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-   -   New Product from TMS - E46 Rear Subframe Reinforcement Kit (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84526)

TurnerMS 01-17-2005 10:16 AM

New Product from TMS - E46 Rear Subframe Reinforcement Kit
 
This product is now finished and in stock.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=TDR4675412

Doug
TMS

Gabe 01-17-2005 10:23 AM

If I were buying and not leasing I would definitely pick this up.

Seems like a great price, assuming it does what it is supposed to.

Gabe 01-17-2005 10:42 AM

I am no welder either, but I have friends who are quite handy. :thumbup:

Elwood 01-17-2005 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumratt
If it were just a matter of buying the kit, the price is peanuts. It's getting it installed that is the PITA.

Welding is not one of my areas of expertise.

That's a ton of work.

TurnerMS 01-17-2005 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwood
That's a ton of work.

Yes, a considerable amount of labor. Typically 8-10 hours depending on damage. The alternative you ask? Replace the entire rear floorpan with a factory body panel, pay a body shop to rip out the entire rear of the floor and replace with new and then paint it. That is at least double the time, not to mention the price of the parts from BMW. If you do that, we still recommend you install this kit to prevent it from happening again.

We weighed the options for a while and we have found that this is the right way to fix it. We have seen a lot of these cars lately with subframe mounting completely ripped out. The car we used for the photos for example, it was a customer's car, 100% street driven, 100,000 miles, the car never saw one day on the track. We have used this kit on a half dozen cars so far.

The lowest mileage car we have seen with this issue had 60,000 miles. However, we have seen some E46's with 200,000 miles on them with zero issues. :dunno:

Doug

(Edited for spelling)

JonM 01-17-2005 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugmar
This product is now finished and in stock.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=TDR4675412

Doug
TMS

Doug,

Have you seen any of the Z-series cars failure modes?

TurnerMS 01-17-2005 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumratt
Any word on the rumors that the tearing is caused mostly due to a bad batch of sheet metal? There have been almost no reported cases on 2002+ vehicles (or is it 2001+). Of course, they are newer, so they've had less time to wear out.

Based on our customer data, this is accurate. The six cars we have done in house have been 98, 99 and 2000 production.

-D

TurnerMS 01-17-2005 11:58 AM

We also had one 2001 325i.

Doug

HW 01-17-2005 11:58 AM

any possibility in making a trunk only reinforcement kit for cars that have no damage.

Elwood 01-17-2005 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugmar
Yes, a considerable amount of labor. Typically 8-10 hours depending on damage. The alternative you ask? Replace the entire rear floorpan with a factory body panel, pay a body shop to rip out the entire rear of the floor and replace with new and then paint it. That is at least double the time, not to mention the price of the parts from BMW. If you do that, we still recommend you install this kit to prevent it from happening again.

We weighed the options for a while and we have found that this is the right way to fix it. We have seen a lot of these cars lately with subframe mounting completely ripped out. The car we used for the photos for example, it was a customer's car, 100% street driven, 100,000 miles, the car never saw one day on the track. We have used this kit on a half dozen cars so far.

The lowest mileage car we have seen with this issue had 60,000 miles. However, we have seen some E46's with 200,000 miles on them with zero issues. :dunno:

Doug

(Edited for spelling)

Definetly sounds like the right way to do it. I'd love to have it done to mine . Maybe if I'm ever up your way..............

TurnerMS 01-17-2005 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM
Doug,

Have you seen any of the Z-series cars failure modes?

We have not seen any Z3's in our shop with that issue. With the E30 style rear suspension, we have seen some diff mount failures, that is about it.

Doug

Andre Yew 01-17-2005 12:13 PM

The kit looks very nice! FWIW, when my rear subframe tear was repaired, reinforcement was added to the area. It seemed to be part of the normal repair process for the E46.

--Andre

TurnerMS 01-17-2005 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumratt
Doug, do you guys have a pre-canned price for installing them? Or is it based on an hourly rate (with 8-10 hours estimated)?

It's based on how long it takes us, which is based on the individual's car. We do not charge flat rate labor.

Doug

LarryN 01-17-2005 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugmar
We weighed the options for a while and we have found that this is the right way to fix it. We have seen a lot of these cars lately with subframe mounting completely ripped out. The car we used for the photos for example, it was a customer's car, 100% street driven, 100,000 miles, the car never saw one day on the track. We have used this kit on a half dozen cars so far.

Hi Doug,

That looks like quite lot of good research went into that kit. Did you happen to do another car recently? My buddy had his done this past week, and I thought that was his car in the pics. He's done lots of driving schools, track days, and 3 seasons of autocross, and only has 68k miles. Is it another 2001 Orient Blue 325i E46 that you did for those pics? Also, I don't believe he had any problems with his rear subframe mounts before. Was the first pic in the instructions from the same car, or a file photo. I'm curious because he does a fair amount of driving events, as I do, and I want to keep an eye on things on my car.

Thanks!
Larry

bluetree211 01-17-2005 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugmar
It's based on how long it takes us, which is based on the individual's car. We do not charge flat rate labor.

Doug

Would you do a canned price for a car that has no damage, ie preventative install? Seems like you could accurately estimate that pretty easily, since you dont need to do any repair work, and all cars disassemble and reassemble the same way. I think we just want a ballpark to figure out if we should come play... ;)

bmw325 01-17-2005 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugmar
We also had one 2001 325i.

Doug

Any idea what the build date on that car was (i.e. was it built in 2000)?

EJEvo 01-17-2005 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluetree211
I think we just want a ballpark to figure out if we should come play... ;)

Hmmm - Let's see: $147 for the parts, 8-10hrs of labor @ $85/hr, that's about... $997. Not sure what's up with taxes in Mass. So bottom line looks to be about a grand, give or take. But I hear they have a special if you let them use your car to learn the process and document it: $1,200. :dunno:

LarryN 01-18-2005 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robg
Any idea what the build date on that car was (i.e. was it built in 2000)?

Since Doug states they did only one 2001, I know whose it was, and they are a bimmerfester as well. It was an early build model (October 2000, I believe), and did not have any damage, prior to the install. I think they used his 2001 model for documentation/final fitiment purposes only.

TurnerMS 01-18-2005 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJEvo
Hmmm - Let's see: $147 for the parts, 8-10hrs of labor @ $85/hr, that's about... $997. Not sure what's up with taxes in Mass. So bottom line looks to be about a grand, give or take. But I hear they have a special if you let them use your car to learn the process and document it: $1,200. :dunno:

No tax on labor, just parts.
For this particular kit, we have the process down now, but we have offered incentives to customer's that donate cars for new product development.

Doug

TurnerMS 01-18-2005 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robg
Any idea what the build date on that car was (i.e. was it built in 2000)?

Sorry, I don't have the exact date of production. We will keep a closer eye on prod. dates on these cars now as they come in.

Doug

FrenchBoy 01-18-2005 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugmar
No tax on labor, just parts.
For this particular kit, we have the process down now, but we have offered incentives to customer's that donate cars for new product development.

Doug

Doug,

Are you saying that it is a common practice of TMS to call a customer who has not previously expressed any interest for such a kit, to ask him if he would be interested in volunteering his car for your development and advertising benefits, to "offer" him the $146.95 not-yet-released-and-fully-QA'd kit and finally to ask him after the work is completed to pay $1200 for the kit install :confused:

Not to mention that the 2001 325i that we are talking about is -I believe - an April '01 production which according to you, probably does not need it.

If this is what TMS considers an "incentive" offer, and if this is how TMS hopes to build lasting relationships with enthusiasts, I may pass on such a "generous" offer.

FrenchBoy

Elwood 01-18-2005 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchBoy
Doug,

Are you saying that it is a common practice of TMS to call a customer who has not previously expressed any interest for such a kit, to ask him if he would be interested in volunteering his car for your development and advertising benefits, to "offer" him the $146.95 not-yet-released-and-fully-QA'd kit and finally to ask him after the work in completed to pay $1200 for the kit install :confused:

Not to mention that the 2001 325i that we are talking about is -I believe - an April '01 production which according to you, probably does not need it.

If this is what TMS considers an "incentive" and this is how TMS hopes to build lasting relationships with enthusiasts, I will pass on such a "generous" offer.

FrenchBoy

:confused: don't think I saw anyone say that was the case. :confused: :loco:

Kaz 01-18-2005 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchBoy
Doug,

Are you saying that it is a common practice of TMS to call a customer who has not previously expressed any interest for such a kit, to ask him if he would be interested in volunteering his car for your development and advertising benefits, to "offer" him the $146.95 not-yet-released-and-fully-QA'd kit and finally to ask him after the work is completed to pay $1200 for the kit install :confused:

Not to mention that the 2001 325i that we are talking about is -I believe - an April '01 production which according to you, probably does not need it.

If this is what TMS considers an "incentive" offer, and if this is how TMS hopes to build lasting relationships with enthusiasts, I may pass on such a "generous" offer.

FrenchBoy

Boy, you must be drinking from the same drinking fountain as TD or something. :loco:

FrenchBoy 01-18-2005 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwood
:confused: don't think I saw anyone say that was the case. :confused: :loco:

The Bimmerfester whose car was used for the pictures told me this was the case... :thumbdwn:

Fortunately, it seems that after a little bit of fighting, TMS has agreed to waive the labor cost.

LarryN 01-18-2005 12:05 PM

I can also verify this was the case... very unfortuantely. :(


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