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FA Changes required for NBT Retrofit

369K views 1K replies 108 participants last post by  Horsty 
#1 ·
Hi Guys,

I wondered if anyone had a chassis no. or FA so I could note the changes required for the NBT retrofit?
I presume it would require the addition of 6NL & the removal of 633, 6FL, 6NF, 6VA & 6VC.
609 & 6NR would remain & the build date be changed to 09/12
 
#2 ·
633 (or 639 in the U.S./CND), 6FL, and 6VC are gone, apparently all replaced by 6NL by itself.

6VA is a weird one though. My understanding is that with factory CIC, it is normally not required in the VO, and is used only in instances where CIC is replaced or retrofitted to force recognition of the Head Unit for coding. So, this would normally not be in either CIC or NBT VO's, but if you retrofit NBT it may be required.

609 and 6NR remain, but so does 6NF as that is not standard equipment on NBT equipped cars.

I will PM you a VIN for a U.S. equipped 2013 535i with NBT.
 
#3 ·
Cheers Shawn,

It is a strange one with 6VA as my 06/12 build has 609 from factory but also has 6VA in the FA.
From looking into ETK it seems the 6VA option maybe used during crossover build dates just like 6VB was used in the e60 between 09/08 & 11/08 when UK cars had the new ZBE but retained the CCC until 11/08.

Weird thing is when I adapted my FA & changed the date to 07/12 esys still showed HU_CIC & CMB_MEDIA instead f replacing them with HU_NBT!
 
#4 ·
Yes, as I wrote, 6VA is a weird one. It is not in my 10/10 build F10, so I don't know. :dunno:

In E-Sys, you are changing Zeitkriterium=0712 and not the Datum field I take it.

Now, I do not think FA in E-Sys is Dynamic at all, in that changing your production date and an Option Code that it will automatically remove unnecessary Option Codes or add other Dependant Option Codes. What I would expect though is that when you try and calculate FP with an incompatible Option Code, FP will error out.

When you say E-Sys still showed CIC, I assume that since the VO does not specify actual ECU's, your are referring to your SVT. This I would expect as the SVT is reading your actual ECU's on the MOST Bus, and for that you have CIC still, correct? If a new Head Unit was connected, only then would I expect to see NBT in your SVT. I would also expect that if you tried to VO Code HU_CIC with a VO Prodcution date of 07/12 that it would error out as that should not be a compatible ECU for that Prodcution Date.
 
#5 ·
Yes, it is the time criteria date I changed, you would hope the esys was dynamic so it knows which ecus should be installed based on VO & Build date as this was a basic part of NCSEXPERT.
I am using an FA.xml file I saved when I connected to the car & trying to edit it away from the car, you would think when you calculate the FP that would be when esys compares the data & lists the correct ecu's

I have pm'd you my FA
 
#6 ·
Yes, I think when you calculate FP, it will give you an error if the options and or date have some sort of incompatibility, but it won't automatically reconfigure your FA for you.

If you are not connected to your car, then what do you mean it still shows HU_CIC? FA will only show 609 Navigation, but it won't show the actual ECU.
 
#7 ·
Sorry, I was reading my stored SVT which will obviously show the ECU's it has read from the VCM.
So unlike NCS where it lists the correct ecu's based on build date & options you list in the FA, in esys do you have to manually add them via SVT-Editor if you cannot read them from the car I wonder?
 
#8 ·
I have never used NCS Expert, so I do not know what it shows.

In E-Sys, when you read VCM, it will poll the busses, and show the actual ECU's on the car. If you were to remove HU_CIC and connect HU_NBT, and re-read VCM, you would then see NBT in place of CIC, and it would likely show no CAFD until you add one and code the module.

While it may be possible with E-Sys, I do not know of any way to change the VO Option Codes and / or Date, and have it show required ECU's to support that VO.
 
#11 ·
Now I am confused. The connections on the back of NBT are the same as CIC, although with some additional ones added. If you swap NBT for CIC, why do you need different cables from 6NF to NBT?
 
#12 ·
On F30 cars with 6NL and no NBT, it seems 6VC is no longer a separate option on the VO; however, those cars physically still have a Combox unit.

With NBT, I think the Combox unit is physically built into the NBT Head Unit, so you will have a Combox no matter what with NBT.
 
#13 ·
Yes, with the combox being built into the NBT, the USB cables & aux audio & video wires which are currently running to the combox in the trunk will now connect at the NBT, also the mic wires & data links to the ACSM for SOS will also need to go up to the NBT.
If you look at the attached pic you will see there are now 5 HSD ports (USB Port, 6NF Cradle, CID, USB in Glovebox, Ethernet) & an extra fakra for the Bluetooth antenna.
I am waiting on my ISTA 2.48 HDD so I can check the diagrams to confirm.

 
#15 · (Edited)
Yes, the NBT Connections are this:

HSD Connections:

Purple = APIX Connector for CID
Light Green = USB3 for Telematics Control Box (TCB)
Curry = USB2 for 6NF Base Plate
Beige = USB1 for 6FL Aux-In USB
Orange = Ethernet for RSE

* NBT has no Glovebox USB data port. The USB Port in the Center Armrest now does data too.

FAKRA Connections:

Beige = Bluetooth Arial
Burgandy = WLAN Arial
Curry = DAB Band 3
Green = DAB Band L
White = FM2
Black = AM / FM1
Blue = GPS Arial
 
#42 ·
Hi, I just upgraded NBT for my F30.
Problem is now I can not use USB data port in Armrest box.
The white cable can not fit to Beige port

...

I try to cut some egde around white jack and I can fit to Beige port, but USB data still not avaiable...
You are trying it in the beige HSD connector #12, and not the beige Fakra connector #15, correct?

Electronics Technology Electronic device Electronics accessory Computer component


If you upgraded from CIC Unit, the HSD Connector is identical as the old connector #2:

Product Electronics Technology Electronic device Machine


If you updated from HU_Champ, then I don't know what type connector you have in your car, although I would be surprised if it wasn't also HSD.

In any event, you need to get a good connection to the car. If you were able to modify the White connector to fit and make a good connection, and USB Port does not work, I am not sure why.

Do you still have 6FL in your VO?
 
#16 · (Edited)
The extra plug above the main plug are FBAS 3 and FBAS 4 inputs for extra Video.

Right below that at the top of the main connector are inputs for Speakers and Telephone Mute.

Then below that on the main connector are inputs for Microphone 1, Microphone 2, Aux In, FBAS 1, and FBAS 2.
 
#17 ·
Thanks bud, do you have the pinouts for the small plug at the top?
If the telematic functions are now carried out by a TCB module then the cabling from the existing Combox telematics will have to be routed to the TCB.
Also I will need to find out where the mic wires run to!

I wonder if BIMMER-TECH or BIMMERRETROFIT are designing an emulator to allow the use of original Combox with NBT rather than having to re-cable everything & buy a TCB as well?
 
#18 · (Edited)
I'm sorry, but I don't have any of the actual schematics or a pinout list. I think in most cases, the Top Connection wont be used, unless maybe you have all the Cameras, (Rear / Top & Side, and Night Vision), plus 6NF/6NR and DVD.

I don't know what the Pro Retrofitters will do with regard to an existing Combox. If they made use of it, I don't think it would be an emulator, rather just some plug and play harness, but this would require disabling the built-in NBT Combox, which I doubt is possible.

I know they are offering an Emulator, same as they do for CIC retrofits, for Navigation and Voice Recognition, but still I assume with the emulator you have to buy all new FSC Codes for other functions such as BMW Apps, Sat Radio, Night Vision, Speed Limit Information, etc.
 
#21 ·
So have you already ordered an NBT unit?

What are your plans for all your FSC Codes?
 
#23 ·
You don't also have BMW Apps?

So, if you don't mind me asking, how much will the NBT unit cost, and what is the cost of the FSC codes?
 
#27 ·
So will the new NBT unit be programmed with your VIN, and in doing so, will you be able to just download and use your existing FSC Codes for Nav, Voice, and SLI, or do you need to actually buy new FSC Codes?
 
#26 ·
Damn. That is about $1130 USD, which is pretty cheap. With labor and FSC Codes though, it gets to be an expensive proposition.
 
#28 ·
The unit will come with the sw on & will require coding to my vin & then the FSC's loading in, I was going to attempt to load them with esys, if not maybe ask Bimmertech to do it, I'm still trying to find out if the FSC's are constructed in the same way for NBT as they are for CIC otherwise it might turn into a REALLY expensive exercise!!!
 
#29 · (Edited)
No, I am pretty sure FSC codes will be identical. If you can salvage yours and reuse them, this retrofit is not bad cost wise.

The folks that did CCC to CIC retrofits, they had no choice but to buy an emulator and or FSC Codes, as there old CCC had no FSC Codes I don't think.
 
#31 ·
I'll believe it only when it is confirmed. Even thought the Head Unit is made by a different Manufacturer, it is made to BMW Specifications, which I doubt changed in regard to the FSC Code.
 
#33 ·
If you have HU_NBT and:

Option Code: 6NL BMW Assist with enhanced Bluetooth and USB, then it includes a 3G SIM Card in it.

Option Code: 6NK GSM preperation with USB and Bluetooth connectivity, then you have Media only and no Telematics.
 
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