Have these sitting at my house almost ready to install and send DME in for programming! Only a few more parts to go!!! I will photo the install for you all and get dyno numbers.
Finally got to the office, damn traffic. The outside temp was in 62-70 degree range and the intake temp was pretty constant at 176-179 degrees... wow! I'll look at the data in more detail later, but surprisingly RPM change doesn't seem to affect the temp that much, I do see a change, but I expected it to change more. Maybe it's just so darn hot already, it's hard to get any hotter I'll log my back to home trip as well in the evening.
some initial dyno runs today some MAF issues with scaler (T9), without prescaler MAF clips at 5.5K rpm. With it we were going lean. Also had some belt slippage! My boost numbers seemed a little low so I am going to take a look at this and put a new belt on, and re-due the leak test. Measured about 5psi at 5.5k...this may be 1-2 psi less than I would expect. (with headers the measured pressure will be less by a few psi... the dinan 6psi kit should measure about 4psi with headers I should have 6-7psi measured or like 9ish without headers). This doesn't mean you loose boost just air flows better (pressure is due the air being forced at a rate faster than the engine can use it)...the air is still there and so is the extra fuel and the power. today we saw about 350rwhp at about 5.5k and redline is at 6750rpm so still a lot to go! will update the next time. following curve looks like it will be in the 420rwhp neighborhood.
some initial dyno runs today some MAF issues with scaler (T9), without prescaler MAF clips at 5.5K rpm. With it we were going lean. Also had some belt slippage! My boost numbers seemed a little low so I am going to take a look at this and put a new belt on, and re-due the leak test. Measured about 5psi at 5.5k...this may be 1-2 psi less than I would expect. (with headers the measured pressure will be less by a few psi... the dinan 6psi kit should measure about 4psi with headers I should have 6-7psi measured or like 9ish without headers). This doesn't mean you loose boost just air flows better (pressure is due the air being forced at a rate fast than the engine can use it)...the air is still there there and the fuel and the power. today we saw about 350rwhp at about 5.5k and redline is at 6750rpm so still a lot to go! will update the next time. following curve looks like it will be in the 420rwhp neighborhood.
Is the blue NA yours before the SC?
Attached is one of my last dynos.
I believe your IC piping is aluminum? Have you considered going with steel? I was going to go with aluminum originally, but after researching not so sure anymore. Also Dinan pipes are steel.
Do you have a larger image? Also if you haven't done so yet, ask him for the dyno files. I have all mine and it's nice to play around with and compare the runs on your own.
On my way back home the outside temp was around 80 degrees and the intake temp got to 203 toward the end :yikes: Again, did not see it change as the RPM/load changes. Is that normal? Wonder if my temp sensor became lazy.
Sorry didn't answer your question about the blue line...that is naturally aspirated (before headers) dyno run. Headers and cats are why you see the low rpm increases...it really isn't the SC. Not sure why he didn't over lay the header runs..but that is what the blue line is. I think it was peak HP of 270 and torque of 289.
I never did a real "stock run" my car came with Dinan tb, and CAI. I added the rest and did that run a few years ago. Obviously a different engine too now. The new engine runs smoother and nicer than the other one ever did.
I had header wrap on my pipe after the IC all the way to the TB.
I took it off as my temps actually seemed higher with it haha although that was before having the additional heat exchanger. I may try again and look for a before and after see what it really does. My gut says there will be nothing noticeable except it will take longer to heat up at slow speeds or idle. Under load there shouldn't be a difference.
I have very thick Fiberglas wrap by the way. I think some of the photos on here you can see it.
Yeah here is a phot Chris took with the wrap. I was thinking along the same lines as you and now I am skeptical it does anything but will do the science and try again.
Car will be in the shop next week to fix this MAF issue. We are eliminating the T9...so mine will be for sale if anyone wants it. We will be replacing with a "clamp". I don't know exactly what it is but it sounds very awesome haha. Did some more runs the other day but didn't save data... Got it a little better a little over 400rwhp but the MAF situation is fighting back. Should have updates next week with the numbers!!
Goodbye MAF problems hello to the SMT8T piggyback! And now she is easily tunable on the fly with my own pc!! Good thing this car is never going back to stock!!
Goodbye MAF problems hello to the SMT8T piggyback! And now she is easily tunable on the fly with my own pc!! Good thing this car is never going back to stock!!
Was running amazing... Got it on the dyno and the fuel pump started to give out we think and the AFR were going lean! Didn't take her all the way up. Have the new walbro 400lph coming in to replace this 255lph. Should do the trick! Murphy's law much?
Really nice thread. I really enjoyed reading it. So many other threads are about guys complaining about their cars or the typical E39 issues. I'm on vacation this week and this thread makes me think I should really take my SC off the shelf and install it.....but it will be going on my Mustang. My E39 is my DD and I want to keep it that way.
Ay my boosted brothers Im thinking of installing Superspint headers. Now im running the stock Vf engineering tune but with these supersprints installed will i need a custom tune for maximum performance out of these headers or would they perform the same with the Vf tune? Allso would they be a problem with the Vf tune ? or can i just bolt them on and im good to go ?
I can't speak to E39 - VF exactly but I can speak to the same exact question for a number of forced induction cars, and the answer is usually:
- yes to get the most from them you would need a custom tune or an upgraded off-shelf tune from VF
- yes you prob would get some small gains on the base VF setup, prob not as much big dyno peak number gains as "area under curve" type and mostly noticeable in part throttle and mid-RPM roll-on benefits (this is because most tunes are optimized for WOT & redline but have room to trim and adapt and add fuel in mid-RPM areas)
- no probably would not cause a problem either, just be less gain than if you get the tune upgraded
- don't know about VF but most kit / tune mfrs for any given platform have a pre-configured tune for upgraded exhaust plumbing.. aka "Stage 1 = OEM exhaust, Stage 2 = headers & exhaust"
It's too bad putting headers on these cars is such a hassle... esp given the OEM header leaves something to be desired... I kinda lust for the upgrade but have decided I wouldn't do it myself and I don't lust for the bill that would come with the install...
Some kid i was talking to at a shop one day while he was getting his car tuned (Lexus GS 430 with a supra motor swap) told me tunes are not permanent or something. That he has to get one in summer than in winter cause of the season change (weather and temperature) or something ? Is this true, cause im not looking to get my car tuned Now than in summer it Blows up or something cause i need to have the whole thing retuned..That tuning Sh*t aint cheap ya know :tsk: ... So basically im asking if i get my car custom tuned is that it, am i done?! Like am i good to go for life now ? All year around ? lol
Yeah. Sounds like just the kind of thing a ricetard would say. :tsk:
On an old school motor the issue would be that you could tune hotter for winter air density and temps but would have to be more careful about detonation and exhaust temps in summer when the air is hot and thin.
Anything from 90's on will have IAT (intake air temp) and engine operating temp and MAF (mass air flow) sensor and ambient atmospheric and/or manifold air pressure (MAP) and then compensation constants and tables that ensure the car runs in all conditions as those things go up and down. A good tune and ECU/DME can totally handle all that for you.
Shizzy tuners only know the main fueling / timing tables and don't know the more sophisticated and nuanced stuff which is where you'll hear about guys getting great peak dyno numbers but then when the weather changed or he started driving it on the street the car wouldn't idle right or wouldn't make power or threw CEL's etc.
Only reasons I can think you might "need a seasonal" tune would be:
If the tuner didn't KNOW how to or didn't bother to tune the temp or barometric compensation properly for either a speed-density or mass-air type system
Running speed-density but the ECU doesn't HAVE an atmospheric pressure sensor or MAP to tell it if barometric is up/down.
If the car is running speed-density or alpha-N system pushed to limit so that seasonal barometric changes knock it out of range of trim
Assuming your tune would still be on OEM DME then it will be totally fine. It's a MAF based system with IAT sensor. If the tuner really does crazy stuff and sets you up speed-density with the OEM DME then you might have an issue since it doesn't seem to have an ambient or MAP pressure sensor but that's highly unlikely.
Oh and BTW even if the ric3rs tune did need seasonal changes, he's chosen poorly if he doesn't have a setup these days where he can reflash the tune back and forth himself a la shark injector / etc. etc. style - SO many tuners now use tools where you can flip yourself back and forth from stock to tune and more and more allow you to buy a second tune so you can have street-tune and track-tune for instance and this would be just the same... shouldn't be a big deal even if you have to do it...
Hey guys from down under! No 540 here unfortunately had to put her in storage. I will be here for a the foreseeable future.
Thanks for the comments the build took forever but she is a dream! I did install the headers and they are a PITA to do took me like 12-15 hours the first time. It is much easier to pull the motor. 5-7 sounds far too optimistic to me. They are an incredible addition though! I can not say about the tune but I am sure it would be fine... I would add an AFR when you do it just to be on the safe side. My tune was fully custom and like said I had a piggy back module to make live tuning possible... We also had sooooo much trouble with the MAF remapping.
A good tune should be able to compensate at any temp!! That is the point of the sensors and fuel injection!
A custom tune would be better than an "off the shelf" tune for sure with or without headers but it should be ok.
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