments for repairs.

We will be here to help too..

As a side note though...the new f25 x3 has its share of problems:

Erratic shifting and hesitation

Rear hatch wiring issues

Ecu replacement as a result of losing dsc programming.

Various rattles and premature brake wear.

Those are the notes I have in my parents 01/12 build 2012 x3 with 6,000 miles.

Not all of the new generation X3's have the issues you have listed. The only two on your list that I have read about are the hesitation issue that can be fixed with a software update and some have reported a few rattles. Sounds like your parents have a bummer X3.

x3brian 01-22-2013 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Want the Thrill (Post 7330551)
Not all of the new generation X3's have the issues you have listed. The only two on your list that I have read about are the hesitation issue that can be fixed with a software update and some have reported a few rattles. Sounds like your parents have a bummer X3.

The tranny software update helps, but the lag is still there.

The chassis error that required the new DME is this (that fixed the problem...I explained it incorrectly):

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=655863

The hatch issue that required new wiring is this:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=590146

On the brakes your right, I only found one similar post but the guy never replied back with the fix.

Want the Thrill 01-22-2013 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x3brian (Post 7330614)
The tranny software update helps, but the lag is still there.

The chassis error that required the new DME is this (that fixed the problem...I explained it incorrectly):

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=655863

The hatch issue that required new wiring is this:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=590146

On the brakes your right, I only found one similar post but the guy never replied back with the fix.

Ok, got it. I remember reading about the trunk hatch opening and a few people having the button replaced on the tailgate, but when you referred to it as a wiring issue, it didn't ring a bell with me. That's a shame your parents have to deal with all these issues on a new vehicle. I'd be pissed. Mine has been in once for the window regulator recall on the passenger side and an oil change. Fingers crossed it will stay that way!

jdauria 01-23-2013 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x3brian (Post 7329651)
A well maintained x3 will last a very long time:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=291640

One super commuter got 208k trouble free miles out of his 05 (his reports above). I have 109k on my 09 and it has been trouble free.

With your cars age the known maintenance areas are:

1) vanos hoses and o rings
2) valve cover gasket leaking
3) ccv
4) oil filter housing gasket
5) battery
6) new shocks and struts

I really like this question and I think brian gives some good information on your current X3 and the new model. With the above maintence items he listed above, your looking at roughly $2k? But that should last you for another 50-100k miles in my opinion on the engine alone. You say your family is 5-6 hours away and you travel their a lot, highway miles are great for an engine, its the stop and go traffic that the engine dislikes. I've heard of M54 engines lasting into the high 200k miles or even higher.

If it were me, I would get a second car and keep the X3, if she (the x3) hasnt given you any real serious problems in the past why give it up? "If it aint broke, dont fix it" It's fully paid for right?

mchova01 01-29-2013 02:42 AM

You are happy with the X3, sans the sunroof functioning properly. It seems like you are looking at purchasing a new one for the sake of insurance.

My recommendation would be to keep it; however, put what would be your new monthly payment aside in a separate account for funding your next car when you become unhappy with it. Draw from this account when you need to repair the X3 or renting a car to get to your parents if you feel uncomfortable driving your X3 that far. After some duration, fix the sunroof. Close the account when you are no longer satisfied with the X3 and use the remaining funds towards to the purchase of the next car.

Iíve only been involved in two incidents in my life where unexpected mechanical failure didnít allow me to get to my destination: 1) heater coil failure in an older vehicle 2) Electrical issue with three month old vehicle.

I wouldnít justify a new car based on a child. Kids were born on the Oregon Trail, well before the advances of cellphones and 911. Kids are a lot tougher than we all think.

But if you want a new X3, thatís a different story and you should go for it.

UncleJ 01-29-2013 07:32 AM

Get a new car -- the old one is going to nickle and dime you from here on out. With a new car you will get a full warranty, better fuel mileage and more safety features. It will also smell better.:rofl: Yes it will cost you more, but it will be a NEW car and that is always nice to have. Remember your present car is depreciating more each day and once past 150K it starts to approach "donate to a worthy cause" material.:angel:

spokelizard 01-29-2013 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleJ (Post 7345499)
Remember your present car is depreciating more each day and once past 150K it starts to approach "donate to a worthy cause" material.:angel:

Hi Uncle J, sorry but I have to disagree here. One of the benefits of keeping a car a long time is that the depreciation curve comes close to being flat, and the car is judged and appraised on its condition alone, not its age. I expect to be spending at least $2K per year in repairs and maintenance when I get to 150K, probably more when you average in tires, batteries, clutch, cooling system, and suspension components. Still way less than the cost of leasing a new car every three years which is roughly equivalent to paying for the steep part of the depreciation curve. Even probably less than replacing a car every six years., which I think is roughly the sweet spot for replacement if you don't want to commit to keeping a long time.

Of course, in my case I can't really replace the car, since the MT is no longer offered. Which is one major reason I'm in it for the long haul.

iamthewalrus 01-29-2013 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spokelizard (Post 7345807)
Hi Uncle J, sorry but I have to disagree here. One of the benefits of keeping a car a long time is that the depreciation curve comes close to being flat, and the car is judged and appraised on its condition alone, not its age. I expect to be spending at least $2K per year in repairs and maintenance when I get to 150K, probably more when you average in tires, batteries, clutch, cooling system, and suspension components. Still way less than the cost of leasing a new car every three years which is roughly equivalent to paying for the steep part of the depreciation curve. Even probably less than replacing a car every six years., which I think is roughly the sweet spot for replacement if you don't want to commit to keeping a long time.

Of course, in my case I can't really replace the car, since the MT is no longer offered. Which is one major reason I'm in it for the long haul.

Agree on all fronts. The depreciation curve smooths out. It also makes the new car negotiation easier. When your old X3 is worth only $2K, what's $500 either way? Focus the negotiation on the new car price.
And I completely echo the thoughts about the manual transmission. Since BMW no longer offers a manual transmission AWD vehicle in the USA, I've got to keep my 2006 X3 indefinitely. When it goes, I'll likely switch to an Audi S4 or VW GTI (R?).

UncleJ 01-30-2013 06:41 AM

Wally and Spoke I am properly chastised.:eeps: You, of course, are right -- that depreciation does in fact flatten out. At some point it just stays the same -- and in the case of some cars -- actually starts back up (anyone tried to buy a '57 Chev convert recently?) but that takes years. My misguided direction was simply the attempt to point out that as a "trade in" the car reaches a point when it is no longer attractive to a dealer to take it in -- hence the reference to charity donation. I still believe that in the case of a new family with an infant the most dependable safest car is the one to have. While the older X3 is certainly safe, it will be subject to problems and require (expensive) repairs "down the road". Hence my suggestion that a new car (with all its attendant improvements) is a better solution than trying to hang on to the old one. Thank you both for pointing out my shortcomings. Mea Culpa!:angel:


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