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Old 03-01-2013, 08:08 PM
boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
Location: USA
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 9,049
Mein Auto: BMW M428i
Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
The 3-series is released to the $32,000 market with the option of upgrading it to someone who is in the $50,000 market. The base car is still the same and the additional $18,000 is optional. I can assure you that the car is not designed for the $50,000 market and then stripped of content.
You couldn't be more wrong.

Luxury brands (BMW, Mercedes Benz) start from the top and allow buyers to work their way down. Base brands (Honda, Toyota) start from the bottom and force buyers to work their way up. Two different types of car philosophies, two different customers, two different strategies.

Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
You can buy an Audi A4 for as low as $32,000 and an S4 model well appointed gets close to $60,000. That gives you multiple cars in one - the entry-level to something that approaches the exotic, but you know what, that $60,000 model is still just an A4.
Take leather off a BMW, people say "eeew, no way you should be able to do that in a luxury car."

Put leather on a Honda, people say "what's the point of a feature like that on a cheap car?"

Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
Conveniently you forgot about the MINI. That is the "step-down" brand you are referring to. You also conveniently forgot about the 1-series which is a step-down from the 3-series. Where your argument falls flat is that Honda, Toyota and Nissan created the up-market brands to penetrate different markets. Audi was a stand-alone company and VW purchased it. Audi is not merely a higher-end brand of a lower end car.
Let me see, is there a roomy, 5 passenger sedan from MINI? Let me check. Nope.

Let me see, is there a roomy 4-door Sedan in the 1 Series? Let me check. Nope.

There is nothing close to the 3 Series Sedan in the BMW line, very different situation.

Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
A well appointed Accord or Camry goes for around $33,000 and it is as well appointed as a $50,000 3-series, in some aspects even superior. It is two cars in one. It is merely filling a market niche and I can assure you that Honda sells many more $25,000 Accords than the $33,000 version.
Thank you for supporting my point. There's only one kind of person that would eschew the features and appointments in a $33,000 Accord for a $37,000 BMW. A status-seeker. BMW forces you to pay $4,000 more to get no leather, no moonroof, no heated seats, no widescreen LCD, no keyless access, and on and on. And just to even the score, you need to throw another $13,000 just to get those features back in the BMW.

You are right; the F30 is two cars:

It's a $50,000 German luxury car that has the bare minimum creature comforts and industry-leading technology.

It's a $37,000 status-symbol for someone who can't afford it and is so in need of social standing that he's willing to live without the types of luxury features found on Honda's and Toyota's for 30 years to get it.

Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
Most other (non-BMW) manufacturers benefit from cooperation and have elected to create different brands and sharing underpinnings. In the European market the BMW (the same car we drive here in the USA) is seen as a common every-day car. The Audi is the more expensive and up-market brand. Purely marketing and perception of people.
We don't live in Europe. Spare me the "Hey, an E Class is a taxi in Frankfurt!" I know. I go to Germany twice a year. A Buick is a Rolls Royce in Shanghai. The inverse works too.

Originally Posted by dsackman View Post
As a final point, Audi belongs to VW as are notable companies such as Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti and there is a lot of technological cross-pollination happening to provide us, the consumer with the best technologies at the best possible prices (or the best profits for the company BMW elects not to use outside technologies and suffers from it.

BJ, you know, you should step out of the Walmart parking lot sometimes. There is a whole wide world out there outside of BMW. I know that in a Walmart parking lot the 3-series may be "best-in-class" and can cost as much as $50,000, but underneath it is still the $32,000 motor car. Sorry, I just had to add that jab
An Audi is a rebadged Volkswagen.

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