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So now that the F30 has been out a while..

49K views 399 replies 46 participants last post by  Rover 
#1 ·
Thoughts on f30 vs E90? I presume that many of you have been on test drives, had loaners, etc by now.

I just spent a week in an F30, do I have somerliminary opinions.
 
#5 ·
I had mixed feelings. I loved the power of the turbo 4. Once BMW gets a handle on the NVH issues, I think the poweplant will be a gem.

Loved the smooth, slick AT.

Ride comfort, body control, general vehicle dynamics all true BMW. Excellent all around.

Seating is even more comfy than the excellent E90 seats.

Love the exterior styling.

Hated the numb, overly boosted EPS. It is not as horrible as what I have experienced in some recent Acura sedans but still vague.

I think the cabin has taken a huge step down in material quality. The center console is a cheap plastic and lots of exposed edges and badly aligned panels. This is easily the least impressive BMW interior I have experienced. There are also many head scratching ergonomic snafus.

The engine cutoff feature is a bad joke. A worse idea than RFTs.
 
#4 ·
We were planning to by a new 328 but have lost the urge after seeing, driving loaners, and a little bad taste from my E60 535i and F10 535i.

My wife is big on styling and doesn't see much difference between the new and her LCI refreshed 2009 328i with the 17 in wheel option.

BTW we just replaced the runflat tires on that and it is like a new car driving so much better and more quietly.

My last two guinea pig first released 5 series cars gave me multiple HPFP failures (E60) and delayed throttle response (F10) that the dealer and BMWNA refused to address with a known software update per a documented SIB.

Now you also have to test Start / Stop as well as the new 4 cyl turbo and given BMW's reluctance, at least in my case, to address issues I'll think I'll pass on another beta product. :thumbdwn:
 
#8 · (Edited)
I'm not sure they are going to eliminate the NVH sourcing from the 4 cyl. engine, at least the V part of it. [Edit: The following italicised sentence is incorrect but I'll leave it in so that readers will understand later posts: BMW opted not to use counter rotating balance shafts to dynamically balance an engine which otherwise cannot really be balanced like the in-line 6. They claim it was for weight saving reasons, but my guess is that it was really the cost they wanted to avoid.]
Look for more exotic valved motor mounts with silicone filling to reduce the vibration. At least the perceived part of the vibration.
In regard to the auto stop/start feature; it's my understanding that this is a defeatable function. A press of a button is supposed to shut it off. No?
Electronic (direct coupled electric motor dirven) power steering is the devil's tool and does not belong on any car ever hoping to be mentioned in the same sentence as "sports car". Luxo touring barge, yes. 3'er, no.
 
#9 ·
I'm not sure they are going to eliminate the NVH sourcing from the 4 cyl. engine, at least the V part of it. BMW opted not to use counter rotating balance shafts to dynamically balance an engine which otherwise cannot really be balanced like the in-line 6. They claim it was for weight saving reasons, but my guess is that it was really the cost they wanted to avoid.
Look for more exotic valved motor mounts with silicone filling to reduce the vibration. At least the perceived part of the vibration.
In regard to the auto stop/start feature; it's my understanding that this is a defeatable function. A press of a button is supposed to shut it off. No?
Electronic (direct coupled electric motor dirven) power steering is the devil's tool and does not belong on any car ever hoped to be mentioned in the same sentence as "sports car". Luxo touring barge, yes. 3'er, no.
No doubt BMW is being corporately driven to keep costs down and is being forced by governments (EU, US and others) to be eco minded.

EPS is much maligned but is actually one of the "new things" that I really don't have a problem with. It's non-parasitic on the engine and contributes to better fuel economy.

Now the clutched alternator that decouples on acceleration and "brakes" when slowing puts adequate charging at risk (on a $450 battery) and leaves me wondering how much that little clutch baby is gonna cost when the warning light comes on.

My S2000 has EPS and the steering is precise.
 
#14 ·
Somewhat on topic:

Regarding the auto-start/stop: I absolutely cannot see the value of this with an AT transmission. For the record, we've had two european loaners both MT (a VW and a Ford SUV) which had the auto-start/stop function. The ONLY good thing about it with an MT is that you can't kill the engine with bad clutching. That said, if you are used to driving an MT, when the engine shuts off it is very disconcerting. I understand the theoretical concept, but in practice? MEH!!
 
#16 ·
Somewhat on topic:

Regarding the auto-start/stop: I absolutely cannot see the value of this with an AT transmission. For the record, we've had two european loaners both MT (a VW and a Ford SUV) which had the auto-start/stop function. The ONLY good thing about it with an MT is that you can't kill the engine with bad clutching. That said, if you are used to driving an MT, when the engine shuts off it is very disconcerting. I understand the theoretical concept, but in practice? MEH!!
That's the distilled opinion of most journalists who've driven the car. My opinion? It's a gimmick which makes the mpg figure higher when run through the standard test sequence, but one which will be disabled by most drivers in the real world.
 
#17 ·
I've griped that BMW has lost it's way, and I feel that still holds true. BMW is using ///M as a marketing tool. Ever since they've become #1 selling premium luxury car, they've tossed everything about 'The Ultimate Driving Machine' out the window. Material used in their cars are horrible compared to the competition. Reliability is at an all time low. The next M3/M4 are also rumored to have electro-mechanical steering.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I don't agree with you. BMW doesn't exactly have any kind of stranglehold on the number one spot and they're not under any illusion that they do. As far as materials go, the materials in the F3x are as good as those in the E9x, which are as good as those in the E46, which were substantially better than those in the E36.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Had an F30 335 loaner this week. Concur on the steering and the auto start/stop...good god, the "a-s-s" is awful. I actually stalled the car at the first red light...ha, then hit the off switch. It does kick back on whenever you re-start, but there's apparently a new software update you can request from the dealer to have it default "off". The whole "a-s-s" is a dumb idea, IMO, just something to please the EPA pricks.

Anyway, I would probably give a slight advantage to exterior styling to my E90...just do not like that straight line on the hood of the new F30. And other than the front profile, it doesn't seem to be that much different exterior wise to me b/tw the two. I prefer the layout of the interior in the F30 compared to the E90, especially in iDrive models. I guess I like the "iPad" look better than the double hump. Seats seemed close to the same, although the loaner was not sport, so softer cushioning, and hence an advantage to my E90...I like the harder seat cushioning. The new auto trans seemed much smoother than in my E90, even in "sport" mode, and ride was softer too. Again, attribute most of that to the lux vs msport diff b/tw the cars.

Overall, the new F30 is nice, but isn't enough to get me to want to trade "up" to the newer model when looking at 335 to 335.

My neighbor has the F30 328i sport and I like a lot, but damn it does sound like a diesel. Being a Honda fan, I'm partial to 4 cylinders, but that engine noise would bother the hell out of me. Love the newer electronic gizmos...and normal, "american" cup holders.
 
#29 · (Edited)
I am surprised there isn't more criticism of the F30 interior. The e90 is pretty far from the class leaders in that regard, but the F30 just feels cheap.

On the flip side, BMW still does seating better than any other make.
 
#40 ·
I'm not crazy about the iDrive screen on the F30 - not terrible but not as well integrated into the rest of the interior as I would like it to be, but other than that I don't mind the interior styling at all. I can't comment on the quality of materials or the fit and finish as I have never even sat in an F30 let alone ridden in or driven one.

CA
 
#41 ·
Two things about the interior I didn't like, the screen looked an afterthought, the shifter was designed for someone who likes to sit there and admire, rather drive the damn thing.

I know the shifter is handed down from 5, 7 series. Still don't like it in the 3. The 3 should not be a 5, minus a few inches.
 
#47 ·
The location of the GPS screen and the sloping dash on the passenger side are misses for me. But, other than that, the interior looks similar to the previous generation.

I also hate the shifter which is similar to the one in my 335is. I would much rather be able to slide it into P/N/R like the older style shifters.
 
#48 ·
The interior seemed really nice to me when I sat in it - seemed like a base model. The M Sport (or maybe it's the Sport) looks awesome in pictures.

I hated the E90 interior in photos but once driving one it seemed pretty nice and high quality. The non-iDrive model kind of sucks though.
 
#50 ·
I hated the E90 interior in photos but once driving one it seemed pretty nice and high quality. The non-iDrive model kind of sucks though.
I hated the E90 dash when I first saw it at the car show, just before it came on the market, in 2005. I couldn't believe BMW made such a huge departure from the E30, E36, and E46.

FWIW I also thought some of the materials on the F30 were significantly cheaper than those in the E90.
This is virtually verbatim what E46 people said about the E90. Some still do.
 
#49 ·
FWIW I also thought some of the materials on the F30 were significantly cheaper than those in the E90. Specifically the buttons and knobs.
I also thought the doors felt less solid.
Does this make the E90 better? I wouldn't necessarily say that.

I will say that I debated whether to buy my E90 or wait for the F30. While the F30 has some things going for it, I don't regret not waiting at all.
 
#52 · (Edited)
The"single buttress" is a design element right out of the 5er and the new stunningly gorgeous 6er. The iDrive screen, that whole dash design language, is straight out of the 6er, one of the most outstandingly beautiful designs BMW has ever penned.

The design and location of the iDrive screen makes perfect sense and is the exact opposite of an afterthought. It is purposefully and carefully designed to be exactly where it is. It is now a feature that will be used every single time you are in the car, as is true with virtually every new car on the market today, and it is positioned so that it is perfectly in the driver's sight with a quick, easy glance. What makes no sense is a screen that deploys and retracts every time the car is turned on and off. An after thought is exactly what I think of when I see the retracting screens in the A6 and A8. It's as if when they finished the dash design they suddenly realized, "oh, we need a screen. Oh well, since we didn't design a place for one we'll just stick it here and make it open and retract"......every frikken time the car is started and turned off.
This is the interior of the 6






Here is the 5






And the E92






750iL


And the F30
 
#53 ·
If tt would put down his mug of BMW Kool-Aid for a minute and compare the 6'er with the F30 interior he would note that the perfectly placed nav screen in the 6'er does not look like a stuck-on after thought. He would also notice that the "buttress" on the 6'er looks like a flowing design line, rather than an anti cowl shake brace with a cover on it, like it it does on the F30.
I will agree with tt on this point; the 6 is well thought out and the next 100 large I have sitting around collecting dust in CD's is going for a 6 series, an M6 would be quite nice indeed.
 
#56 ·
the 6 is well thought out and the next 100 large I have sitting around collecting dust in CD's is going for a 6 series, an M6 would be quite nice indeed.
:thumbup: I think the reason the nav screen looks more integrated on the 6 is that it is more in proportion with the rest of the dash, especially looking toward the passenger side. The Nav screen obviously has to be of a nominal size to be functional, but the 3's dash is not as expansive as the 6's so the result is the proportion is a bit off.

Why, oh why, on the F30 can't they manage to get the A-pillars/headliner to match the rest of the interior?



It's obvious they can do it on the 6er. Just doing that would go a long way in unifying
things and give it a "well thought out" look.

 
#62 ·
:thumbup: I think the reason the nav screen looks more integrated on the 6 is that it is more in proportion with the rest of the dash, especially looking toward the passenger side. The Nav screen obviously has to be of a nominal size to be functional, but the 3's dash is not as expansive as the 6's so the result is the proportion is a bit off.

Why, oh why, on the F30 can't they manage to get the A-pillars/headliner to match the rest of the interior?



It's obvious they can do it on the 6er. Just doing that would go a long way in unifying
things and give it a "well thought out"
See, again, I like the lighter headliner and the contrast with the saddle and the black.

A saddle headliner would make the cabin too orange and black too like a crypt. The F30 interiors look spacious and bright for the most part. BMW was too safe on the inside. I like the fact that they're shaking it up a bit.

BJ
 
#67 ·
See, again, I like the lighter headliner and the contrast with the saddle and the black.

A saddle headliner would make the cabin too orange and black too like a crypt. The F30 interiors look spacious and bright for the most part. BMW was too safe on the inside. I like the fact that they're shaking it up a bit.

BJ
An anthracite headliner would look great! In reality it does not make the car feel crypt-like at all. It gives the interior a very rich feel. It completes the contrasts.
 
#60 · (Edited)
If you compare the F30 with the E9x it appears to me that the iDrive screen is as much in the drivers line of site on the E9x as it is on the F30.
I never even noticed the "buttress" before this thread so I guess it did not bother me. Somewhat unique but I don't find it unattactive.

Of the pictures I posted I like the 6 interior the best. It is even better in person. I had a 650 for a test drive a few weeks ago and the interior is very upscale feeling compared to a 3 Series. A friend of mine is replacing his E92 M3 with a 650i. He hasn't received it yet but he may get it this week. I will probably see him Saturday and get a chance to check out the car. Not sure what color combo or options he went for.

CA
 
#64 ·
Just to clarify, I wasn't criticizing the layout of the interior, it was strictly an observation about material quality as well as fit and finish, the center console feels like low rent plastic to me, and there are exposed edges on the door panels. Lots of cost cutting is evident to me.

The layout itself has some issues, but at least it finally has real cup holders.
 
#65 ·
Just to clarify, I wasn't criticizing the layout of the interior, it was strictly an observation about material quality as well as fit and finish, the center console feels like low rent plastic to me, and there are exposed edges on the door panels. Lots of cost cutting is evident to me.

The layout itself has some issues, but at least it finally has real cup holders.
I actually like the cup holders on my 335i.

I can't really comment on the quality of the materials on the F30 due to a lack of familiarity but I will say that the cheap contact paper looking stuff that covers the dash in my E93 and the fact that the paint (or whatever crap they used) to cover the plastic interior trim on the back of the front seats is wearing off is completely unacceptable.

CA
 
#69 · (Edited)
The first thing I noticed when driving the new 5 Series was how much cheaper the interior looked and felt as compared to our E60. The picture posted by CA just reminded me of my first impression.

I really like the 7 series and 6 series interiors as pictured. By comparison, the 3 Series interior does kinda look like BMW robbed the parts bin. It may also look off to me because there are at least three colors in a relatively small cabin area and it looks too busy (judging from BJs pictures). Maybe it would look better to me if it were a black interior?
 
#70 · (Edited)
All this talk about vanilla and chocolate! Does anyone else remember our discussions about the 'shark fin' antenna back in the good old days? We haven't changed a bit. Well, boltjames transmogrified into boltjaM3s*, but little else has changed. That's one change I'm not embracing beej.

* Now that the ///M328** is history, may I suggest a remonikerization to b0ltjames?

** Last seen being driven*** by the kid who bought it using his bar mitvah money, to his part time job at McDonald's.

*** Tastefully modified with racing stripes, an undercarriage light kit, and a spoiler off a WRX STI.
 
#73 ·
I've driven the F30 as a loaner. My humble thoughts based on having spent a day with the car, which is obviously FAR from what is needed to assess the vehicle:

1. Exterior styling - I love it in person MINUS the bland hood and its horizontal line running across. What were they thinking on this one, our GT has this too and it has to be one of the ugliest features of this new look.
2. Interior styling - I love it but cannot tell how practical it will be in the long-run. Also could not determine how anti-glare the new NAV screen really is, since it is no longer recessed.
3. Seats - this is where i disagree with the vast majority here. Those seats are HARD as heck, one thing I hate about the E90. You have no idea how bad...if only I could rip out the GT seats and throw them in the E90. :)
4. Vehicle dynamics - all felt like a true BMW.
5. EPS - it is about as lifeless as it can be. Needless to say, the wife loved it and this kind of steering will appeal to the masses...so a well-calculated, shrewd move for BMW, from a financial standpoint, as more cars will be sold, but I hate the damned thing. Period.
6. ASS - Need we say more, the fact that a recent decison was made allowing dealers to disable this speaks for itself. Really, the update is to allow your last setting to endure for eternity, meaning you turn this off once and you never have to disable it again. Sign me up.

Oh yeah, no WAY would I buy an F30. The 328 is only 2 years old and I have a good friend, who is a mechanic at a local BMW dealership, that will be maintaining the car on the side, with me getting my hands dirty along the way.

I hope all of you are doing well. Bemo out! :thumbup:
 
#83 ·
I've driven the F30 as a loaner. My humble thoughts based on having spent a day with the car, which is obviously FAR from what is needed to assess the vehicle:

1. Exterior styling - I love it in person MINUS the bland hood and its horizontal line running across. What were they thinking on this one, our GT has this too and it has to be one of the ugliest features of this new look.
2. Interior styling - I love it but cannot tell how practical it will be in the long-run. Also could not determine how anti-glare the new NAV screen really is, since it is no longer recessed.
3. Seats - this is where i disagree with the vast majority here. Those seats are HARD as heck, one thing I hate about the E90. You have no idea how bad...if only I could rip out the GT seats and throw them in the E90. :)
4. Vehicle dynamics - all felt like a true BMW.
5. EPS - it is about as lifeless as it can be. Needless to say, the wife loved it and this kind of steering will appeal to the masses...so a well-calculated, shrewd move for BMW, from a financial standpoint, as more cars will be sold, but I hate the damned thing. Period.
6. ASS - Need we say more, the fact that a recent decison was made allowing dealers to disable this speaks for itself. Really, the update is to allow your last setting to endure for eternity, meaning you turn this off once and you never have to disable it again. Sign me up.

Oh yeah, no WAY would I buy an F30. The 328 is only 2 years old and I have a good friend, who is a mechanic at a local BMW dealership, that will be maintaining the car on the side, with me getting my hands dirty along the way.

I hope all of you are doing well. Bemo out! :thumbup:
That is the thing about seats - what works for one person might not work at all for another.

The F30 seats just fit my body.

I love the E90 seats too but it took longer to adjust to them.
 
#89 ·
The E90/E92 do not have the start/stop function. At least mine does not?
 
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