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Old 03-17-2011, 05:48 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,082
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
I must apologize for the tone of my prior couple of posts. I'm just sick and tired of the 'what oil' discussion. I'm OK with the 'what philosophy' discussion; but there is nobody on the planet who can MOVE anyone from one mind set to the other. It just won't (realistically) happen anymore than I can talk a Jew into being a Christian or a Muslim.

It's my opinion, after reading hundreds of 'what oil' threads, that the oil people choose has more to do with the way their brain is wired than anything we will ever say in these forums.

And, what oil they use can be predicted with almost 100% certainty (within a range of equivalents, of course) if you know what 'mind set' the person belongs to.
  • BMW-approved oils only
  • BMW-approved oils and similar oils only
  • BMW-approved oils and similar oils and quality oils only
So, it just irked me that anyone would even think to try to move me out of my 'mind set' with ANY argument, let alone the argument that the pope knows best (it's just not going to happen and my car isn't going to blow up either because of it).

So, I apologize for my tone. Knowing all that I know now, I absolutely refuse to get into a 'what oil' discussion (other than to point people to the mind-set descriptions to let them choose their own religion).

Anyway, as a courtesy, I will address your points directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport View Post
There is a big difference between Doctrine and Dogma.
As I said, the oil mind sets can be called whatever anyone wants to call them (they would still be the same). I used 'em interchangeably as I'm rather secular. It really doesn't matter to me what the 'camps' are called.

But, for the record, here is a google result of the doctrine vs dogma:
- Doctrine: What the church believes is truth;
- Dogma: What the church proposes as truth.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport View Post
I try to make my choices on vehicle maintenance based on Doctrine, not Dogma.
I guess, converting this to BMW, that makes sense from 'your' standpoint:
- Doctrine: What BMW (the pope) believes is truth;
- Dogma: What BMW (the pope) proposes as truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport View Post
Thus, I avoid the philisophical , and stay technical.
Ah, you're missing the point. Either that, or you're arguing with the absolutely wrong person. Because I refuse to get into a 'what oil' argument now that I've researched this and tried to boil down hundreds of 'what oil' threads into a cohesive 'what oil' thread (I'm no longer the same idealist that started this thread).

When I started this holy quest for the right way to choose oil for your BMW, I was wholly unaware that the result would be impossible because of differences in the people's inherent belief systems.
  • Jew
  • Christian
  • Muslim
You can argue all the technical dogma/doctrine you want but you're never going to convert a Muslim into a Jew (at least not realistically). That's precisely why there is so much "which oil" argument here! People don't realize this is a dogmatic discussion! It can never end.

All I will say from now on is that the belief systems exist. And I'll characterize them, but not the oil to use because that easily falls out of the belief system itself:
  • BMW-approved oils only
  • BMW-approved oils and similar oils only
  • BMW-approved oils and similar oils and quality oils only
The reason for the endless 'what oil' discussions is that people are wired for different decisions when the end result really doesn't matter. If, for example, people were putting in Marvel Mystery Oil into their oil, no matter what they believed as truth, the real truth would end up with a ruined engine.

They'd learn the real truth, the hard way.

But, as with all religious arguments, there IS NO REAL TRUTH when it comes to what oil is best for your BMW! (You 'think' you know the truth; but so does everyone else. And you don't agree. And, it doesn't matter because nobody is putting Marvel Mystery Oil in there. They're all putting decent oil in their engine.)

Do you see what I'm saying? The whole problem is that the philosophies (or mind sets or religions, or whatever you want to call the wiring in people's brain) falls into THREE categories:

a) Those who use what BMW says to use
b) Those who use that plus what seems similar
c) Those who use those two plus whatever else works just as well

After all this research, my only role on bimmerfest, from now 'till the day I die, is to advise people of those three 'mind sets'.

You don't get to choose your mind set anymore than you chose your religion (for the most part, it is foisted upon you by your belief system).

So, if you're of the first mindset, then 'you know' exactly what oils to use; and if you're in the second mindset, then you know exactly what oils to use plus you'll find equivalent oils; and if you're in the third mindset, you'll have all of those oils plus anything else that works to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport View Post
they know considerably more about the engine and its requirements than you, I or anyone else is likely to ever know....that is a fact.
It is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport View Post
They have also taken into consideration many factors that we may not have ever even thought of.
You believe in the infallibility of the BMW god. And that's OK. I don't. And that's OK.

Just like religion, the real proof is that nobody is dying because of which religion they chose (yeah yeah, I know, they're being KILLED by each other but that's not what I mean).

It turns out cn90 and I are not ruining out engines by using the oil that we chose to put in there, the fact that BMW knows engines notwithstanding.

If I chose to be a Christian or a Jew, the 'real' God wouldn't be sending lightning bolts down on me any more than the God of Engines will destroy my engine because I just today put Mobil1 5W30 from Costco.

So, the whole point of arguing oils (just like arguing religions) is pointless.

Let the people choose their own religion and let them choose their own oil. It won't make a difference either way.

Nobody's engine is blowing up either way.
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Last edited by bluebee; 03-18-2011 at 07:30 AM.
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