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Supplemental Maintenance

16K views 37 replies 12 participants last post by  Diesel Power 
#1 ·
Thought some on here might be interested in this information.

Took the time yesterday to do some maintenance that I thought was appropriate, no matter what the official BMW stance is on the subject (3 year fuel filter change interval and “lifetime” transmission fluid . . . Both seem too long to me).

First attached pic is of the car up on the lift as the new fuel filter is beling flushed. Was curious if there was evidence of water trapped by the filter. Good news is no free water found. This could mean a couple things: 1) The truck stop used for >95% of fuel must do a good job of keeping free water from their tanks. 2) The fuel filter doesn’t do diddly for stopping free water. Hope #1 is the reason.

Second picture is a comparison of the old transmission fluid to the new fluid (ZF Lifeguard 6 as recommended by the transmission manufacturer). Was a bit surprised at the color and smell of the old fluid at <30,000 mls. Glad it was decided to do a fluid change this early. Considering not all the fluid gets refreshed with the approach used think a 2-3yr change interval will continue to be used on this vehicle.
 

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#2 ·
Thought some on here might be interested in this information.

Took the time yesterday to do some maintenance that I thought was appropriate, no matter what the official BMW stance is on the subject (3 year fuel filter change interval and "lifetime" transmission fluid . . . Both seem too long to me).

First attached pic is of the car up on the lift as the new fuel filter is beling flushed. Was curious if there was evidence of water trapped by the filter. Good news is no free water found. This could mean a couple things: 1) The truck stop used for >95% of fuel must do a good job of keeping free water from their tanks. 2) The fuel filter doesn't do diddly for stopping free water. Hope #1 is the reason.

Second picture is a comparison of the old transmission fluid to the new fluid (ZF Lifeguard 6 as recommended by the transmission manufacturer). Was a bit surprised at the color and smell of the old fluid at <30,000 mls. Glad it was decided to do a fluid change this early. Considering not all the fluid gets refreshed with the approach used think a 2-3yr change interval will continue to be used on this vehicle.
Me thinks you need to refill the Evan Williams bottle in the background!:rofl:
 
#3 ·
Thought some on here might be interested in this information.

Took the time yesterday to do some maintenance that I thought was appropriate, no matter what the official BMW stance is on the subject (3 year fuel filter change interval and "lifetime" transmission fluid . . . Both seem too long to me).

First attached pic is of the car up on the lift as the new fuel filter is beling flushed. Was curious if there was evidence of water trapped by the filter. Good news is no free water found. This could mean a couple things: 1) The truck stop used for >95% of fuel must do a good job of keeping free water from their tanks. 2) The fuel filter doesn't do diddly for stopping free water. Hope #1 is the reason.

Second picture is a comparison of the old transmission fluid to the new fluid (ZF Lifeguard 6 as recommended by the transmission manufacturer). Was a bit surprised at the color and smell of the old fluid at <30,000 mls. Glad it was decided to do a fluid change this early. Considering not all the fluid gets refreshed with the approach used think a 2-3yr change interval will continue to be used on this vehicle.
My experience has been the same. Automatic transmissions use a thin layer of fluid between plates to create the friction surface, which as you can imagine, has a lot of heat generated. If the fluid is not synthetic, it breaks down even more easily. I have changed it in as little as 13,000 miles to find it to be seriously discolored. Black and junky after 44,000 miles on a Honda.

The larger fuel filters found in TDI's seemed never to have any water when I drained them, nor did they need changing for at least 30K miles.

PL
 
#6 ·
You can find UOA's on LG6 taken from AT's with over 70k miles and they came back fine. I've personally spoken to an engineer at ZF who informed me that outside their severe service interval the fluid can easily go 100k miles. The mechtronics is the key to long fluid life and once the fluid is changed the transmission needs to be reset (clear adaptations?) so the mechtronics will adjust to the new fluid characteristics (sp?).
 
#23 ·
Got to BITOG
You specifically said there are analyses that show fluid is good at 70k.

So I am confused why you are linking to a UOA that shows a failed fluid???? Lower viscosity than is required; higher insolubles; higher wear metals. Their averages are based on 30k miles...this UOA is 2x that in length but wear is 2x, 3x, 5x more.... what are you seeing that says 70k is fine

???

A

PS I am a bit of a fanatic on ATF- if there is data supporting BMWs position, then lets see it...but I refuse to allow causal assertions go unchallenged.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Per ZF with regards to all passenger AT severe service is 8 yrs or 80k-120k KM where vehicle was operating in " frequent hwy driving in top speed range", "offensive,sporty driving style","frequent trailer operation".

The conversion to miles 48k to 72k.

Something to keep in mind is that these new units are holding up very well under normal maintenance. You just don't hear about failures from used car owners.


Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
 

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#9 · (Edited)
Per ZF with regards to all passenger AT severe service is 8 yrs or 80k-120k KM where vehicle was operating in " frequent hwy driving in top speed range", "offensive,sporty driving style","frequent trailer operation".

The conversion to miles 48k to 72k.

Something to keep in mind is that these new units are holding up very well under normal maintenance. You just don't hear about failures from used car owners.

Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
So, uh, how would you explain the reality of the original post in this thread - how nice the color of the fluid is in "<30,000 miles"??

48k to 72k sounds reasonable, though, given ZF's advanced design adaptive to the quality of the fluid, and, IMO, how most of us drive.

Reality is different than what a marketing department at ZF or any other manufacturer suggests. There are compromises at every step of automotive manufacturing, and automatic transmissions have been somewhat of a disappointment in reliability if you haven't noticed.

Driving like a European driver, with the kind of care they have historically given (remember how beloved Fiats were in Europe when they were trash in the US) is almost totally different from what I affectionately call the "stoplight grand prix" here in the US. High speed driving and long stretches with a locked up torque converter doesn't translate to frequent high torque shifting and gear changes in stop and go driving. Its just a matter of judgement on how to define heavy duty use.

So as I said, buyer beware. My experience has been to change the fluid at least within 30-60,000 miles on traditional planetary gear type automatics. Even DSG's or "auto-manuals" like the one VW has call for 40,000 mile fluid changes.

PL
 
#10 ·
Color means little. Wrench boredom is a sickness which we all suffer from it to some degree. Hell I like to change my oil every 6.5k miles. I know it's probably a waste but I just like doing it.

"Hello, my name is John and I am a wrenchaholic". "Hello John! "
;)

Just trying to keep people informed.


Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
 
#11 · (Edited)
Color means little. Wrench boredom is a sickness which we all suffer from it to some degree. Hell I like to change my oil every 6.5k miles. I know it's probably a waste but I just like doing it.

"Hello, my name is John and I am a wrenchaholic". "Hello John! "
;)

Just trying to keep people informed.

Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
This does not in any way negate the argument that under heavy use, changing the fluid at 30-60,000 mile intervals is a good precaution. Color is but one indicator and could mean nothing or it could mean burnt fluid: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/141

Good information includes lack of cynicism and respect for real data. Anecdotal data is useless in this respect, but case studies such as incidents of burnt fluid and transmission failures at lower than "forever" mileage are eye-opening. Until there is solid data, we will need to depend on BMW to provide us with recommendations. Heavy duty use is a point that is a judgement call which your cynical comments seem to ignore. Certainly most of us don't baby our cars and this would not be recommended anyway for the common diesel motor which seems to do better with full load.

I believe its also very reasonable to do UOA on the transmission fluid for these ZF boxes to know when to service them.

Here's another similar point of view saying 50,000 mile changes: http://blog.bavauto.com/11194/bmw-d...-and-filter-change-how-to-replace-auto-trans/

I'm done with this thread. Thanks for your point of view.

PL
 
#12 ·
Agreed. The internet is full of anecdotal support for 30k mile ATF change which people take as gospel and in the same vein manufacturers recommendations are completely disregarded.

I see it time and time again with this brand. People make the irrational and to be honest contradictory confidence in that BMW knows how to design great vehicles using high performance parts but they know absolutely nothing about maintenance .

An interesting example od this is that years ago a local shop had on their website a picture of a customers sludged up BMW I6 and made a comment about BMW's OCI causing this type of sludge. Well because of this the internet was a flurry of all these owners crapping on BMW OCI. I called BS on them because this Indy shop lifted the pic off the internet and the actual story behind THAT engine was that the owner never changed the oil and/or used regular dino juice which wasn't formulated for the factory OCI. The shop was having difficulty getting a straight answer from the owner.

To this day I see photos from that engine popping up.

I just think people should have relevant information from the horses mouth when possible. The decision in the end us theirs.

On side note I saw an online site suggest the incorrect motor oil for a U.S. spec 335i when that brand specifically states not for use in US models. The vendor didn't give any qualifier to using that brand which they should have.


Sent from my MB525 using Bimmer App
 
#13 ·
I recently had a BMW (ZF) auto transmisstion faliure in our 2000 540iT at 140K miles. I also did proactive fluid changes every 50K miles. In this case the forward drum cracked. All the fluid changes in the world would not have prevented this.

After this experience ($5K) not sure where I stand anymore on this topic. I certainly will change the fluid before 100K miles, how much before is the question....
 
#14 ·
Yikes

Was just trying to add to the knowledge base . . . Agree that smell and color are not a quantifiable basis for determining the quality or deterioration of a fluid. I still have the tranny fluid in that sealed container, thinking now I'll send it off to get tested so there's some quantifiable data.

Guys, we can work together to increase the BMW diesel experience for all of us. These are great, fun cars with a fantastic performance/economy ratio. Hopefully we can help each other.
 
#18 ·
I still have the tranny fluid in that sealed container, thinking now I'll send it off to get tested so there's some quantifiable data.
Got the UOA back. Copper seems a little high and found the particle count sizing interesting. Think I'll keep doing ~30k services where ~1/2 the fluid gets refreshed each time.
 

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#28 ·
Is there a DIY thread on our transmission fluid change anywhere? I have a little over 80,000 miles and am thinking of just dropping the pan and draining/refilling just to get some fresh fluid in the mix. I do oil, DEF and brakes myself; is this similar or a step above in difficulty/complexity? Thx
 
#29 ·
#32 ·
Approaching 50k and due to the modified nature of the vehicle wanted to get an idea on how the transmission is holding up.

This time I changed the pan as well. Attached some pics.

The fluid was darker than what came out during the first change. The 3 clear glass containers are fresh ZF oil, 2012 fluid, and then what came out yesterday. Sampled the fluid and sent it into get analyzed. Analysis attached of the first and then this 2nd fluid change.

There was some "material" contained on the magnets. Not sure how normal the amount is compared to what others have seen.

Also snapped a shot of the old and new pans side by side, and the transmission guts seen when the pan is removed.

Even though BMW calls the transmission fluid "lifetime" ... ZF says otherwise.

http://www.zf.com/media/media/docum...elluebergreifend_1/ZP_SI_Oelwechselkit_EN.pdf

Depending on the driving style, ZF therefore recommends a transmission oil change every 80000 to 120000 km, or after 8 years at the latest.
 

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#33 ·
Definitely looks dirty to me. I think 80-120k is a long time for Tranny Fluid but temp is a major factor and we really have no measure of that in our cars.

I'm reaching 74k so may give it a look as well. I'm planning to hold on to this 2010 335D till it is no longer "viable".:thumbup:
 
#34 ·
At 49K my plans are very similar, hold on till no longer reliable, which hopefully is the 200K mark. Because my car rarely sees severe service, most mileage is highway, my plan was for tranny fluid change around 80K miles. This will be well within the extended warranty should something 'happen' due to the change. For the next change would go with a shorter interval as all the fluid does not actually get changed (torque converter)

Are most also spending the extra $$$ to replace the pan/filter?
 
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