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X5 35d CEL P205b

157K views 240 replies 49 participants last post by  mr_byers 
#1 ·
My 2011 X5 diesel thru a P205b CEL error. The "b" looks like a "6" on the diagnostic monitor. Technician had to replace the urea tank. He said that the actual problem was in the temperature sensor, but it was integrated into the tank so he had to replace the tank. I just wanted to post my resolution in case any of you out there experience this problem. It was covered under warranty. I asked the service advisor how much it would cost to replace it if not covered under warranty. He indicated that the part alone cost $1200 plus 4.5 hrs for labor. Hope this information helps someone.

This is my first BMW and diesel. The diesel exhaust system seems very complicated and I wouldn't be surprised if it continues to give me problems. In less than 2 yrs, it has thrown 4 CEL errors. Love the way the car drives so I put up with these CEL issues. My wife's 2011 X3 (gas) seems to be a little more reliable than mine. I am going to keep a close eye on the reliability issues and may replace it with an X3 or X5 gas.
 
#2 ·
We had this fault code a few weeks ago on our 2010. The DEF system was in need of refilling (no start in 9XX miles) so the dealer tried adding some DEF and the fault cleared and hasn't been back since.

However, we have had recurring "low catalyst efficiency" codes being thrown lately. First cause was blocked DEF injector...:yikes:


The faults have continued and the dealer is continuing to diagnose the root cause. Last effort was a complete flush of the DEF system and so far no faults. We will see...

Cheers.
 
#3 · (Edited)
[corrected]

How dealers fix these cars, and how we will be fixing them in the market once 'real people' beging working on, and paying for, repairs will be dramatically different. (Like cleaning the nozzle, repairing it or finding a replacement!)

Dealers are instructed by the OE to replace parts, often times in lagre and wasteful chunks.

Im not saying you repair was unnecessary, or there was some other fix...but just in general.

A
 
#32 ·
This is what thinking too. The dealers are always higher. If find the part on the web
and take to a indie shop. Or many will find a work around situation. Not sure but
this urea has only been around a couple of years ?????? so still got the bugs and
recall will be continuing maybe even extended warranties like the 335 fuel pumps.

What also don't understand is why BMW doesn't want any additives put in fuel that
many report on other brands that help. ??? Keep you going back to dealer
 
#5 ·
Ard,

Both P2056 and P205b exist. http://upkeep.us/OBDII/OBD2/GMC/General-Motors/piart.php?art=1532 --> "Reductant Tank Temperature Sensor Circuit Range / Performance". This is exactly what the tech told me. He stated that the temp sensor was integrated into the tank, so they replaced the tank. To your point, a BMW repair shop may be able to replace the sensor for less $.

Thanks
 
#7 · (Edited)
Thanks. I didnt look far enough on my list. ive corrected the post to be accurate.

Here is the tank: http://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/...ar=2011&ukey_driveLine=6471&searchString=tank

Pricey...

A

PS And to the point of fixes- in 10 years, with 200k on an x5d, I'd figure out what resistor needs to be wired to the connector to 'fool' the computer...or find a sensor that can be wired in and drill a hole in the tank to mount it..or..or... it will be amazing how much more information becomes available one warranties end and real DIYers tackle these. I've seen it on every car Ive followed- from 'new to 10 years'...a very impressive expansion of knowledge and DIYer capability.
 
#9 ·
The thinking is it was a failure with the injector/metering unit (the E90 recall I mentioned above) or the pump (which was also replaced on ours). If the DEF is not injected into the exhaust stream properly and/or leaks out of the injector it will collect around the injection port. The fluid will then evaporate and leave behind a white crystallized substance (I assume the urea solids) which is the build-up seen in my photo.

The crystallization is easily seen by E70 owners anytime the system is refilled and the excess DEF is not rinsed out of the small catch basins surrounding the fill ports.

Cheers
 
#11 ·
New to the forum. my first BMW diesel but not the first diesel.
Got P205b code, I called my SA, and he emailed me the quote
OPERATION: ESD2 Exhaust System Diagnosis II All

QTY PART NUMBER PART DESCRIPTION PART PRICE EXT PRICE
1 BM16-19-7-244-138 ACTIVE TANK 1418.73 1418.73

MISC CODE MISC DESCRIPTION QUOTE MIN QUOTE MAX PRICE
10 SHOP SUPPLIES 0.00
16 ENVIRONMENTAL CHG 1.00 5.00 1.00

LABOR $: 671.06
PARTS $: 1418.73
GOG $: 0.00
MISC. $: 1.00
TAX $: 85.13
------------------------
SUBTOTAL $: 2175.92

I have 95k on my X5, so it's out of the warranty from mileage stand point. I being told the active tank is special order from Germany and takes 3-4 weeks to get here.
Jpeytonii, how far off the warranty were you?
The car seems to be driving fine. Anyone know if any problem driving with the P205b CEL for few weeks / few thousands miles?


Chao.
 
#12 ·
I have 95k on my X5, so it's out of the warranty from mileage stand point. I being told the active tank is special order from Germany and takes 3-4 weeks to get here.
Jpeytonii, how far off the warranty were you?
The car seems to be driving fine. Anyone know if any problem driving with the P205b CEL for few weeks / few thousands miles?

Chao.
I was only out by a few thousand miles.

FYI - the active SCR tank is available from other dealers for less than $1K.

I don't believe there will be any mechanical damage to the vehicle. The only possibility I can think of is a potential risk to the cat, but i don't think it would be a problem IMO. You will not pass emissions without the SCR system functioning however.

Good luck.

Cheers.
 
#14 ·
I'd try and clean off the sensor and see if maybe it was just fouled, Mais worrybe some of the urea crystallized onthe sensor causing the errors.

BMW doesnt have a 'cleaning' procesure...you just replace parts. As far as they are concerned, 'you see code A, you replace part B'. Even if the mechanic now it

Try getbmwparts.com: http://www.getbmwparts.com/parts/in...16197244138&action=oePartSearch&siteid=214672

They have a $50 off coupon on the main page for purchases over 1000. $1084 final price
 
#15 ·
I know I sound like a broken record, but....

One of the great advantages of being a BMWCCA member is that most dealers give you a discount on parts. One repair like this, and the membership pays for itself. Plus you get the great Roundel magazine, and the Members Reward rebate when you purchase or lease your next BMW (including CPO). What's not to like? www.bmwcca.org.
 
#16 ·
Ard, thanks for the info. I may give the cleaning a try before replace the whole tank

this is my first 2nd BMW, we sold the other one before the factory warranty was over. My current X5 is only 3 years old, and frankly it has been trouble free for the past 95k miles. so far the only issue I have are emission related issues. I purchased the extended maintenance, so really no other out of the pocket expense besides the tires. Had EGR high pressure tank replaced around 79k with most of covered under warranty. I guess since I may consider keeping the car or trade in for another X5, I will look into the BWMCCA. Thanks for the info Quackbury.
 
#18 ·
I agree with Ard in theory and principle, but does anyone know if this sensor is accessible? I don't see any of the individual components of the active tank (pump, sensors, etc) in the parts list so my impression is that it is a sealed unit. When we had our problem it started as a sensor fault (I think temp) in the active tank. My dealer initially tried topping off the DEF to clear any crystallization on the sensor, but that proved to be only a temporary fix and not the route cause of the problem.

I agree wholeheartedly with BMW CCA membership for all of the reasons stated. However, you will usually find greater parts price discounts online than you will get due to BMW CCA membership.

Cheers
 
#20 ·
Hi Jim. Where did you find that information? I suspected that BMW has updated the active tank and pump because our pump now runs for 20-30 seconds after the engine is shut down. It never did this before the active tank was replaced. I have not been able to find specific information indicating an updated part. I am aware of (and participated in) the emissions recall campaign, but the DEF active tank was not part of that.

Cheers.
 
#23 ·
Just a quick update. My is 1/2010 build date. I emailed the service bulletin to my SA last week and asked him if by any chance my active tank can be repaired under the warranty since BWM is aware of the issue. I got email from my SA today stated that he got the repair approved as warranty work and I can bring the car in anytime to get it done. I am very happy that BMWNA stepped up and make good on it. Good job to my SA as well.
Thanks again for all the helpful infos.

Chao.
 
#29 ·
Just a quick update. My is 1/2010 build date. I emailed the service bulletin to my SA last week and asked him if by any chance my active tank can be repaired under the warranty since BWM is aware of the issue. I got email from my SA today stated that he got the repair approved as warranty work and I can bring the car in anytime to get it done. I am very happy that BMWNA stepped up and make good on it. Good job to my SA as well..
Hi Pluto, would you mind telling who your SA and dealer was? You can PM me if you don't want to post it here.

Our 2010 is also a 1/2010 build and even though we've had no issues (knock on wood) I'd like to have the SA/dealer info handy if I ever run into this problem outside of warranty.

Thanks!
 
#26 ·
Give you SA a gift card for a lunch somewhere.....
 
#27 ·
Hi I'm new here. I have a CEL on. The SA (Barron BMW in Kansas City) checked it for me when I had my oil changed. He didn't tell me what the code #was, but said this was the issue.
Can any OBDII reader work to heck the code?

Mine is an 09 with the CCC, I'm not sure the build date. When I get back home (gone for Eastor) I think I will call BMWNA and see if I can get them to do this TSB on mine.
 
#30 ·
Finn, United BMW at Gwinnett is my service dealer, my SA is Al Powlis. He has been great to deal with. This is the second times now he helped me get the warranty work done after the warranty period. Both are related to emission.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Bimmer App
 
#38 ·
I had the issue with 4BAC.
At first I was trying to flush the tank with the water. Didn't help.
Then I fill the tank with warm water and left for few hours. Then drained and repeat the procedure during couple days.
Then refilled the tank with urea fluid. CEL was gone since then (few weeks already).
My idea is the following. Urea liquid crystalize after contact with air.
If the tank is somewhat empty, let's say half) and plug is not tight the fresh air will come into the tank and urea will crystalize on everything above the level blocking the normal work of the sensors. Water dissolves this crystallization getting everything back to normal (however takes time). If my guess is right - my advice would be to keep the level of urea fluid as max as possible and make sure the plug is tight.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
 
#43 ·
X5 DEF tank issue

I had the issue with 4BAC.
At first I was trying to flush the tank with the water. Didn't help.
Then I fill the tank with warm water and left for few hours. Then drained and repeat the procedure during couple days.
Then refilled the tank with urea fluid. CEL was gone since then (few weeks already).
My idea is the following. Urea liquid crystalize after contact with air.
If the tank is somewhat empty, let's say half) and plug is not tight the fresh air will come into the tank and urea will crystalize on everything above the level blocking the normal work of the sensors. Water dissolves this crystallization getting everything back to normal (however takes time). If my guess is right - my advice would be to keep the level of urea fluid as max as possible and make sure the plug is tight.

Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Thanks for the information, PIXLFIX. :) Where did you get the idea to flush the tank with water? I need to read my manual and/or buy as separate DIY manual.... It would make sense that this issue (crystalization) is probably also due to the fact that during the Maintenance Warranty period, my SA would not fill the DEF tank until the levels were low and the light prompted him to do so. Looking at another thread, I saw an individual that was billed $300, because the DEF tank needed to be refilled prior to the first scheduled oil change,...and I believe the mileage he/she stated was about 5k. Sounds like they got shafted, with a truck that was not filled upon delivery.
 
#39 ·
^^ Interesting. Thx for posting.

If indeed this stuff is crystallizing for whatever reason, that can impact the flow rate through the nozzle as well as the various sensors, causing spurious codes.

I expect the DIY phase we are entering will develop diaggnostic protocols and fixes for this stuff....

A
 
#40 ·
The crystallization theory holds some water. When dealer spilled urea on my engine a couple times, it left these stains of crusty nature. If I tried, I could peel some of it off with a knife. I initially thought the plastic and metal got corroded by some acid.

P.S. 49,500 miles on my 35d. DIY phase, here I come!
Interesting information that I hopefully won't need in next 50k miles.
 
#41 ·
I am in the industrial chemical sales. Some of the chemicals I sell crystallize fairly quickly leaving a solid residue behind. This presents problems especially in the storage tanks where residue builds up on the walls as the chemical level goes down and is exposed to air. Then the next fill-up flushes the residue off the wall, or it falls off by itself, dropping at the bottom of the tank eventually getting into the outlet of the tank. In most cases a filter at the outlet will take care of the issue, but sometimes if the residue build-up is heavy, it can block/restrict the outlet flow causing issues down the process.

So the idea of keeping the tank as full as possible at all times is definitely a good one IMO.
 
#45 ·
Quackbury: You bring up a great point! When BMW replaced the CATs, it was very close to 50k. I remember, communicating that I was glad the it happened when it did, or else it would have been a costly repair. During that conversation, I vaguely recall my SA mentioning something about some parts being cover up to 80k. When I asked about a "warranty" (assuming he was referencing a Powertrain), he stated that the only warranty BMW has is the 4yr/50k and the optional extended and did not recount the previous conversation about the coverage of parts up to 80k. I clearly need to do some research. Hence, the reason I joined this forum a few days ago. The emission warranty you speak of, is it BMW specific or for all cars? I intend to perform google search... But, if you have general resources that I can readily access that would be most appreciated. FYI- state specific , NC.
 
#46 ·
@ Quackbury- Maybe that 80k was in covering the new parts that were placed on the vehicle at the time of repair.... As, I do remember asking about the warranty on the parts/work performed at 49,723 miles. Nonetheless, thanks for the information. Look forward to any additional resources you have.
 
#49 ·
Found this:

* Subject to change, the following states have adopted and are enforcing California emission warranty regulations:
*
- Passenger Car & Light-duty Trucks (up to 8,500 pounds GVWR) - Arizona, California, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington (NOTE: New York adopted California emissions standards, but not the California Emissions Warranty; the Federal Emission Control Warranty applies to all non-PZEV vehicles in New York)
Just for reference
 
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