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-   -   Oil Change (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84408)

Burakfb 01-16-2005 12:39 AM

Oil Change
 
Hi guys
Before everyone gets mad, yes i did do my homework and searched the forum, but now, i'm even more confused that ever before.
So here is deal, i have a 325i, bought a couple of months ago, and i have around 6500 miles on it. I got kinda worried today realizing thats twice the 3000 mile interval so i decided to ask for your oppinion on what i should do.
I'm no mechanic, and do not have the tools to do my own oil change.
So here is deal.
Some guys say that after after 7000 miles you should change your oil, some say 3000 miles, and other say that its fine with sythetic oil and you can wait till the 14000 mile limit(i think its 14000)
Most people do it for the peace of mind, which i think that is the sole reason that i'm doing it for.
For the gist of it, i want to change my oil! Should I? Would be the first question!
And where do i change it? I'm sure jiffy lube or midas is not the answer! should i take it to the dealer? i'm preety sure they wont do it for free, the free maintance plan is a marketing thing!
So i'm a little lost on what to do and how to do it!
I would apriciate any help!
Ooo and one last thing, that break in period that you guys talk about on new cars! I never did that, went over 3000 rpms even touched 6000 at maybe 50 miles on the car!
am i screwed?
Thanx
Burak

MMME30W 01-16-2005 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burakfb
Hi guys
Before everyone gets mad, yes i did do my homework and searched the forum, but now, i'm even more confused that ever before.
So here is deal, i have a 325i, bought a couple of months ago, and i have around 6500 miles on it. I got kinda worried today realizing thats twice the 3000 mile interval so i decided to ask for your oppinion on what i should do.
I'm no mechanic, and do not have the tools to do my own oil change.
So here is deal.
Some guys say that after after 7000 miles you should change your oil, some say 3000 miles, and other say that its fine with sythetic oil and you can wait till the 14000 mile limit(i think its 14000)
Most people do it for the peace of mind, which i think that is the sole reason that i'm doing it for.
For the gist of it, i want to change my oil! Should I? Would be the first question!
And where do i change it? I'm sure jiffy lube or midas is not the answer! should i take it to the dealer? i'm preety sure they wont do it for free, the free maintance plan is a marketing thing!
So i'm a little lost on what to do and how to do it!
I would apriciate any help!
Ooo and one last thing, that break in period that you guys talk about on new cars! I never did that, went over 3000 rpms even touched 6000 at maybe 50 miles on the car!
am i screwed?
Thanx
Burak

:hi: and welcome to the fest.

Well, this is an internet forum so am not sure whether the opinions you will find are any better than "the guys", unless maybe if the "the guys" are the Williams F1 pit crew.

Best place to look for reliable guidance is in the owner's manual. If you do not have an owners manual you can get one through bmwusa.com by registering your car; they have downloadable pdf files.

I assume you bought your 325i new i.e. an 04 or 05 model? If so, the car will compute the service interval. Routine 3000 miles changes are a thing of the past as far as OEMs are concerned. On my car ('03 330i) the initial service interval is going to take place at 14,000 miles or so. Being anal I decided to 1/2 this interval and changed the oil at about 7,500 miles. I use a Mity-vac oil sucker and bought the BMW OEM oil and filter at the dealership with the BMW CCA discount. Do a search on Mity-vac or Mityvac and you will see threads on the procedure, its very easy and you can do it in your tuxedo (just kidding, but its very easy.)

I would not use Jiffy or Midas but thats just me. The dealer will b e happy to change the oil for you, for a fee of course.

Re: the break-in, I suspect you are probably ok. Unless you see blue smoke from the exhaust that is :)

mwette 01-16-2005 07:10 AM

I did the same as wingspan. I spent $50 on the mityvac, $5 on the socket at Sears; then I buy filters and oil from the local BMW dealer and change every 6000 miles or so. The mityvac is easy and clean and the whole oil change takes < 1 hour.

jnx 01-16-2005 07:30 AM

I would change oil now, just for my own piece of mind, It's not going to hurt anything. If you do it yourself, or have it done, it's just cheap insurance in the long run.

numbersguy 01-16-2005 09:46 AM

The oil is probably good until the first service. The oil filter will probably be trashed well before then. Get both changed out now, get the first service when it comes due and you can forget about oil change intervals until about 20K miiles or so.

Ace 01-16-2005 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burakfb
Hi guys
Before everyone gets mad, yes i did do my homework and searched the forum, but now, i'm even more confused that ever before.
So here is deal, i have a 325i, bought a couple of months ago, and i have around 6500 miles on it. I got kinda worried today realizing thats twice the 3000 mile interval so i decided to ask for your oppinion on what i should do.
I'm no mechanic, and do not have the tools to do my own oil change.
So here is deal.
Some guys say that after after 7000 miles you should change your oil, some say 3000 miles, and other say that its fine with sythetic oil and you can wait till the 14000 mile limit(i think its 14000)
Most people do it for the peace of mind, which i think that is the sole reason that i'm doing it for.
For the gist of it, i want to change my oil! Should I? Would be the first question!
And where do i change it? I'm sure jiffy lube or midas is not the answer! should i take it to the dealer? i'm preety sure they wont do it for free, the free maintance plan is a marketing thing!
So i'm a little lost on what to do and how to do it!
I would apriciate any help!
Ooo and one last thing, that break in period that you guys talk about on new cars! I never did that, went over 3000 rpms even touched 6000 at maybe 50 miles on the car!
am i screwed?
Thanx
Burak

most people i know change their oil at around 7500mile intervals...i do it just because i do not believe the 15000mi. claimed by bmw. as far as the 3000mi changes, from what i know 3000mi. intervals were for regular oil and some people do a 3000mi. change when they first get the car, but then swtich to 7500mi. after that. i think that changing the oil at 7500mi intervals will be fine, unless you autocross and then you may need to do it more often.

as far as doing it yourself...it's very easy so don't be nervous about it. just need to buy some of the tools first which shouldn't be that expensive (will be cheaper than paying the dealer to do it). as many other people have stated the mityvac is a great tool, but research it somemore as there is some debate as to how it deals with the sediment...i'm sure that most people feel it's fine, but i prefer to change the oil the conventional gravity drain method...but you might need some ramps or jack stands for this. good luck!!! and welcome!

Burakfb 01-16-2005 02:22 PM

Thanks a lot guys for helping out, i greatly apriciate the help and your hospitality.
:)
Thanks for making me feel welcome!

As for all your advices, trust me i'm going to put good used for them tommorow, when i do my own oil change in my tuxedo :)!
Hope i don't screw up!
I'm heading down to sears rite know to pick up one of those mityvac thingies. Going to get a filter from my dealer, and what kind of oil would you guys reccomend?
Any specific brands!?
Ohhh, and i'm glad that i not following the rule in the break in period won't cause me troube, and i don't think i saw any blue smoke from my exhaust!

I really apriciate the help guys
Thanks
Burak

rumratt 01-16-2005 02:26 PM

Mobile 1 or BMW oil (both synthetic) seem to be most common. I use the BMW oil while it's under warranty to avoid any dumb "you used the wrong oil" arguments from the dealer. I recently bought 2 cases. With the BMWCCA discount it was $3.20/quart. Not bad.

MMME30W 01-16-2005 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burakfb
Thanks a lot guys for helping out, i greatly apriciate the help and your hospitality.
:)
Thanks for making me feel welcome!

As for all your advices, trust me i'm going to put good used for them tommorow, when i do my own oil change in my tuxedo :)!
Hope i don't screw up!
I'm heading down to sears rite know to pick up one of those mityvac thingies. Going to get a filter from my dealer, and what kind of oil would you guys reccomend?
Any specific brands!?
Ohhh, and i'm glad that i not following the rule in the break in period won't cause me troube, and i don't think i saw any blue smoke from my exhaust!

I really apriciate the help guys
Thanks
Burak

Not at all...I find this a pretty friendly place to hang out.

Here is a link to the post when I did mine:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...4&postcount=10

I also buy BMW OEM oil for the same reason as rumratt.

Good luck...

operknockity 01-16-2005 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumratt
Mobile 1 or BMW oil (both synthetic) seem to be most common. I use the BMW oil while it's under warranty to avoid any dumb "you used the wrong oil" arguments from the dealer. I recently bought 2 cases. With the BMWCCA discount it was $3.20/quart. Not bad.

Note that only Mobil 1 0W40 meets BMW oil specifications, so using the other grades can be problematic at best. If in doubt, just use the BMW branded stuff.

BTW, its Mobil, not Mobile (which is a city in Alabama). :tsk: :rolleyes: :confused:

SLO Town 01-16-2005 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by operknockity
Note that only Mobil 1 0W40 meets BMW oil specifications, so using the other grades can be problematic at best. If in doubt, just use the BMW branded stuff.

BTW, its Mobil, not Mobile (which is a city in Alabama). :tsk: :rolleyes: :confused:

That is incorrect. The "Service and Warranty Information" booklet for my 2003 330Ci says that "Mobil 1 5w-30 and 5w-40 oils are strongly recommened and approved by BMW for the 325 and 330 models." This is stated on page 4.

Even though I use 0w-40, there is nowhere in the manual that says this is an approved viscosity. Mobil 1 0w-40 says it meets BMW LL-01 specs, but beyond that there is no mention in any of my BMW factory literature that says and brand of 0w-40 is approved. In fact, my factory literature says that Mobil 1 is the only other oil approved by BMW besides the "official" BMW synthetic.

I've heard the BMW Owners Circle has an updated list of approved oils. I checked that once several months ago and remember seeing Valvoline 5w-30 as being approved also. However, I have never been able to navigate to that approved list since. I wonder if BMW removed it for some reason.

SLO Town

operknockity 01-16-2005 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO Town
That is incorrect. The "Service and Warranty Information" booklet for my 2003 330Ci says that "Mobil 1 5w-30 and 5w-40 oils are strongly recommened and approved by BMW for the 325 and 330 models." This is stated on page 4.

Hmmmm. More knowledgeable folks than I will have to weigh in on that.

rumratt 01-16-2005 08:34 PM

The BMW oil is 5W-30. :dunno:

robj213 01-16-2005 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumratt
The BMW oil is 5W-30. :dunno:

That's what they pour into my car when I take it to the dealer and charge me $100 per oil change.

operknockity 01-16-2005 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumratt
The BMW oil is 5W-30. :dunno:

Yup. Non-M's get 5W30 synthetic. Prolly made by Castrol.

M's get 10W60 synthetic.

F1Crazy 01-16-2005 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO Town
That is incorrect. The "Service and Warranty Information" booklet for my 2003 330Ci says that "Mobil 1 5w-30 and 5w-40 oils are strongly recommened and approved by BMW for the 325 and 330 models." This is stated on page 4.

Even though I use 0w-40, there is nowhere in the manual that says this is an approved viscosity. Mobil 1 0w-40 says it meets BMW LL-01 specs, but beyond that there is no mention in any of my BMW factory literature that says and brand of 0w-40 is approved. In fact, my factory literature says that Mobil 1 is the only other oil approved by BMW besides the "official" BMW synthetic.

I've heard the BMW Owners Circle has an updated list of approved oils. I checked that once several months ago and remember seeing Valvoline 5w-30 as being approved also. However, I have never been able to navigate to that approved list since. I wonder if BMW removed it for some reason.

SLO Town

I think the only source of information that we can trust on this mater is BMW TIS. I posted a list of approved oils taken from BMW TIS in this thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...+approved+oils

SLO Town 01-17-2005 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Crazy
I think the only source of information that we can trust on this mater is BMW TIS. I posted a list of approved oils taken from BMW TIS in this thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...+approved+oils

That was an interesting thread, but the official factory BMW documentation is what I'd put my faith in. As I said,t he thread you refer to was quite informative, it's just that there was no DIRECT official statement in there from BMW.

Frankly, I think all this approved oil discussion is nearly worthless. BMW approved or not, virtually all of today's modern synthetic oils are more than adequate. How many other manufacturers do you know that specify not only oil viscosity, but the brand you're supposed to use? Not many. I think BMW's position is simply one of being somewhat warranty unfriendly.

The most important thing in your oil choice is viscosity. I'm not saying to do this, but I'll bet any quality synthetic in a 5w-30, 10w-30, 0w40, or 5w-40 would not cause any problems. Most certainly you wouldn't want to run a 10w-30 or 5w-40 in the dead of winter in a cold climate, but that oil would probably be a good choice in mild climates where cold starts are not an issue. I've read that some members of the forum and others use 5w-50 or 15w-50, and I think that would be a mistake (as would 0w-20 or 0w-30).

FWIW, in all my new cars I'll always do a 750 mile first oil change, then change again at 3,000 and 6,000 - using "factory approved" oil. At that point, I think the motor has proven itself as being defect free and from then on I use the brand of my choice, so long as the viscosity is in the range of what the manufacturer recommends.

In fact, on my 2003 330Ci is was using Redline 5w-40. I chose 5w-40 because it is an approved viscosity, and where I live it seldom gets below 45 degrees, even on the coldest winter nights (plus my car is garaged). If I lived in a cold weather climate I would use 5w-30.

I just switched back to Mobil 1 from Redline. While Redline is IMO a superior product, it's hard to find and the place I normally order it from had the 5w-40 on backorder for over a month. So I changed back to Mobil 1 from the convenience standpoint and will use it from now on.

Not to insult anyone, but if someone doesn't believe my claim about the oil recommendations in the BMW Service and Warranty booklet, let me know an I'll scan page 4 for you.

Cheers,

SLO Town

PS Sorry, gotta do this. But my oil's going to get hot today. Supposed to be in the mid 70s. Absolutely gorgeous! Going for a bike ride first.

Burakfb 01-17-2005 09:30 AM

I apriciate all your help guys
i did my oil change today, first time in my life i'm chaning my oil ironicly its on a BMW, and it went perfect!
I was scared out of my @ss, but phew its over!
Went and got my oil and oil filter from my dealer.
extracted the oil, put the new one in, the filter, yada yada yada
and wow.
the peace of mind that i have is inexpicable!

i apriciate all the help again
thank you
burak

johnnygraphic 01-17-2005 09:56 AM

Not to derail this too much, but, what is your guy's take on manual tranny change? Some people say to do it very early (5k miles?) due to any 'grinding' in the manual transmission from a new driver (Yes, I've done it a few times...).

Johnny

markl53 01-17-2005 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLO Town
...FWIW, in all my new cars I'll always do a 750 mile first oil change, then change again at 3,000 and 6,000 - using "factory approved" oil. At that point, I think the motor has proven itself as being defect free and from then on I use the brand of my choice, so long as the viscosity is in the range of what the manufacturer recommends.

I'm not sure this is accurate, but I had a '99 VW Passat and I'm pretty sure it was on that forum where I read that VW (and perhaps some other manufacturers) use a special break-in oil from the factory. They actually want you to leave it in for the full change cycle. I remember the VW used 5K mile oil change intervals, and everyone was talking about the "US paranoia" of 3K intervals. VW specifically did not recommend changing the oil sooner. Don't know if BMW, MB, etc also use special factory version oils. At this point I'm planning my initial oil change at 7500 miles (currently only have 700 :) )

sunilsf 01-17-2005 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnygraphic
Not to derail this too much, but, what is your guy's take on manual tranny change? Some people say to do it very early (5k miles?) due to any 'grinding' in the manual transmission from a new driver (Yes, I've done it a few times...).

Johnny


There's an article in one of the magazines this month saying to change differential and (manual) transmission fluid every 30K miles. BMW recommends changing these every 60K miles.

JonathanIT 01-17-2005 11:39 AM

I have a similar question on the same topic... my 330cic is almost a year old (January 22), and I have scheduled an annual service with my dealer. I drive very few miles on my car, it just turned 3800 miles yesterday (75F outside and crystal clear over the weekend :)).

The "miles to service" indicator when I start still says over 10,000 miles to go... but I have no intention of waiting over two more years to get the oil changed! I know that BMW allows servicing at annual intervals instead of the mileage interval, which is why I scheduled the appointment. But I have heard some discussion on the boards before about an "oil change" vs. an "oil service." What is the difference? What will they do on my car after 1 year but low mileage? Can I request one over the other? Should I?

Thanks!

--J.

F1Crazy 01-17-2005 12:41 PM

SLO Town, we've had the numerous oil discussions on this forum so I'm gonna make it short. The part of your owners manual about oil was written in 1999 when BMW started selling E46s. At that time there was no other oil on the US market that would meet BMW specs other than their own, hence the recommendation of the widely available and popular Mobil1 or Valvoline, the official supplier for BMW at the time.

As far as all synthetic oils being adequate it all depends on driving conditions. You can put mineral oil in and it won't destroy your engine as long as you change it frequently and don't put any stress on the engine. The major part of the BMW specification is that the oil has to be suited for extended intervals, the spec itself is based on ACEA A3/B3 specs. Approved oils are simply more robust, with higher High Temperature/High Shear viscosity numbers and additive package better suited to fight acid build up.

Quote:

The most important thing in your oil choice is viscosity. I'm not saying to do this, but I'll bet any quality synthetic in a 5w-30, 10w-30, 0w40, or 5w-40 would not cause any problems. Most certainly you wouldn't want to run a 10w-30 or 5w-40 in the dead of winter in a cold climate, but that oil would probably be a good choice in mild climates where cold starts are not an issue. I've read that some members of the forum and others use 5w-50 or 15w-50, and I think that would be a mistake (as would 0w-20 or 0w-30).
I think you don't have a clear understanding of oil viscosity or SAE numbers for multi-grade oils. How running a 5W-30 oil in a dead of winter in a cold climate is different from running 5W-40? Both have the same Winter number (5) which means they will both behave like 5W oil at cold temperatures. Also, please explain to me why is it a mistake to run 0W-30 oil? I did it with an oil that met BMW LL-01 specs and have oil analysis to prove that it did very well.

BMW doesn't use special break-in oils but the cars that are shipped here from Germany are filled with a better oil than what we can buy here, I'd leave it for at least initial break-in period.

SLO Town 01-17-2005 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Crazy
SLO Town, we've had the numerous oil discussions on this forum so I'm gonna make it short. The part of your owners manual about oil was written in 1999 when BMW started selling E46s. At that time there was no other oil on the US market that would meet BMW specs other than their own, hence the recommendation of the widely available and popular Mobil1 or Valvoline, the official supplier for BMW at the time.

As far as all synthetic oils being adequate it all depends on driving conditions. You can put mineral oil in and it won't destroy your engine as long as you change it frequently and don't put any stress on the engine. The major part of the BMW specification is that the oil has to be suited for extended intervals, the spec itself is based on ACEA A3/B3 specs. Approved oils are simply more robust, with higher High Temperature/High Shear viscosity numbers and additive package better suited to fight acid build up.



I think you don't have a clear understanding of oil viscosity or SAE numbers for multi-grade oils. How running a 5W-30 oil in a dead of winter in a cold climate is different from running 5W-40? Both have the same Winter number (5) which means they will both behave like 5W oil at cold temperatures. Also, please explain to me why is it a mistake to run 0W-30 oil? I did it with an oil that met BMW LL-01 specs and have oil analysis to prove that it did very well.

BMW doesn't use special break-in oils but the cars that are shipped here from Germany are filled with a better oil than what we can buy here, I'd leave it for at least initial break-in period.

Easy now. No need to get huffy and accuse me of not understanding various lubrication related bits.

First, the Service and Warranty booklet I refer to has a print date of September 2002, and the throughput the test mentions the 2003 model year. To say this booklet is based in 1999 info would not appear to be correct.

I have been on this forum, as well as Roadfly and E46 Fanatics, and am fully aware of the many discussions there have been on engine oil, brake pads (or as some would say "break" pads), etc.

The context of my answer, and the usual context of many people who ask engine oil related questions is, "what oil can I use that will not void my warranty". That was the context of my answer. I agree with you that one's choices of suitable oil is much larger than BMW would like you to believe.

Don't tell me I don't understand viscosity and what "5w" means. I am fully aware of the meaning. However, in my reply I wasn't interested in writing a book on oil viscosity, etc. Kind of like what you said when you said you wanted "to keep it short".

In your threads you keep mentioning the ACEA A3/B3 specs. Where does BMW say that is a requirement? If you read official BMW documentation carefully, the only spec they mention is that the oil be a 5w-30 or 5w-40 and be SJ rated.

You've done alot of surfing and researching, and I think that's great.

My only complaints are that you are stating certain things as being official BMW statements (e.g the ACEA ratings). Once again, BMW makes no mention of ACEA ratings. Secondly, you assume people who have slightly different opinion than you don't know what they're talking about.

I'm and old guy and have been around alot longer that you might think. I've owned, driven, and worked on everything from 1200cc VW motors to V12s (try putting a clutch in a V12 E-type - been there, done that - patience is virtue).

I've also been intimately involved with SCCA racing and have crewed for a multi-time West Coast Regional Champion, that very car qualifying on the front row at the invitation only National Championships in Atlanta.

But wait, I was the chassis guy and dinked around with spring rates, shock valving, roll centers, camber, toe, tire temps, weight transfer, etc. Upon further consideration, you're right. I was just a chassis guy and didn't know what I was talking about when I wrote about engine oil. What was I thinking? Please accept my apologies.

SLO Town

JonathanIT 01-17-2005 10:44 PM

: popcorn: Reply? This should be fun .... :D

--J.


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