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X5 35d vs. Porsche Cayenne Diesel

130K views 850 replies 74 participants last post by  Pierre Louis 
#1 ·
Hey guys,

what are your thoughts on this match-up? I'm convinced I'm going to buy a Diesel car, now it's a matter of deciding between the 2. I never thought I'd see these 2 cars priced so closely, but hey, thanks Porsche!

Let me know your thoughts,
Dan.
 
#57 ·
Dealer profit on base Cayenne $5754.00 Dealer profit on base X5 $4905.00.. If you are conservative on the options you can drive a Cayenne at a good price if you can find a dealer that will order you one for 500.00 over invoice..
I don't think Porsche dealers ever deal up from invoice like BMW dealers do.

When I was looking at Cayennes last year, they were going for $1k off sticker. That's about it. If you didn't buy it, someone else would, so dealers are not willing to go lower
 
#58 ·
+1! They can sell every Cayenne they can get their hands on -- so why discount? The only "discounts" I have been able to find are on the super expensive Turbos -- they will negotiate a bit on those. However if you can afford one of those, the chance is you won't need to negotiate!:rofl: I have been looking at some off lease Cayennes that have come up from the Beverly Hills area in SoCal. Pristine cars, look like virtually no one ever drove them except for the valets at Ivy, and maybe a road trip to Santa Barbara or Palm Springs. Those can be had for a decent price, but I have a thing about "used" cars -- however I may have to rethink that.:angel:
 
#59 ·
i was seriously considering PC prior to my 2011 550 xi M
checked 4-5 large dealership in tri-state area, best deal on 83K PCS was 80K but, that was a few months after PC was introduced and appetite for these cars was less, in any case they do not talk from invoice up, but rather from MSRP down
in retrospect i wish i proceed with PC, to many issues with 550 and much less fun.................
 
#61 ·
Went to the local Porsche dealer the other day to check out the Cayenne (no diesel yet on the lot) to get a feel for it. No test drive, just sat in one. Interior was OK, albeit a bit "busy" instrumentation, but no "wow-factor" for me. For my needs (business vehicle) I will be looking for something else. Especially when the sales person told me the diesels will be selling for MSRP. When I asked why, he said, quote, "because we can".

As a side note, I was surprised to learn that there are only two Porsche dealers in Georgia, both of them in Atlanta, about 10 miles apart.
 
#66 ·
I'm very happy with my 2012 X5 Diesel. I will be buying a 2013 BMW Diesel or a Porsche Diesel.The way I would equip a PC would sticker for 61,220.00 and I will buy it for 55,295.00..I figure this is about 5,000.00 more for the PC... The main reason I am considering a Porsche is the interior..I don't think the Porsche is engineered any better than the BMW.. To me it is a matter of styling.
 
#68 ·
As I mentioned in another post... I have driven the Cayenne Diesel in Europe (it is slightly different) and I will be driving the U.S.-spec model in Alaska in a month at a media event.

Based on my initial experience (about 250 miles mixed Autobahn/city), the Cayenne is a bit slower but it handles better than the X5 35d — thank basic physics and suspension tuning. (I did 145 mph in the Cayenne Diesel... :D)

- Mike
 
#71 ·
Based on my initial experience (about 250 miles mixed Autobahn/city), the Cayenne is a bit slower but it handles better than the X5 35d - thank basic physics and suspension tuning. (I did 145 mph in the Cayenne Diesel... :D)

- Mike
How much slower is what I'm curious about. It's only down about ~20hp, but is a good deal lighter and has a quick shifting 8 speed ZF box.
 
#69 ·
Mike - will be looking forward to your review of the new Cayenne diesel. I was wondering, do they even HAVE a Porsche store in Alaska? OTOH, the Cayenne would be the perfect Porsche for that environment -- along with domestic 4WD iron!:rofl: Too bad it is not a comparo with the other diesel SUV's, including the new Jeep GC oil burner -- that would be interesting!:thumbup:
 
#73 ·
I have been trolling this forum for a while as I contemplate buying a X5 latter this year...to be honest this thread has caused me to lose some confidence in the opinions of some of the frequent posters. I read all the trash put on the VW Toureg as a bad handler
and weak engine...but bring up the Porche Cayenne Diesel and presto ..."wunderlust" I know all of you here know that they share the same engine, transmission and chasis... so tell me how does the handling go from below BMW standard in a Toureg to worth 15K more when your change the sheetmetal shape and put on that badge ? I did test the TouregTDI, X5-35d and the Cayenne (Hybrid) , since the Cayenne was the Hybrid I could not relate to the performance..but for those that raved about the interior of the Cayenne ,, I assume you ignored the most important part of the interior ...."The Seats" You cant tell me the Cayenne seats get close to the 20 pos "multicontour" The other issue is interior room... I really felt "crampted" in the Cayenne , but I am a wide body 6'3.

I do realize that the look and badge issue is obviously a big deal for many here , but when it comes to functionallity of the engine , transmission and suspention, I would expect some consistancy when comparing the Toureg and Cayenne , particularly when the Loaded Toureg TDI is less than $60 K. The one very valid point made here that led me away from the Toureg was that the service dept of most VW dealerships were not prepared for the demands of the "high-end" consumer.
 
#74 ·
Ahh, this is gonna be interesting to pick apart. First up, welcome to BFest:rofl:

I have been trolling this forum for a while as I contemplate buying a X5 latter this year...to be honest this thread has caused me to lose some confidence in the opinions of some of the frequent posters. I read all the trash put on the VW Toureg as a bad handler
and weak engine...but bring up the Porche Cayenne Diesel and presto ..."wunderlust" I know all of you here know that they share the same engine, transmission and chasis... so tell me how does the handling go from below BMW standard in a Toureg to worth 15K more when your change the sheetmetal shape and put on that badge ?
20 hp less is hardly "weak." Just because they are built on the same chassis doesn't mean they are the same car. Let's remember that the Touareg has a significantly better interior than a BMW X5

You really think Porsche just keeps the basic Touareg suspension in the Cayenne? Let's be real here. The Porsche Cayenne is the benchmark in this segment. Always will be. The BMW is second best. I love BMW as much as the next guy here, but Porsche is clearly superior
I did test the TouregTDI, X5-35d and the Cayenne (Hybrid) , since the Cayenne was the Hybrid I could not relate to the performance..but for those that raved about the interior of the Cayenne ,, I assume you ignored the most important part of the interior ...."The Seats" You cant tell me the Cayenne seats get close to the 20 pos "multicontour" The other issue is interior room... I really felt "crampted" in the Cayenne , but I am a wide body 6'3.
Porsche offers like 3-4 diff't seat options on the Cayenne. Sport seats, Comfort seats, go try them and get back to me.

I do realize that the look and badge issue is obviously a big deal for many here , but when it comes to functionallity of the engine , transmission and suspention, I would expect some consistancy when comparing the Toureg and Cayenne , particularly when the Loaded Toureg TDI is less than $60 K. The one very valid point made here that led me away from the Toureg was that the service dept of most VW dealerships were not prepared for the demands of the "high-end" consumer.
Making a point that the Touareg is very similar to a Cayenne shows how clueless you really are. Porsche employs the use of much more aluminum to cut down weight and the engines aren't just the same as the VW equivalent. The base V6 has been upgraded to put down more power in the Porsche and the TDI is also slightly diff't than the Treg version.

The Porsche Cayenne is available with significantly more advanced chassis technology than either BMW or VW. PASM, PTV, PCCB, among other things.
 
#76 ·
Making a point that the Touareg is very similar to a Cayenne shows how clueless you really are. Porsche employs the use of much more aluminum to cut down weight and the engines aren't just the same as the VW equivalent. The base V6 has been upgraded to put down more power in the Porsche and the TDI is also slightly diff't than the Treg version.
Road and track suffers from the Clueless conclusion:

The Cayenne borrows its 3.0-liter turbo-diesel V-6 and eight-speed automatic transmission from the diesel versions of the Audi Q7 and Volkswagen Touareg. For the Porsche, though, power is upped from 225 hp to 240***8212;torque is the same in all three vehicles at an ample 406 lb-ft. All-wheel drive is standard. We quite liked this powertrain as installed in our long-term Audi Q7 TDI, so with the added power, lower weight, and Porsche-tuned chassis, this Cayenne should be even more pleasant. Porsche pegs the diesel Cayenne***8217;s 0-to-60-mph time at 7.2 seconds, a number we expect to improve on somewhat; when we last tested the slightly heavier Touareg TDI, the sprint took just 6.9 seconds.

You really think Porsche just keeps the basic Touareg suspension in the Cayenne? Let's be real here.
Look up the specs : both are front double wishbone front and multilink rear on both base models , Now the Cayenne does have the "PASM" option much like the BMW AD , but my friend the base suspension is the same.

Porsche employs the use of much more aluminum to cut down weight
The curb on the Diesel Cayenne is 4795# The curb on the TDI Toureg is 4795# so yes that is 179# ....not too much aluminum...none mentioned in thier specs by the way.

I am not saying they are exact units , but I do say they are very similiar in base units by Porsche own specs...........not to see that is to just have that badge too close to your eye ....:)

Oh by the way ....Thanks for the welcome...
 
#78 ·
Road and track suffers from the Clueless conclusion:

The Cayenne borrows its 3.0-liter turbo-diesel V-6 and eight-speed automatic transmission from the diesel versions of the Audi Q7 and Volkswagen Touareg. For the Porsche, though, power is upped from 225 hp to 240-torque is the same in all three vehicles at an ample 406 lb-ft. All-wheel drive is standard. We quite liked this powertrain as installed in our long-term Audi Q7 TDI, so with the added power, lower weight, and Porsche-tuned chassis, this Cayenne should be even more pleasant. Porsche pegs the diesel Cayenne's 0-to-60-mph time at 7.2 seconds, a number we expect to improve on somewhat; when we last tested the slightly heavier Touareg TDI, the sprint took just 6.9 seconds.

Look up the specs : both are front double wishbone front and multilink rear on both base models , Now the Cayenne does have the "PASM" option much like the BMW AD , but my friend the base suspension is the same.

The curb on the Diesel Cayenne is 4795# The curb on the TDI Toureg is 4795# so yes that is 179# ....not too much aluminum...none mentioned in thier specs by the way.

I am not saying they are exact units , but I do say they are very similiar in base units by Porsche own specs...........not to see that is to just have that badge too close to your eye ....:)

Oh by the way ....Thanks for the welcome...
Read Mike's reply above. He works for Autoblog and clearly knows what he's talking about.
 
#86 ·
I honestly don't understand all the rave about Cayenne Diesel. The numbers are not impressive at all, but all the articles scream like it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Look at this:
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/03/2013-porsche-cayenne-diesel-offers-monster-torque-28-mpg-hwy/
2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel offers monster torque, 28 MPG HWY
"That's enough power to propel the super-SUV to 60 in 7.2 seconds and 135 miles per hour on the track"

Have they heard of X5 40d/35d? Are they aware of specs of x5m 50d?
That's a standard now, so you can't apply words like "monster" to anything below that.

I have read similar descriptions about Infinity FX30d. Posting numbers (torque, hp) average or below in class, then calling them "class leading", etc.
 
#87 ·
I do not understand it either, but I am happy that some of the BMW owners are ready to pay the premium for Porsche. The competition is a good thing.
 
#88 ·
I have spent hours upon hours with the engineers from both companies. In that time, I have never heard the Porsche team discuss "cost cutting" or "savings" or even mention something is done "this way" or "that way" to keep the price down... with the exception of the VW-sourced engine in the Cayenne V6 (that one vehicle is priced just to bait X5 and ML-Class owners away from their brands). They honestly don't have any direct competitors. Porsche engineers can do just about anything they want, and they now have very deep pockets and a huge bucket of parts to pull from (VW Group).

BMW, on the other hand, is very price sensitive. They are always talking about the competition from Mercedes-Benz and Audi... no getting around it. Does BMW build a damn good car? Of course they do... but they are apples to oranges when compared to a Porsche.

Go drive the hell out of a Cayenne, then do the same in the Touareg... night and day.

The competition is a very good thing!

- Mike
 
#96 ·
Based on the numbers, it sure looks like the Cayenne diesel engine is the exactly same as in Touareg:

2013 Cayenne diesel: 3.0 l - 240 hp - 406 lb/ft
2013 Touareg diesel: 3.0 l - 240 hp - 406 lb/ft
While output appears identical, it is a second-generation of the engine (I think VW will get the second-gen engine next year, as it does better with emissions). I did this report from New York, discussing the differences between the Euro engine and ours:

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/04/2013-porsche-cayenne-new-york-2012/

- Mike
 
#91 ·
I have no doubts that PC is a very good car. Here we are talking about diesel version***8230; I have no doubts that BMW diesel is much better than Audi/VW/Skoda/Porsche diesel. I have driven many diesels from this group. They are a few years behind BMW with diesel technology (they switched to common rail technology relatively not a long time ago).

My X5 is without AD (which I regret very much), but I can***8217;t imagine that X5 with AD handles $15-20k worse than PC :)

Design is a subjective thing ***8211; even if X5 and PC were priced at the same level, I would not go for PC because of the design.
 
#92 ·
I have no doubts that PC is a very good car. Here we are talking about diesel version…. I have no doubts that BMW diesel is much better than Audi/VW/Skoda/Porsche diesel. I have driven many diesels from this group. They are a few years behind BMW with diesel technology (they switched to common rail technology relatively not a long time ago).

My X5 is without AD (which I regret very much), but I can't imagine that X5 with AD handles $15-20k worse than PC :)

Design is a subjective thing - even if X5 and PC were priced at the same level, I would not go for PC because of the design.
The current VAG 3.0 TDI is more advanced than the M57 in the US. It uses a newer generation of Bosch's CRD technology. Not to mention, the VAG unit is smoother, quieter, and yields better fuel economy than the M57 in the USA.
 
#94 ·
Let's not compare a few years old technology of M57 which is sold in the US (and only in the US!) with a "new" technology of VAG. Let's wait what BMW will bring in 2013 to the US. Regardless, I am talking about diesel technology in these two groups - IMO BMW has better diesels (quitter, more responsive, better mileage, etc.). Unfortunately, only old technology is available in the US.
 
#95 · (Edited)
Sadly it seems as if the only "new" technology we get here is the (often problematic) urea system!:tsk: Mike - enjoyed the GTS review! I have to say the best V8 sound I ever heard was on my '53 Ford with Douglass Steel-paks!:rofl: Sadly no one remembers those glory days of the '50's with the blocked heat risers and straight through mufflers!
 
#97 · (Edited)
I got to drive the Cayenne diesel today and thought it really rode and handled great.

The dealer said the official sell date was not even until Sept 1st. Since there are little to no discounts, I estimate that I would be paying about $10k more than a similar optioned X5 with each SUV having a few different features that the other does not.

I would be trading in a Mercedes GL350, which is great cruising car with usable third row seats and a ton of space, but definitely not sporty as the X5 or Cayenne.
 
#98 ·
I got to drive the Cayenne diesel today and thought it really rode and handled great.

The dealer said the official sell date was not even until Sept 1st. Since there are little to no discounts, I estimate that I would be paying about $10k more than a similar optioned X5 with each SUV having a few different features that the other does not.
Wow, only $10k?

I built a Cayenne TDI the other day online and it was about $20k OTD more than my X5d. Next time around, I'm down to drop the extra cash because I honestly think the Cayenne is better than the X5 in many diff't ways. Plus it's a Porsche :thumbup:

(disclaimer, this is if BMW messes up the next X5)
 
#100 · (Edited)
Dang, those pictures of the GTS in the review is mouth watering and the review hits home in a bad way "most engaging" just what I love. We are pretty much set on a Cayenne V6 as our do it all, go everywhere ( well not everywhere but light off-road ) in any weather and most important dependable SUV with the style and luxury my wife deserves but after seeing and reading that I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't go for the GTS. Hmmm we are getting further and further away from the 4-Runner I voted for... I need to forget I saw that review, quickly.
 
#104 ·
Porsche Cayenne seems to be the best in the biz in terms of the 5 door Crossover built for driving, you are paying MSRP (or close to MSRP) for the best auto engineering can deliver. That said, the Cayenne doesn't contend with Audi, VW, BMW, MB, or any other luxury crossover; its in a class of its own. Yes Maybe the X5M, ML63, and Audi Q7 V12 TDI seem like alternatives, but really cant offer what Porsche offers; pure driving bliss from a huge automotive racing database and components that are really tried and tested from being fitted to their other product lines.

In my opinion this is how i see it

BMW X5 (current generation isn't really a contender with the new Cayenne, the F15s will be on equal playing fields, but still carry the motto that the E70 has)= Built for driving your young to middle aged family around town, but with added satisfaction of knowing that when the road gets curvy, the car will be able to cope with it well.

Cayenne= Car that was designed for high speed and high cornering abilities. In terms of family friendliness, who cares, as long as the driver has a huge grin from cheek to cheek.

Thus, the idea that the Cayenne is in a class of its own, comes into the picture.
 
#105 ·
I drove the Cayenne Diesel again today and can not believe how smoothly it handles. The X5 handles well too, but I think the Cayenne is better. I was going 80 mph and it did not even feel that fast. This Cayenne had the blind spot system and that was definitely a useful feature.

The interior of the X5 seems bigger, but both SUV's seems small compared to our Merc GL350 that we would be trading in.

I am just not sure if the Cayenne is worth $10k-$12k more that the X5 we were considering.
 
#106 ·
my 2 c

This issue has been debated multiple times
Prior to my 550 xi M/ED/ i extensively test drove PC and PCS
My conclusion was that PCS with air suspension and TVS/ torque-vectoring system/ was THE BEST SUV i ever drove, X6 5.0 was 2nd and x5 5.0 w adaptive drive and M sport was 3 rd
it will be very interesting to see 2014 F15 and compare w PC
In category PC/V6/ vs X5 3.5 i personally would prefer BMW
My partner has 2012 X5M and i drove it for a day- this is ABSOLUTE BEAST i cant even imagine how PC Turbo will perform!!!!!!
Just my 2c
 
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