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-   -   Poll: E39 Performance Caliper Upgrade (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=683183)

Albo 03-18-2013 09:51 PM

Poll: E39 Performance Caliper Upgrade
 
This one item has bothered me for some time. I know there are a lot of people that are perfectly happy with the performance of the OEM brakes on their E39's, but I do believe there is performance to be gained over the OEM single piston setup.

I'm hoping I don't have to rehash the benefits of a multi-piston caliper, but in short:

* Lighter Weight
* Less Heat Retention
* Greater Fade Resistance
* Uniform clamping force

Of course, the limiting factor is always price. We often have to buy a kit that includes new (though larger) rotors, brake lines, brackets, etc. I would love to have the option to just upgrade the calipers to offer a reasonable upgrade in performance.

As an automotive "enthusiast", I know that it's often times more economical to purchase a pre-built kit and not always beneficial to "upgrade" components that "work", but I cannot abide.

To that end...I've began discussions with a vendor that is a supporter of this forum to begin an R&D project.

The goals are simple:

a) Discern what manufactured calipers to use (e.g. Willwood,etc.)

b) Manufacture the appropriate brackets to adapt said calipers.


This post is meant to be a discussion on the topic as well as a poll to see how many enthusiasts would be interested in this upgrade.

All comments are welcome, but please keep things on topic.

Dragan 03-19-2013 06:12 AM

Are we talking like monoblock 4-piston calipers up front? If so, you forgot to mention that they drastically improve the aesthetics of the vehicle.

doru 03-19-2013 06:59 AM

Your car brakes fine with OEM setup. Unless you drag race the car, you don't need 2,000+ $ brakes.
ECS had a good promotion on big brakes kit a little while ago, if you still want to change the brakes.
But all you will accomplish is aesthetics only. And higher price of rotors & pads when you will have to replace them.

You will gain "0" performance for a DD.

demas 03-19-2013 07:58 AM

apart from the excitement of this project and possible improved looks, the performance upgrade on the street would be negligible.

Additionally the 530 uses the largest brakes out of the I6's and is more than adequate for daily use.



but all this you know already. ;)

Fir3n5m0ke 03-19-2013 08:07 AM

I guess I'm one of the few but I would definitely appreciate some bigger brakes on this car. While the OEM brakes seem to work just fine, I would love to have some bigger brakes to make it feel more comfortable slowing/stopping at high speeds.

Take a newer 335i. The front calipers/pads seem almost twice the size of the ones on my car and the car is without a doubt a lighter car. The large calipers/pads come on sport model 335i I believe.

uncmozo 03-19-2013 08:10 AM

Albo-

You haven't mentioned the problems you're having with your OEM setup. Are you looking for shorter braking distance at high speeds, less heat build-up, etc.? Forget the looks for a minute. Mechanically, what are you looking to improve preformance-wise?

Just curious.

Jerry

bluebee 03-19-2013 09:46 AM

With my backlog of deferred maintenance on my bimmer, I am in awe of those who have everything fixed up to date, and they then can contemplate performance upgrades!

I wish I was more like you!

Albo 03-19-2013 11:58 AM

There is nothing inherently "wrong" with the OEM setup. It works fine when in good repair, but once you've experienced higher performance vehicles with higher performing brakes (yes...monoblock-type setups with 4 or 6 or 8 pistons) then you realize how limited these brakes really are. Any significant increase in power brings you closer to the threshold of that limit. I know I don't drive a 500hp beast, but there is absolutley nothing wrong with taking each area of our "Sport Sedans" to their zenith.

My goal has always been to maintain my cars to the utmost and when possible improve the function (and form) as I see fit.

There are brackets widely available for E36's and E46's that enable owners to adapt a wide array of mulit-piston calipers to suit there needs. I want the ability to do the same.


Something like this:

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/BMW-E36-M3-Po...c8w~~60_35.JPG

doru 03-19-2013 12:25 PM

Then do it right. Check:
Big brake kit #1 (BMW OEM setup)
Big brake kit #2 (BMW OEM setup)

Albo 03-19-2013 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doru (Post 7455408)
Then do it right. Check:
Big brake kit #1 (BMW OEM setup)
Big brake kit #2 (BMW OEM setup)

I'd like to see if we can beat that price point... And upgrade the rear calipers, too.

DJ63 03-19-2013 02:53 PM

Because of an unfortunate string of events at my workplace resulting in a Federal trial and alot of spare time on my hands, I recently drove several thousand miles in my 540, at the end of which I realized I had driven the last segment with a frozen caliper L front. Yes, I pulled the trigger on the ECS BBK deal {what the hell else would a E39 guy do, huh? I was Powerless, I`m tellin ya!!!}
Anyways, aesthetics, :thumbup::thumbup Performance difference for street, like others here say:rolleyes:

DJ63 03-19-2013 03:22 PM

BTW, if anyone out there gets the BMW BBK kit, be prepared; it comes mounted with the bracket for the 1 and 3 series that has to be removed. the 10mm Hex bolts were a bitch; 2 guys holding the caliper and 1 on the wrench with a cheater pipe, they were in there.

Albo 03-19-2013 04:06 PM

Something akin to this on the front (though I would likely want a less expensive option):

http://www.lpiracing.com/catalog/140...246_detail.jpg

Andreas540i 03-20-2013 06:36 AM

I would worry about the adapter for the calipers being strong enough. If you can beet the $1000 mark I think you would find plenty of interest.

DJ63 03-20-2013 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas540i (Post 7457287)
I would worry about the adapter for the calipers being strong enough. If you can beet the $1000 mark I think you would find plenty of interest.

The stock bracket is just a piece of cast iron, nothing special.

carlova78 03-20-2013 07:07 AM

M5 brake upgrade.

NoWayJose 03-20-2013 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas540i (Post 7457287)
I would worry about the adapter for the calipers being strong enough. If you can beet the $1000 mark I think you would find plenty of interest.

+1 :thumbup:

Albo 03-20-2013 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlova78 (Post 7457345)
M5 brake upgrade.

That does virtually nothing to address the "pluses" highlighted in my original post. The M5 system, while still effective , is just a bigger version of the OEM system.

If I'm going to updgrade the suspension, engine and interior, then I sure as **** want to get the best out of my brakes.

BTW...brakes that are "adequate" at 230hp are less so at 330hp (supercharger) and, if that LSX Swap ever happens, even less so at 400,500 or 600 hp (Maybe I'm day-dreaming there).

Like I said...Similar options exist for E36's and E46's. I just want the same option for the E39.

Albo 03-20-2013 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas540i (Post 7457287)
I would worry about the adapter for the calipers being strong enough. If you can beet the $1000 mark I think you would find plenty of interest.

When we get to that point we'll address it. I'm sure they won't be cobbled together with scrap metal or tin foil.

The company I'm trying to entice into the propisition is a known commodity on this forum. I've got samples of there work on my car and waiting to go on as well. they have my confidence.

Albo 03-20-2013 04:47 PM

Bump.. 360 views, but only 15 votes. Give me a brake!

filon102 03-20-2013 06:08 PM

If its under 1000 bux... i would be interested. But I would not be surprised if you actually lost interest in this project and went with ECS tuning kit. Its ridiculous for any aftermarket set up your trying to do to these cars without shelling out TONS of money. My radiator took a crap the other day (10 years of service, not bad) and i was thinking of going with aluminum set up. 600 bux + shipping? Not going to happen, while for my buddy's car, eagle talon, he payed 130 some bux for all aluminum radiator shipped to his door. I just went with Nissen radiator (120 bux) cause its not worth shelling out that kind of money...

Keep us posted!

occhis 03-20-2013 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albo (Post 7457743)
That does virtually nothing to address the "pluses" highlighted in my original post. The M5 system, while still effective , is just a bigger version of the OEM system.

If I'm going to updgrade the suspension, engine and interior, then I sure as **** want to get the best out of my brakes.

BTW...brakes that are "adequate" at 230hp are less so at 330hp (supercharger) and, if that LSX Swap ever happens, even less so at 400,500 or 600 hp (Maybe I'm day-dreaming there).

Like I said...Similar options exist for E36's and E46's. I just want the same option for the E39.

I am not debating the benefits of such an upgrade, but I question the relationship between hp and braking ability. It's a mass (weight) to speed ratio that determines the efficiency of the braking system. If one wants to stop a 4000 lb car going 100 mph, it doesn't matter how fast you arrived at 100 mph.

Albo 03-20-2013 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by occhis (Post 7459295)
I am not debating the benefits of such an upgrade, but I question the relationship between hp and braking ability. It's a mass (weight) to speed ratio that determines the efficiency of the braking system. If one wants to stop a 4000 lb car going 100 mph, it doesn't matter how fast you arrived at 100 mph.

The relationship is not directly with horsepower, but better brakes can always help get a driver out of trouble because of it. Of course...it doesn't hurt to learn how to drive, either.

occhis 03-20-2013 08:14 PM

I'll keep track of this thread, as I'm sure you will find a solution at a reasonable price point.

occhis 03-20-2013 08:15 PM

Just for the record, I'm wearing my "I Voted" lapel sticker.


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