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2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

94K views 792 replies 102 participants last post by  sf_loft 
#1 ·
Would anyone seriously cross shop this against a F30?
2013 Cadillac ATS
GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.



Development of the new 2013 Cadillac ATS was considered such a priority, it was one of the few programs that was not stopped during GM's bankruptcy. Why? Because the ATS is GM's entree into the largest luxury vehicle segment in the world, a segment basically created by BMW's 3 Series. This is the car that will make Cadillac a global luxury brand.

The new ATS faithfully follows the segment-defining BMW's formula. In fact, chief engineer Dave Masch would probably argue his baby Caddy follows it even more faithfully than BMW. The dynamic benchmark for the ATS was the E46 3 Series, the car many enthusiasts still regard as best of the breed. Masch's team believes BMW moved away from the driver-focused chassis tune of the E46 with the current 3 Series -- the E90 -- and expects that trend will continue with the next-gen 3 Series due later this year. They see an opportunity for Cadillac.

2013 Cadillac ATS Rear Three Quarters
Click to view Gallery
The ATS is virtually all-new from the tires up. About the only parts that could be considered carryover are the revised 3.6-liter DI V-6 and the 6L45E six-speed automatic transmission. It rolls on GM's new lightweight Alpha architecture - the base ATS weighs just over 3300 pounds -- and the chassis has been tuned to deliver razor-sharp steering, precise handling, and buttoned-down ride. The car has been optimized around 17- and 18-inch wheels to keep weight down and improve agility.

The first pre-production cars rolled down the line at the Lansing Grand River Assembly plant in Michigan just before Christmas. The ATS will launch as a sedan only, but coupe, convertible and wagon versions will be rolled out over the next two to three years. There will also be V-series versions. No official word on powertrain for the ATS-V, but a twin-turbo version of the 3.6-liter V-6 looks likely, partly because of the tight underhood packaging, but also because rivals like BMW's next-gen M3 are moving to smaller forced induction powerplants.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/auto_show...t_2013_cadillac_ats_first_look/#ixzz1iuFAEVF2
 
#68 ·
Honestly, I'm actually happy that Cadillac is making this vehicle. If the interior fit and finish are up to world class levels and the driving dynamics are similar to the E46, then I'd say that this is the car that BMW enthusiasts were hoping that BMW would build. I'll say that alot of people would consider this as an excellent choice for US entry level luxury cars. I'd suspect to really move units, the price would have to be 2-3k less than the comparable 3 series with similar if not better levels of standard equipment. The tell-tale sign would be if the car drives like the E46/or a more refined E46 then Caddy will have a winner. I'm a BMW enthusiast but I am mindful of my wallet and as the 3 series is starting to climb up there in price, this seems to be an excellent alternative.
 
#71 ·
One thing I know for sure, is that this is a great time to be a car guy. I really can't remember a time when so many car companies are putting out some really nice designs and the choices in body sizes,shapes,powertrains,propulsion systems, etc have been so vast. There is such a wide mix of cars out there that we as consumers should be really happy. No too long ago your choice in this segment was 3 series or 3 series. Now we have previous joke car companies like Hyundai and Cadillac building RWD driver focused cars. If this pushes BMW to not rest on their laurels, ultimately we as BMW brand consumers win.
 
#80 ·
Of course Mustang being a coupe is an issue for me and many of you who have family needs. But let's be honest, I almost considered getting a 335is, when the local dealer was trying to unload it at a huge discount. But it was my head overruled my heart.

Family needs can be overcome, just convince the kids and your wife hopping in and out of the back seats is good physical for them.:)

I know a guy who managed to convince his wife a Porsche Cayman was good for their family with two girls.:)
 
#81 ·
My mom drove nothing but coupes my whole life. There was her, me, my older brother and sometimes my dad in those cars daily. She drove Porsches almost exclusively except when I was really young she did have a Pinto then when I was past college she switched to Bugs. When growing up I do not recall ever once feeling cramped or anyone ever griping about space. It was not like we did not know what a big car was like because my dad pretty much always had an S class Mercedes. Not like we are a short family either.
 
#85 ·
People who think a Cayenne is a sensible alternative, or a nostalgic fix of the 911 experience, obviously never cared or understood what is this thing called driving dynamics.

I am not blaming your wife at all, I cross-shopped a Cayenne as well when I was shopping for a crossover for my wife. She insisted I checked out the Cayenne.

While speaking to the salesman, it became apparent my wife was hardly alone. Many guys buy Cayennes for their wives so the guys can justify their own expensive toys.

You and I are clearly not one of them. In fact after I test drove the Cayenne, I failed to understand what was the big deal. It was still a crossover. Do people really believe they are driving a Porsche sport car when they are driving a Cayenne?

Luckily the payment on that Cayenne lease would have been nearly $1,400 a month, it wasn't difficult to change her mind and go for the MB SUV.

But I would have seen no issue getting a Porsche Cayman if the time comes.

Back to the topic. There are sports cars that are so intoxicating we will justify it for family purpose. But in the entry level luxury SPORTY car category, there is no reason to favor a coupe when the sedan is equally fun to drive and fits the family needs better.
 
#97 ·
On the Cadillac ATS: I love the idea that GM finally seems to be getting it's poop together and is beginning to build cars that people actually want to buy rather than mostly settling for. It is a good thing that Cadillac and Buick can openly say they're gunning for BMW and not get laughed out of the room.

Having said that, I absolutely loathe GM's interior design. It's a total deal breaker for me. Why does the interior of every GM product have to look like a rejected star trek prop? This isn't new, they've been doing it for more than a decade. And then they go a throw on a wood-trimed steering wheel. WTF? More is not More. When it comes to car styling more often than not less is more. BMW get's it. GM does not (yet).
 
#98 ·
Interior lay out of the CTS was one of the big things that pushed me away as was material(suede in particular) selection. The CTS feels smaller than it really is and I think it is because of how they did the interior. Would imagine they will repeat many of the same mistakes on the STS. For those that care about headliners if you cross shop the Caddy cars then look up at that, looks like the same headliner you'd find in a truck but I personally never look at or touch my headliners so do not actually care how they are.
 
#115 ·
I do not think MBZ has ever been attempting to grab the market that wants "driving machines". If they turned their cars into that then they would not have their current customer base and be even more into compete mode with say the 3 v. C. I do realize they have been trying though to make the C more appealing to younger buyers although their most recent changes to the car almost seems like they gave up on that.
 
#119 ·
I found that eyebrow-raising as well. The very fact that BMW continues to espouse that people don't need an LSD while enthusiasts keep crying for one means that some enthusiasts are going to look here immediately. I must admit, that's still the one thing I don't like about BMW's... hell even my Subaru had an LSD in the back.
 
#121 ·
If this is indeed true and the ATS manages to deliver E46-like handling and driving dynamics, a round of cold showers will be in order for the F30 engineering team and the dreaded electric steering. BMW's equation makes sense as the company is run by bean-counters. Build luxury cars that apply to a larger segment of the population and you'll sell more cars. The enthusiasts will have to move over to the M segment if they wish to stay with the marque. To quote Mark Miller, M stands for Motorsport and Money...the money that will be needed to maintain an M BMW. So the next logical move for us all? Drive a really old BMW, or an M model or to hell with BMWs! :)
 
#122 ·
Both the new 911 and the new Subaru BRZ supposedly have electric steering with great road feel, so BMW should be able to do it.

I believe that when I drive the cars though.
 
#131 · (Edited)
Obviously we'll have to see how it drives, but I was pretty impressed with what I saw of the ATS at the 2012 NAIAS. In general I am not a fan of red, so I'd like to also see how the ATS looks in Silver with a dark leather interior and silver/brushed metal trim. I think the CTS looks best in silver and I appreciate that Cadillac styling is distinctive.

I too hope they are serious about using the e46 as their benchmark for handling. I really liked the e46 driving dynamics more than the e90. I like my e90 for a lot of reasons, but I have had too many issues related to tires and handling/ride. Half the time I can't tell if my suspension is screwed, my tires worn funny (again), or some combination of both. I really feel like us early e90 owners were basically beta testers for unproven suspension and tire tech. Its hard to believe considering the e90 was probably in development for years before it came out in 2005/6.

Also, I'm not sure why everyone is so down on the Cadillac interiors vs BMW. Late model CTS and SRX interiors are very nice. (The 2008 pre-refresh CTS was crap). IMHO BMW interiors have never been anything special. I appreciate the simplicity of my e90's layout, but the durability has been surprisingly bad. My seat bolsters have fallen apart twice now in 5 years. And although the "soft touch" material feels nicer than hard plastic, multiple panels have peeled and have been replaced.

MB and Audi beat BMW on interiors in almost all aspects. Go sit in a new A6 after any BMW. The BMW interior is pretty nice, but the A6 is on another level.
 
#132 ·
asus389: Definitely agree with all your points there. Though I never did own an E9x, I have plenty of friends who do. They've all had similar complaints and problems. I thought the driving dynamics of the E46 were far better as well, and the interior was a really nice place to spend time.

Of course, the interior is the part that would most put me off a car. It's the part I look at all the time. Now here, Audi still has the upper hand in my opinion. While the F30 interior is really nice and a definite step up from the E90, I still think it strikes me as a little "stark". I have to see it in person though. I never much appreciated the E9x interior because it was too "flat". My little 1'er though has an an interior that to all intents and purposes is a great evolution of the E46 interior. It really bears far more resemblance to that than the E9x.

I'll be interested to see the ATS interior in person too. If they have the "feel" of the cabin right then the details tend to just disappear. However, GM does have a bad habit of making the details "pop", which tends to make one feel the interior is vying for your attention (witness the Camaro of the last few years... YUCK!) and thus tends to pull you out of the "feel".
 
#133 ·
Don't know if you all noticed, the ATS interior is one of those "capacitive touch" center stacks like "MyFord Touch" is. I'm personally not a fan of it, I'd much rather had the buttons like the F30 has, which to me is also an improvement of the iDrive only type interior of my mom's E60.

It will be a pain to keep clean since the capacitive surface is a piano black type material.
 
#134 · (Edited)
Agreed. I think the ATS has the "CUE" system which appears to be at least partially controllable via steering wheel buttons. But in general I haven't been a fan of touch screens in cars because they require you to actually be looking at them to use them which IMHO is distracting. Buttons/knobs/wheels/etc... you can develop muscle memory for and they give you tactile feedback. CUE I think is supposed to have haptic feedback, so I'm hopeful at least on this front.
 
#137 · (Edited)
I'm going to say it isn't fair to judge the show car in regards to fit and finish.

The show car is an updated IVER, basically a car built by pre-production folks in Warren on a mock assembly line (about 6 to 9 months ago no less). It doesn't use any of the final parts (some parts in that car came off of pre-production tooling) they attempted to make it look like a production model (by ripping it apart and manually updating things) but if you really look you'll see those issues.

GM is REALLY bad about stuff like that. This is why when they put a car up on the stands they don't really let you get near it.

A GM car isn't fit and finish ready until about 3 months before they roll off the line for full production. You'll notice the Malibu Eco on the floor suffered the same issues.
 
#139 · (Edited)
Lets keep crying before we even drive the car LMFAO


Very sad:rofl:

and 16, why do you keep bringing this stuff up if you drove the car? All these posts you write make me think you never really did test drive the cars.
 
#141 ·
Lets keep crying before we even drive the car LMFAO

Very sad:rofl:

and 16, why do you keep bringing this stuff up if you drove the car? All these posts you write make me think you never really did test drive the cars.
Because...though I found them to be BETTER than I excpected...STILL they are lacking when compared to bimmers past, no denying....PERIOD!!!
And will the bling-bling loving "my wife will just love this pretty new girly interior" ...crowd has been longing for BMW to go the way of MB, AUDI & LEXUS...many of use enthusiasts "mourn" this direction by BMW:thumbdwn:

But YES, it could still be worse...AND will be the next time (redesign) if the trend continues.
Car still looks like funky crap compared to the E46 and E9X M3.
:(
 
#142 · (Edited)
Guess I am NOT alone in my views...MANY others on M3post.com and other BMW forums feel the SAME...FUGLY F30 HOOD LINE ...craps up the whole car design...HUGE & unnecessary FAIL>>>Audi,MB & Porsche found a way to satisfy Euro pedestrian safety without a hideous line cutting across the hood & BMW roundel far too low on front because of it!

JoeyO
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"While I dislike the headlights-grille combo and the small size of the headlights, my biggest gripe with the new F30 design is the bold horizontal line on the front hood. Not only does it push the BMW logo too close to the grille, but it contrasts all the other lines on the car. It's hard for my eyes to ignore it. Sort of like a turd in a punch bowl :)

1) I don't necessarily buy the argument that it's there because of European pedestrian impact laws, because Audi just redesigned their 2013 A4 front and it doesn't have a plastic hood portion. Also, the VW Jetta and Golf are fairly new designs and they do not have a plastic hood portion either. See Audi below.

2) Plus, even if it was mandatory by law, I feel there are much better ways to design better hood lines. For instance, Lamborghini does an excellent job in handling their front line. They make it look like it was intentially designed to blend with the rest of the vehicle. Notice how the line jogs around the Lambo logo. Lambo treats the line as an integral part of the car's design, unlike BMW which treats it like an afterthought. Lambo's hood line has a slight bend which matches the rest of the front end, unlike BMW which looks like they used a perfectly straight ruler.

IMO, another hood design which deals with the front line issue OK is the Volvo S40. With the Volvo, the hood lines match up with the other lines of the car nicely. Just my 2 cents.

By the way, if I had to pick the best front end design in the current BMW line-up I'd pick the X3. It's very traditional, clean, bold, and looks modern. :)
"
 
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