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-   -   N20 tuning, new record (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=679148)

Jamesonsviggen 02-28-2013 09:26 AM

N20 tuning, new record
 
Per N54tech, this was announced today!

They are beta testing stage 2 for the N20 right now.

With no hardware modifications, just the tune running on E85 they cracked 300whp and 350lbs of torque
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1362022847

I am anxious to see the LOWER numbers coming soon on 93 octane as E85 is not around here much.

They also noted that the stock airbox is more than sufficient and intake manufacturers claims are likely fudged.

It will be interesting to see where this goes with meth, downpipes, full exhausts, intercoolers etc.

justinnum1 02-28-2013 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7410681)
Per N54tech, this was announced today!

They are beta testing stage 2 for the N20 right now.

With no hardware modifications, just the tune running on E85 they cracked 300whp and 350lbs of torque
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1362022847

I am anxious to see the LOWER numbers coming soon on 93 octane as E85 is not around here much.

They also noted that the stock airbox is more than sufficient and intake manufacturers claims are likely fudged.

It will be interesting to see where this goes with meth, downpipes, full exhausts, intercoolers etc.

wouldnt you get more power with 93 than 85?

Jamesonsviggen 02-28-2013 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1 (Post 7410743)
wouldnt you get more power with 93 than 85?

No, E85 is a much more energy rich fuel source which turbo engines seem to love.

I am hoping for 27o-275whp on 93 with stage 2, then 300whp with a couple of bolt ons.

FreddyG 02-28-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1 (Post 7410743)
wouldnt you get more power with 93 than 85?

E85 is similar to running 100-105 octane gasoline.

Gas mileage usually suffers while using alcohol based gasses (E85) because of the burn rate of alcohol, but if tuned correctly, you will make more power.

The car above was obviously tuned correctly. Nice job! :thumbup:

justinnum1 02-28-2013 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7410755)
No, E85 is a much more energy rich fuel source which turbo engines seem to love.

I am hoping for 27o-275whp on 93 with stage 2, then 300whp with a couple of bolt ons.

e85 is cheaper than 93 right? if it gives more power can we use it on stock engine?

mrMTB 02-28-2013 10:49 AM

e85 is not more energy-rich than 93 octane. In fact if you were to run the two side-by-side in naturally aspirated motors operating with similar parameters, the e85 setup would require about 30% more fuel, and would produce lower power. (Yes, tuning the e85 operating parameters separately would yield a bit more power than the 93 octane setup, but still with substantially more fuel.)

The benefit to e85 comes in the fact that it is very resistant to knock (FreddyG's comment is correct, in that it has an aparrant octane rating around 100); when used in a turbocharged (or supercharged) application, this allows you to run more boost and timing, which allows you to put more fuel into the cylinder, which results in greater torque and power.

mrMTB 02-28-2013 10:52 AM

Currently e85 production is subsidized by the US Federal Government to the tune of about $1 per gallon. In order to run it on your N55 you'd need a new tune (JB, AccessPort, etc) and possibly some minor upgrades to the fueling system. The numbers I've seen for an N55 running e85 are quite impressive (+150 lb/ft tq and +100 hp).

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinnum1 (Post 7410820)
e85 is cheaper than 93 right? if it gives more power can we use it on stock engine?


Jamesonsviggen 02-28-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrMTB (Post 7410894)
e85 is not more energy-rich than 93 octane. In fact if you were to run the two side-by-side in naturally aspirated motors operating with similar parameters, the e85 setup would require about 30% more fuel, and would produce lower power. (Yes, tuning the e85 operating parameters separately would yield a bit more power than the 93 octane setup, but still with substantially more fuel.)

The benefit to e85 comes in the fact that it is very resistant to knock (FreddyG's comment is correct, in that it has an aparrant octane rating around 100); when used in a turbocharged (or supercharged) application, this allows you to run more boost and timing, which allows you to put more fuel into the cylinder, which results in greater torque and power.

Sorry, you gave the more eloquent answer. I used energy rich just to explain more power, but yes, as you noted it comes at the expense of consumption.

My friend had an e85 tuned red turbo Evo 8. It was downright scary, ten second stock appearing street car. But he had local e85.

mrMTB 02-28-2013 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7410903)
My friend had an e85 tuned red turbo Evo 8. It was downright scary, ten second stock appearing street car. But he had local e85.

My prior car was an Evo X - 400 lb/ft of torque and 385 awhp with only a tune, upgraded injectors and fuel pump, and e85 on a Mustang dyno. :thumbup:

Jamesonsviggen 02-28-2013 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrMTB (Post 7411189)
My prior car was an Evo X - 400 lb/ft of torque and 385 awhp with only a tune, upgraded injectors and fuel pump, and e85 on a Mustang dyno. :thumbup:

Yeah, I think he was in the mid 4's on a Mustang.

It was a monster, trapping comfortably over 120.

But the quality stunk, clear coat on the carbon of the wing peeled, Brembos chipped and peeled, interior fell apart.

mrMTB 02-28-2013 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7411287)
But the quality stunk, clear coat on the carbon of the wing peeled, Brembos chipped and peeled, interior fell apart.

Yeah, the Evo has been described as a $15k car with a $20k power and drive train. I'm looking for another Evo to turn into a dedicated track car- I'm appreciating the improved interior space of the e89 perhaps too much to consider living in an Evo as my daily driver.

White05X3 03-01-2013 08:04 AM

I know that on the Evo you needed to change a bunch of parts in the fuel system to run E85. I wonder about the f30?

Jamesonsviggen 03-01-2013 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White05X3 (Post 7412738)
I know that on the Evo you needed to change a bunch of parts in the fuel system to run E85. I wonder about the f30?

Nope :bigpimp:

suneil 03-01-2013 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrMTB (Post 7411189)
My prior car was an Evo X - 400 lb/ft of torque and 385 awhp with only a tune, upgraded injectors and fuel pump, and e85 on a Mustang dyno. :thumbup:

Me too...i was putting down 330/350 with just cams, exhaust, FMIC - for an Evo VIII, was epic fast.

dtc100 03-01-2013 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7410681)
Per N54tech, this was announced today!

They are beta testing stage 2 for the N20 right now.

With no hardware modifications, just the tune running on E85 they cracked 300whp and 350lbs of torque
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/attach...1&d=1362022847

I am anxious to see the LOWER numbers coming soon on 93 octane as E85 is not around here much.

They also noted that the stock airbox is more than sufficient and intake manufacturers claims are likely fudged.

It will be interesting to see where this goes with meth, downpipes, full exhausts, intercoolers etc.

Over at the ATS sites a tuner reported higher gain with the 2.0 stage 1 tune, I recall 325hp and 330tq on E85, that was two months ago. Though different dynos have different readings, usually I only look at the before and after differences.

Jamesonsviggen 03-01-2013 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 7412936)
Over at the ATS sites a tuner reported higher gain with the 2.0 stage 1 tune, I recall 325hp and 330tq on E85, that was two months ago. Though different dynos have different readings, usually I only look at the before and after differences.

Considering the n20 dynos as much if not more stock than the ATS, if that is a bone stock hardware figure to the wheels, it sounds almost too good to be true...28whp more, but 20ft lbs less.

dtc100 03-01-2013 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7412949)
Considering the n20 dynos as much if not more stock than the ATS, if that is a bone stock hardware figure to the wheels, it sounds almost too good to be true...28whp more, but 20ft lbs less.

Bone stock. I think they are working on bolt ons to work on stage 2. There is also a feature called "smart octane" that will auto adjust for octane. It will run on 87 and gain 30 each for hp and tq.

Jamesonsviggen 03-01-2013 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 7412984)
Bone stock. I think they are working on bolt ons to work on stage 2. There is also a feature called "smart octane" that will auto adjust for octane. It will run on 87 and gain 30 each for hp and tq.

Sounds cool!

dtc100 03-01-2013 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7413007)
Sounds cool!

I am not sure if tunability has to do with how open the manufacture is with their ECU code. I know with the E90 N52, the German tuners who have greater access to BMW codes have a huge advantage over the US tuners. They could tune the N/A I6 to 290+ hp with all the bolt ons.

Jamesonsviggen 03-01-2013 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtc100 (Post 7413025)
I am not sure if tunability has to do with how open the manufacture is with their ECU code. I know with the E90 N52, the German tuners who have greater access to BMW codes have a huge advantage over the US tuners. They could tune the N/A I6 to 290+ hp with all the bolt ons.

The oems have made the cars harder and harder to crack over the past few years.

boltjaM3s 03-01-2013 10:25 AM

....and there goes the 335i for good.

BJ

Jamesonsviggen 03-01-2013 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s (Post 7413052)
....and there goes the 335i for good.

BJ

Lol, yes and noo.

Same tunes are out for the 335 which can net 360whp and 400+tq.

The 335 can always do more than the 328 mod for mod due to the larger displacement.

But it's clear, if BMW wanted to, they could offer a 328 with 335 power stock and warrantied.

If BMW takes the leash off the 335, then they can let the 328 open up to it's capabilities.

boltjaM3s 03-01-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen (Post 7413072)
Lol, yes and noo.

Same tunes are out for the 335 which can net 360whp and 400+tq.

The 335 can always do more than the 328 mod for mod due to the larger displacement.

But it's clear, if BMW wanted to, they could offer a 328 with 335 power stock and warrantied.

If BMW takes the leash off the 335, then they can let the 328 open up to it's capabilities.

The 328i and 335i both sit on a suspension that maxes out at 300HP.

Since both the 328i and the 335i both now have 300HP, the lighter and better balanced car wins.

It's a 328i world. You are an early adopter, ahead of the curve, you are.

BJ

dtc100 03-01-2013 10:57 AM

One thing I wish BMW do is lowering the price of their performance suspension cost of $6,500. It lowers the car by 20mm, 10mm more than sport and M sport suspensions.

To put it in perspective, Porsche offers similar suspension upgrades on the 911, the first tier lowers the body by 10mm at a little over $2k, the second tier lowers the body by 20mm for a little under $3k. Not only that, the lowered suspensions also come with PASM included, similar to (but more advanced than) the BMW DHP. BMW charges $1k for DHP separately unless you order a base model with DHP only, which gets 10mm lowered body also.

Jamesonsviggen 03-01-2013 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s (Post 7413129)
The 328i and 335i both sit on a suspension that maxes out at 300HP.

Since both the 328i and the 335i both now have 300HP, the lighter and better balanced car wins.

It's a 328i world. You are an early adopter, ahead of the curve, you are.

BJ

Well yeah, 350-400-500hp just highlights the softer suspension. Upgrading creates a snowball affect.

300-350hp in the 328 with proper tires, 335 bigger brakes, and bigger sway bars and stiffer springs and struts...pretty damn ideal. That's going to be my setup.

It won't sound the same as the 335, but it will have 150lbs less on the nose. Everything has it's compromises.

I am just looking forward to taking this car where I have it in my mind.


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