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I drove a Buick

6K views 36 replies 20 participants last post by  kocsis 
#1 ·
Today I brought in my Porsche for service and got a 2011 Buick LaCrosse rental from Enterprise. Drove better than I thought. I can see why some people compare its steering to the new 5-er. Obviously, the Buick is much looser, vaguer, drifty-er in the steering, but in some way it reminds me of the F10 steering, even the hydraulic one in the 550ix. Does not feel like your car is on rails, as did my 2001 M5. It is vague and somewhat loose. But admittedly that's an unfair comparison - maybe the new F10 M5 will feel more like the "Ultimate Driving Machine" than "Joy".....
 
#2 ·
Well, one can always compare the F10 to the LaCrosse, but if the Buick is MUCH looser, vaguer and drifty-er than the F10, that settles it for me.
 
#5 ·
The extra 40K buys a lot of things other than steering feel. The 1 series and the 3 series are closer to 30K and the steering is tight. It is not that BMW cannot make a 5 with tighter steering... It is just that they chose not to as a business strategy.
 
#4 ·
It's a front wheel drive car. It's a gussied up Malibu.
 
#6 ·
Actually, it's not. It's a re-designed Opel Insignia. Based on the Epsilon II, not the Epsilon platform. Much improved vs. the Malibu.
 
#7 ·
The Lacrosse seems to be quite a car. I test drove the Enclave and was quite impressed.

I do love the purposeful jab though. "Obviously, the Buick is much looser, vaguer, drifty-er in the steering- but it reminds me of the F10" LOL. There is no comparison in steering between the two....
 
#9 ·
Thank God I read your post in time to cancel delivery of my 550i which was scheduled to be delivered in 3 weeks. After driving 7 different BMW's over the past 30 years I'm going out first thing tomorrow to buy the Buick of my dreams. By the way, went to lunch today with a friend in his brand new Porsche Panamera. Boy is he going to be jealous when he sees my new Buick.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I pushed my 550i xDrive today on the same winding road that I routinely drove my 540i sport package, E39 M5, and 650i sport package. What I noticed was that in sport mode and shifting the sport tranmission manually, the steering tightened up and with even with just the performance snow tires the car felt just as tight or tighter than my other cars. The feedback and precision of the steering was excellent. The car feels very different when pushed hard than it does in casual driving. So, it may feel "Buick like" in sedate driving, but it certainly feels even more sporting and BMW like than my previous BMWs when pushed hard. And I drove those BMWs every day for a total of 11 years, so I think I have a good basis of comparison, especially since it was on the same stretch of very familiar road in hard driving. It very much handled like it was "on rails". The xDrive definitely is superior in handling to RWD, it really feels like the car is "on rails". I suspect that when I get my max performance summer tires on in the Spring it will be even more so.

But the car is much more refined in normal driving and the steering is lighter at low speeds and low lateral g forces. I think that is what people are experiencing when they say it is Buick or Lexus like. I just think and feel that it will blow the socks off my previous BMWs in hard driving.
 
#18 ·
I completely agree with this assessment. I have a 535 ix sports automatic transmission and I can adjust between normal, sport and sport plus. It doesn't have ars like dhp but it does tighten the steering and suspension. Its like a having a car with multiple personalities. I feel that people are mistaking easier steering and smoother driving at slow speeds as feeling disconnected but its quite the opposite. I think its a amazing that the car can go from luxury comfort to a sports sedan that feels like its on rails. Some suggest that the E60 was superior in steering and handling but I can assure you after almost a month with my F10, its not the case. People tend to criticize something new that they are not used to but I think in time most will learn to appreciate the subtleties that make this a great car.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Traded in

Seriously. I drove a 2010 911 at Paul Miller. It is not the same car I remember driving back in the late 1980s. A friend of mine has a Mustang GT which is somewhat like the Carrera. Then again, the Mustang GT is a faster car than the Porsche and has more horsepower. Not to mention that the Mustang handles awesomely. So if you bought a Porsche, you could have saved yourself about $50K by getting a Mustang GT. Maybe trade your Porsche in at your local Ford dealer. You might even have some change left over to buy a Buick Lacrosse that you are so fond of driving too.
 
#16 ·
My point was that there is an interesting convergence between cars, American cars are starting to drive more like European cars and European spotrts sedans are starting to move in the direction of softness. BMW's shift from the "ultimate driving machine" slogan to "Joy" is not accidental. Nonetheless, there is of course no comparison. The 550ix is a great car and I enjoy driving it.

true about the current Porsche 911. However, I actually think that Porsche has maintained the gap between its enthusiast feel and the American muscle cars. I have driven a number of Mustangs and I think they are terrible. Worse, for what they pretend to be, than the Buick which is pretty true to its mission....
 
#22 ·
Has BMW actually dropped "The Ultimate Driving Machine"?? That would be horrendous. This lame "Joy" schtick is very weak, and will get old fast.

BMW dropping "T.U.D.M" reminds me of when M-B dropped "Engineered Like No Other Car In The World". We all know what happened directly after that, for about a decade or so too long. :mad:
 
#17 ·
Before I ordered my new F10 I actually drove a LaCrosse as it's had some good reviews (especially with the turbo now just coming out). It wasn't half bad. At the price vs the BMW, it would be a good value.

That said, you'll notice I didn't buy it. I couldn't bring myself to drive a Buick. I also tried out the CTS but didn't fit in it.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I find all this talk about steering feel etc to be pretty comical. Steering "feel" has nothing to do with handling limits of the car. For those who are complaining have you taken the 535i or 550i to the limit and gotten in trouble because you are about to break traction and the car didn't communicate that to you? If not, how are you defining "numb" steering? Are you judging it by how "tight" the steering wheel feel? The 550i I test drove was not bad at all and I've owned and driven some cars that have very good steering.
 
#20 ·
I find all this talk about steering feel etc to be pretty comical. 1st of all steering "feel" has nothing to do with handling limits of the car. For those who are complaining have you taken the 535i or 550i to the limit and gotten in trouble because you are about to break traction and the car didn't communicate that to you? If not, how are you defining "numb" steering? Are you judging it by how "tight" the steering wheel feel? The 550i I test drove was not bad at all and I've owned and driven some cars that have very good steering.
I agree, how many people on this forum get a chance to take their car to the limit? Turn off the traction control and take the car to the limit, I promise it will communicate that the car is about to break traction to any driver. Its change people dont like. They fear it, dont understand it, and put it down.
 
#21 · (Edited)
While I have never taken the F10 or the E60 to the limit, driving the F10 fairly aggressively over the same roads traveled with the E60 indicates to me that the F10 is a more capable car. The F10 just feels more composed taking an on ramp that I particularly like at the same or slightly higher speed than I did in the E60.

I also drove an F10 535i with the standard setup (no sport anything) at BMW's Ultimate Driving Event, and I drove it hard. With tires screeching, the car took turns, braking and acceleration in stride. During the hot laps, the instructors went faster that the participants could, and the 535 breezed through the course with ease, dynamic stability control off. The F10 was bred on the Ring; BMW says that the F10 outperforms it's predecessor, and I do not doubt it.
 
#24 ·
Nah, they dropped emphasis on quality (like MB) in favor of "customer experience." since ads are a kind of external mission statement, we know this will impact corporate culture, as it did at MB when the engineer-focus was abandoned. Maybe the focus on driving will be adopted by another auto company.....though this world is moving away from intrinsic quality and toward user experience, much of it virtual.
 
#25 ·
So you think there is less quality evident in your F10 as compared to previous BMW's you have owned? I disagree, the quality is ratcheted up, IMO, as far as materials, finishing, drive, you name it. Even if it is true that they may be focusing ads on another aspect, I don't think that has a direct relationship to a quality change, especially one in a negative direction. In today's world, that would actually be suicide in the markektplace.
 
#26 ·
It's a different kind of quality. I suspect that today's car is not going to last as long and is not bult to the same robust standards as the E39, just as today's Porsche 911s or MBs are not expected to be as long lasting as the prior "classics." The earlier generation cars may not feel as luxurious, or have so many optional suspension settings, but they were engineered to be fundamentally great cars. Now, some of those same objectives, such as suspension, are achieved through the use of electronics, which in my mind is a bit of an artificial solution. Driveability is "built on", not "built in."
 
#27 ·
Interesting speculation. But simply that, speculation. No hard data to support this conclusion. Check out the actual repair statistics for BMW over the past eight years in Consumer Reports. My personal experience with owning five consecutive 8 cylinder BMWs since 1992 is that the construction of each generation has been more "robust" and reliable than the previous one. The electronics have certainly improved over the years for BMWs. I have no reason to suspect the F10 will be any different, and certainly no hard data to support this. So, that's "pure speculation" on my part as well.
 
#28 ·
Nowadays we have better metal alloys, better glass with UV protection, better paints and coatings, etc. etc. One would think that cars would last longer when properly cared for, no?
 
#29 ·
I think the real issue is the longevity of expensive and vital electronic components. It remains to be seen how it'll go with them. The best indicator so far is how things are going with the E39, which stopped production six or seven years ago and of which there are a good many examples around. A look at the boards should give a pretty good idea of how they're holding up. I know there are vulnerable spots, such as the camshaft position sensors and O2 sensors.
 
#32 ·
Maybe certain parts fail but are they very expensive to replace? I friend of mine has a 2002 540i sport he bought 18 months ago with around 70,000 miles. He now has 101,000 miles. He has ABSOLUTELY ZERO repairs, only normal maintainence.

All this speculation with no data whatsoever is just that, pure speculation. Electronics are just microprocessors and senors, they just are not that expensive. Depreciation of $10,000 a year in the first few years of ownership of a new BMW is what IS expensive and is hard data.
 
#34 · (Edited)
To kocis

I have 140k miles on my 2006 Audi A8L and its much more reliable and robust than older Audis which I never ever owned due to poor dependability. This Audi is a bank vault and has not had any problems other than small warranty repairs. Also, my 2008 ML350 has ranked 80k miles on it and it still good as new. So don't tell us that newer cars are not as built as the older ones. They are much much superior than those older german cars with all those glitches, engine, oil, transmission problems. Unless you have better objective data to show that older ones are better, they will be hard to come by to prove your point.
 
#35 ·
We'll all see....My long-term BMW head mechanic said the E60 M5 was much more trouble than the E39 M5 because of added complexity; same for my Porsche mechanic regarding the 993 vs 997. They both said (and one of them also teaches auto mechanics, and is considered a very knowledgeable guy) that the current trend is to replace elegant engineering with electronic solutions, which over time have a tendency to break down. Nonetheless, I am driving the new 997 and 550ix and so far am very satisfied.

I did have a horrific experience with the old Audi 5000, and know that the new Audis are much more reliable.
 
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