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Why is the 5 so expensive

18K views 161 replies 37 participants last post by  Ralph1201 
#1 ·
I keep coming back to the 5 as a replacement for my aging RL. Yet even a small smattering of options, puts a 535xi in the 65k to 70k plus range. That's the same as a new S6. While I have a new found respect for BMW, after attending their performance driving school, their option packages are excessive.
 
#3 ·
Products are priced in two ways. First, it has to make a profit, or will lead to a profit, otherwise it does not pay to produce. Next, it is priced to the market. If the market is willing to pay the price for the product, the product is well priced.

You can get a car with the basic attributes of a 5er for half the price, similar size, carrying capacity, etc.

Same with jeans. You can spend anywhere from $10 to a couple of hundred dollars for jeans.

So why does BMW charge so much for the 5? Because they can.
 
#4 ·
Products are priced in two ways. First, it has to make a profit, or will lead to a profit, otherwise it does not pay to produce. Next, it is priced to the market. If the market is willing to pay the price for the product, the product is well priced.

You can get a car with the basic attributes of a 5er for half the price, similar size, carrying capacity, etc.

Same with jeans. You can spend anywhere from $10 to a couple of hundred dollars for jeans.

So why does BMW charge so much for the 5? Because they can.
O.K. Well said. :thumbup:
 
#5 ·
One strat is to buy packages when you want enough of the included options to realize a savings. If not, cherry-pick the options you want and add them separately. BMW is very good about ordering exactly what you want if they're unable to find it.

Also, know the invoice price of the car/options when you go in to the dealer (cars.com will let you config the car and see invoice and MSRP pricing). You can work a pretty amazing deal off sticker.
 
#6 ·
there were some great deals on leftover 2012 as long as you like black interior, and no sport options. Now, the 2013 are basically a grand off sticker. There are no content discounts yet like on the 12, ($2500), or conquest etc. Small market, cleveland area will need to wait.
 
#7 ·
Fortunately, I am on the opposite side of the spectrum. I prefer a car solely for its driving dynamics. Yes, I will pay for the handling and performance packages, but not the convenience and premium packages.
 
#8 ·
Expensive compare to what? the RL?? They are in two difference class of cars. I would say a $70K 535xi is almost loaded and not a small smattering of options. One can get a 2012 535xi now for about $10K off, thats $60K or so for a loaded 535xi, not a bad deal compare to the $80000 S6 which has no discount.
 
#13 · (Edited)
It's expensive because it can be. BMW has the cachet and prestige to command such prices and they have no problem selling them. Of course, no one is actually paying MSRP on BMWs. It makes it look like you're getting a fantastic deal when the dealer chops off $10k.

But I do think that BMW needs to lower prices because the whole "chopping thousands off sticker" is getting old and annoying. It kills future resale for those who finance, like me. Audi and Lexus don't resort to $10k off sticker deals to move inventory. Try asking the Lexus or Audi dealer for $10k off a Q7 or RX. They would tell you to get out. The BMW dealer would probably sell the X5 to you for close that amount :)
 
#14 ·
It's expensive because it can be. BMW has the cachet and prestige to command such prices and they have no problem selling them. Of course, no one is actually paying MSRP on BMWs. It makes it look like you're getting a fantastic deal when the dealer chops off $10k.
my grandma does :rofl: she picks a color and they drop it at her house, she strokes a check.
 
#16 ·
Let's be frank - the 5 series is a rip-off for what you get.

The only reason they get away with charging these ridiculous prices are:
- Many people will rather have a car with few options but a BMW badge rather than a loaded Audi or Lexus (snob buyers)
- Some people are so obsessed with BMWs historical reputation for handling that they won't even cross shop competition (drone buyers)
- Some people are completely uncompromising and buy what they consider the best at any price (Mugs)

I know these labels are condescending, but in the spirit of brutal honesty I would admit I fall into one of them.

A sensible person would buy an Audi A6 or a Lexus GS350 instead of a 535i. But we aren't making a sensible choice here. We are making an emotional one. Which is why I drive an M5.
 
#19 ·
The man gets it
 
#17 ·
Let's be frank - the 5 series is a rip-off for what you get.

The only reason they get away with charging these ridiculous prices are:
- Many people will rather have a car with few options but a BMW badge rather than a loaded Audi or Lexus (snob buyers)
- Some people are so obsessed with BMWs historical reputation for handling that they won't even cross shop competition (drone buyers)
- Some people are completely uncompromising and buy what they consider the best at any price (Mugs)

I know these labels are condescending, but in the spirit of brutal honesty I would admit I fall into one of them.

A sensible person would buy an Audi A6 or a Lexus GS350 instead of a 535i. But we aren't making a sensible choice here. We are making an emotional one. Which is why I drive an M5.
 
#30 ·
I dunno Stealth. I could have had an Audi or a Lexus or a Mercedes, or anything else with a price up to 70k (a self imposed limit). But I chose the f10 535i because I preferred the way it drove, the interior quality and the looks. Was it an emotional purchase? Well, I felt happy after I bought it, and happiness is an emotion, so I guess so. Was it an uncompromising purchase? Hardly. Almost every decision in life involves some kind of compromise, including car purchases. A snob purchase. Well, maybe a little.

But I do agree with you Stealth. Those labels are condescending.
 
#21 ·
While I definitely agree with the not-a-Honda/emotional decision/"yes we're getting ripped off but who cares" camp, I would also say that BMW discounts at the table whereas Audi is pretty straightforward about pricing...you're paying the sticker and if not, well, piss off.

I still haven't decided whose pricing strategy I like better.
 
#22 ·
This is an emotional subject and I thought twice before I decided to post anything. For me I like the BMW ethos. I like the way their designers think and the way the cars, in general, drive. I have owned MB and Jaguar. I have never owned an Audi and Lexus. I have driven them, (going to the effort of driving them for extended periods of time) and I do not like them.

Is the 5 expensive? Yes it is. A current well equipped 528i today is more expensive than a 2002 540i sport (manual with everything). Is this inflation, is BMW ripping us off? I have no real clue. However I do know I do not like Lexus (too fussy interiors, characterless) and I do not like Audi (generic appearance, fussy interiors - I am a minimalist etc.). But this is my opinion. As my wife knows, I drive cars, lots of cars, and BMWs make me smile. I love them. Even this new 528i which has its little 4 cylinder engine and funny feeling electric steering. I love the damn thing! As I said it is emotional. Any rational analysis would make the likes of BMW an eccentric anachronism and we would all be driving Hondas or Toyotas.

I suspect I am a mug, but then I do not really care. I drive what I like. BTW I try to buy towards the end of the model year and get the best deal I can. However my pending X1 buy is based on a need, sort of, still I am only paying invoice. So I reduce my exposure, but do not eliminate, the rip off factor when buying a BMW.
 
#26 ·
Unfortunately that's the reality but you'll have to negotiate (and play games with the sales staff). Having owned and leased 5 BMWs, each time I have to ensure I take advantage of all the incentives and know the timing for the best offer. You'll have to do some researches and shop around, one positive thing is that there are plenty of BMW dealers here in So Cal.

Good luck.
 
#27 ·
Everybody thinks they should be paid a higher salary, yet the same people wine about what something costs.

I am surprised no one here is complaining about the cost of a Rolex, it is all about supply and demand.

The RL is cheap because no one, and I mean, no one wants one. One of the worst selling cars ever. Maybe its Acura's hideous front end that they stick on every model. I think Gillette might have designed it.:eeps:
 
#28 ·
The RL is cheap because no one, and I mean, no one wants one. One of the worst selling cars ever. Maybe its Acura's hideous front end that they stick on every model. I think Gillette might have designed it.:eeps:
Valid point. Only reason why Acura outsells Infiniti, Audi, etc is because they have Honda's reputation behind them and they sell cars for dirt cheap (example: compare RDX to Q5/X3/GLK)

The designer for the beak deserves to get shot and killed (IMO, of course :rofl:)
 
#32 ·
I think as others have said, their needs to be a clear distinction between luxury marques.

Tier 1) rolls, bentleys, maybachs etc

Tier 2) Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Porsche

Tier 3) Acura and Infinti

This brand distinction isnt particularly clear since if you look it at, platform sharing between the luxury marques (ie VAG) and between marques and their parent group (ie Bmw and Rolls), but this is the best you can figure.

Now if you look at Tier 2 mfgs, like Audi, Lexus, and Porsche, your stuck at sticker, or maybe a 1% off sticker, they dont negotiate mostly, unless its model end or something like conquest cash comes about. Bmws and Mercedes the negotiating headroom is much better. Bmws and mercedes can be had for 500-1000 above invoice, which is about 6k off of sticker. These two dont get stuck at msrp, since they are two companies that dont offer economical alternatives. Example VAG: If you want a family SUV/SAV your choices are: Economical VW Tourag, Luxury: Audi Q7 Performance: Porsche Cayenne. Hence, why negotiate, they offer the same vehicle platform, in different flavors from different marques.

Now when it comes to BMW, they only offer one marque, and they can do the same, but with different option sets (Base 528i, 535i, 550i) hence you get your three choices, all from the same brand, and diff price points. So in my opinion, BMW 5s arent really priced high or expensive, they offer what they can in the Luxury domain, and that too at an affordable invoice price, which is far less than what the others can do.

Now if you compare different tiers, theirs going to be an obvious stick shock/outrage. My thing is yes, BMW do offer less, then say Acura and Infinti offer, but you have to see where each manufacturer is coming from. If you look at my sig it explains a bit, but if you look at Acura, their cost to build a RL is going to be far less than a 5, since they share basic architecture from the Honda vehicles they are based on.

Sorry for the long, convoluted read folks!
 
#34 ·
I think as others have said, their needs to be a clear distinction between luxury marques.

Tier 1) rolls, bentleys, maybachs etc

Tier 2) Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Porsche

Tier 3) Acura and Infinti
I think I would put Lexus in the Tier 3 as well.

Porsche has to be differentiated as well. There are Porsches (911 and Panamera) which enter the Tier 1 level, while the Cayenne's, Gayman's, and Boxter's tickle the Tier 2 level.
 
#37 ·
I think we can add the equus and genesis To tier 7&8. LOL. (love Hyundais refinement plans, but I think they need to establish which direction there going in, Hyundai = Lux Kia=economical ?....)

Again folks, very very loose tier distinctions, and the focus is on looking at the car manufacture as a complete working group. Yes every luxury car maker has their one off exotics (LFA, 918, carrera) and their performance brand (m, amg, rs, f) , but overall they still offer affordable, mass producible cars (x5, ml, q7, cayenne, rx). Hence Porsche in tier 2.

Lexus was a brand I had some apprehensions about, since while they're basic platform is from a Toyota, they have been continuously striving to match, or best the other brands in tier 2, with infotainment systems, and driving characteriscs. Plus their dealers are probably equivalent to Audi dealers, since they seem to never budge off Msrp unless something of the above mentions. I also saw their new ls, and that screen is the biggest in the business, even bigger than BMW (not saying thats a sole reason one should buy a Ls over the other offerings but that does show their new found drive, to get with the German industry). Unlike Acura and Infiniti, who pretty much use virtually everything they have from their parent company, Lexus is trying to differentiate, and to that I granted them tier 2 status
 
#42 ·
If you're looking at the Audi S6, consider the 550ix (with M sport and Dynamic Handling Package). That would be more price and performance competitive with the $70+ Audi S6. If you can find a new left over 2012 550ix, it would even be more competitive price wise.
 
#43 ·
Lexus LS - that car alone is sufficient to take Lexus to Tier 2.

I dont think Acura can ever make such a car. Infinity ofcourse is not even in this frame.. coz they are busy chasing their passion to create the ugliest cars on the planet.

I think Lexus is Tier 2 marque. they have the intent and dedication to be that. and results are showing.

Also, i think Porsche deserves a 1.5 Tier.. where it is a "practical" alternative to ferraris.
 
#47 ·
Lexus LS - that car alone is sufficient to take Lexus to Tier 2.

I dont think Acura can ever make such a car. Infinity ofcourse is not even in this frame.. coz they are busy chasing their passion to create the ugliest cars on the planet.

I think Lexus is Tier 2 marque. they have the intent and dedication to be that. and results are showing.

Also, i think Porsche deserves a 1.5 Tier.. where it is a "practical" alternative to ferraris.
:rofl: on the passion to create the ugliest car.
 
#44 ·
Actually, I do know an Acura R&D employee who was part of the team that took a stock BMW M5 (e60) a few years ago to thoroughly drive and benchmark it, and took it apart to see what made it work...maybe even use some of BMW engineering wizardry. While that didn't surprise me, what did was their conclusion. While they admired what the BMW M5 was, they concluded that it was too much a "hot rod" and not what the target market for the Acura RL is and remains to be.
That Acura could build a "hot rod" is not the question as they demonstrated with the NSX, but again, it is the target market. Can you imagine the NSX engineering applied to a Honda or Acura TL? M3 and AMG C63 domain?
In the same conversation, their finance guy commented its all about the numbers....they'd rather sell 100s of plain Acuras (and Hondas) rather than one hot rod at a loss, as they did with each NSX they sold.

So, I don't think the Acura pretends or purports to be a tier 2 automobile, they're after that soft spot of the buying public that wants reliability (OK, so its a Honda or Toyota platform) with just a hint of sportiness, technical prowess, even pedigree. Gee...I wonder if the tier 2 manufacturers will ever head that way? Nah...they've got enthusiast, right or wrong, like us on this and other forums. And, I'm OK with that just the same.
 
#48 ·
I think you summed it up great on Acura.

However I think the engineer doesn't need to reverse engineer the m5, I think reverse engineering a 528i or 535i is more in line with what would get Acura into tier 2. M5 equivalent isn't really needed in acuras portfolio. In addition, they actually are thinking of adding the hybrid powertrain concept from the nsx prototype into the next gen RL, so yes trickle down tech, a common mfg implementation, would be possibly going into the RL.

Again, the costs would increase, but at least they could distribute the costs across their Marques, unlike BMW and MB.

As a person who believes in the ideology, focus one thing, and do it well, and Acura and infiniti take luxury and make it affordable, and sell it in volume. They do it well. Honestly if they make the MDX well, I'm ready to buy!
 
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