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"Tip-In" and "Initial Acceleration" problems fixed

111K views 444 replies 107 participants last post by  chims 
#1 ·
I have several updates to provide everyone after picking up my 2011 535i Dec 2010 build back yesterday from local NC BMW dealer. the first is the well publicized "tip in" or "initial acceleration" issue. i was expeceriing the same as many others where if you are a c complete stop and you go to accelerate the car doesnt respond right away and you naturally apply more gas and then the car jumps ahead of you. but if you were to move to the D/S position, the car was perfect and you didnt experience any lag in acceleration...it was almost like the car was set to start off in 2nd gear vs 1st

well i am happy to report the sw patch applied has completely corrected the issue...now this is a tricky one as your local BMW will not have this sw at their site. My SA luckily had heard of this issue and had to escalate to BMW-NA to obtain the fix. according to SA, BMW-NA are the only ones that can remote into car and apply the fix....

notes from my paperwork show the following: "DME Software Calibration SIB 12 09 11, attempted to program but CID failed to program. Completed battery reset and switched ICOM's, CID failed' Submitted PUMA CASE #xxxx Completed I-RAP programming session"

Software fix took almost two days to apply but happy to report that it has completely fixed the issue and the acceleration has returned!!!!
 
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#75 ·
Bingo! Higher CAFE standards mean that auto makers need to be more aggressive at "training" the driver to be sparing with the accelerator. Of course, in the F10, they could have also trimmed some of the fat off the car, but I digress. Electric steering and run flats are also consequences of CAFE.

I will say that this tip in issue sounds similar to how my E70 behaves. Even though I have this throaty NA V8 at my disposal, it is sometimes difficult to get it moving quickly. S doesn't exhibit the same issue.

Sent from my HTC EVO using Bimmer App
 
#76 ·
If it was CAFE standards then wouldn't the only vehicles affected be the ones built for the US? Would BMW force the rest of the world to accept a compromised design just to comply with CAFE standards in the US?
Or is this just the price we pay for outstanding fuel efficiency?
 
#77 ·
In my judgement, If I look in my mirror and decide that it would be in my best interest to make more space between whatever I see and myself - and command my 300HP vehicle to get a move on by stepping deeply into my peddle - and it doesn't respond for 2 seconds (50 feet of unwanted closure at only 35mph vehicle-to-vehicle speed difference), I'd call that dangerous. Wouldn't you? I think BMW would agree. Now let's hope they can fix it.
 
#81 ·
This sounds eerily similar to Toyota's 6-speed auto trans that came with their 3.5L V6 in '07. At random times you'd step on the accelerator and the car would rev but not actually have you in a gear for up to a couple seconds.
 
#78 ·
Mine isn't that bad.
 
#86 ·
Mine is.
 
#79 ·
On the 528's my money is on this being a purposeful programming for fuel economy in D particularly since in DS there is no lag. At least that's how it seems with mine.

My Enclave had a similar MPG minded programming that created what felt like dead spots when accelerating. After a reprogram the dead spots went away and the SA warned it may decrease fuel economy, which I didn't care about (it's an 8 passenger vehicle...fuel economy isn't at the top of the list for this particular vehicle).
 
#83 ·
Thanks for posting this.

Full read of the thread suggests that the fix is temporary - and that further suggests that the issue is in the adaptive system.

I'm tempted to try it, but not at the expense of having the appliance not be faulty when the repairman comes to look at it ;)
 
#89 ·
I visited my dealer yesterday, buying some accessories. Saw service frontman who is in charge for all computer diagnosis machine and asked about "tip-in/jerking" issue awareness. He said there will be new software update available for download on 19/JUL (if I'm not mistaken with the date) to fix this.

I'm not asking anything further why 19/JUL, what version it will be, who told him this, etc... I can still manage the F10, but surely will do update if there is any improvement available. The only car I had and not able to control the pedal was 2006 toyota rav 4.
 
#97 ·
I'm really focused on this post. If true, it means that BMW is not insulated from the problem and is taking steps to resolve it. Ill try to get something out of my SA on it.

Remember that the new Audi has the same transmission and an engine with the same HP as the 535. If it drives well, it would be a further blow to BMW. So if not for safety sake, for marketing reasons, BMW can't afford to ignore it. At least according to me.

Q
 
#90 ·
Got my car back from the service department today. In regards to the hesitation issue, this is what they wrote;
There is a hesitation while accelerating from a stop.
NRN No repair needed at this time
Test drove with customer, indicated to the customer vehicle feels normal. Reset the learning adaptations through DME service functions. Checked for bullitens / measures. There are no faults in the vehicle. The vehicle is operating as designed. Throttle response is instant once sport mode is selected.

I like the "vehicle is operating as designed" line. Yeah, it is....poorly. :rolleyes:
I'll drive it around for a bit to see if it will "learn" an improved throttle response. And I won't be holding my breath, either. ;)
 
#91 ·
Not surprised. There's no fix because there's nothing "wrong". The car is operating as designed.
It's a design flaw.
 
#101 ·
Sure. BMW (and I presume at least some other car companies) do this all the time, regardless of the problem. If their "diagnostics" indicate nothing is wrong then they refuse to do anything. If you don't like it you can sue them (or bring them to state lemon law arbitration). The fact that their diagnostics are faulty doesn't concern BMW. Only if the Federal (or State) government intervenes will they consider correcting the matter.

Why do they do this? Because they've been rewarded for it. Their sales and profitability, IIRC, are at record levels. If there are no consequences for their actions then they will take it as a sign they are doing the right thing.

The only things they understand are sales and profit. If enough people get sick and tired and stop buying BMWs then they'll sit up and take notice. By then we can only hope it will be too late.
 
#92 ·
If they don't fix this, I may end up trading in the car. It's maddening.
 
#93 ·
I also think this has a slight cultural flavour. In Europe pretty much everyone drove MTs during my 25 years living there. Automatic cars were terrible since they were predominantly mated with the tiny low torque engines used in Europe. Take off was exceedingly slow and fuel consumption suffered compared to the MTs. In the US automatics have predominmantly been mated with huge torquey engines with immidiate response from stand still. Hence americans expect a much more immediate response from stand still than Europeans do and BMW being a european company might not fully understand the US expectations and the importance of them.
 
#95 ·
It's not the engine's response I am worried about. It's the ability to drive smoothly. I cannot, and neither can my wife, get this car to pull away from either a dead stop or a slight rolling stop smoothly and with consistent speed, more than 20% of the time. You have three options normally for takeoff in this car: you have to feather the throttle and creep away like a cat burglar; tromp on it and leave like Don Garlits; or use normal throttle input, have nothing happen for 2 seconds, and then feel like a garbage truck just rear ended you. Every once in a while, or immediately after the throttle reprogramming trick, it's possible to pull away smoothly. If this car was being used for a limo service, the driver would have no repeat customers. If your kids take their driver's exam in this car, they'll fail. It really is that bad.
 
#94 ·
I'm still thinking it's a purposeful design of the software. There's no fix because there's nothing wrong. The only way it'll change is if there's enough demand/complaint for them to change the programming. Even then I doubt there will be a mass reprogramming. It'll be available upon request.

I've seen both Lexus (with their lousy tip-in on '02 gen ES 300's) and Buick (with their acceleration dead spots on '08 gen Enclave's) do this. In the case of Lexus they sent out letters letting owners know a voluntary reprogramming was available (mighty nice of them) and Buick SA's seemed knowledgeable about the reprogram when asked and applied it without hesitation.
 
#100 ·
At least in my case, I don't think that mapping is the culprit. When the lag occurs, there seems to be little difference if I'm at 30% or 80% throttle - it just doesn't go. In fact in a few cases, realizing that I was in this weird state of seeming suspended locomotion, I've stepped into it even more deeply and it did not noticeably respond. No - I've never floored it, because if it let loose, there would be way too much power.
 
#103 ·
What you are talking about is while in motion, which is a different situation.
 
#102 ·
Did you know there's a strangely similar thread on the X3 forum (previous generation) regarding irregular hesitation on the automatic transmission?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262130

Again, I think BMW is building overly complex transmission software to hit fuel economy numbers. It's why I bought a manual transmission. When I can't get a BMW or an Audi with a manual, I'll trade down to a Mini or a VW GTI.

-James
Seattle, WA
 
#105 ·
Tip In accelerator

I have watched the postings for a while. Wanted to voice my opinion. This is not unique to just the F10 series. I have an 06 325 that has a similar design, although not as pronounced. After adjusting to the way I accelarate it becomes less noticable. Try adjusting the way you operate the accelerator peddle. Place your entire foot on the peddle and apply even pressure. I find that this seems to help. The car is great, I used to have an X-5 that you had to do ankle exercises to operate. So I think this is a BMW design that is not going away. Enjoy the awesome car,
 
#107 ·
I have watched the postings for a while. Wanted to voice my opinion. This is not unique to just the F10 series. I have an 06 325 that has a similar design, although not as pronounced. After adjusting to the way I accelarate it becomes less noticable. Try adjusting the way you operate the accelerator peddle. Place your entire foot on the peddle and apply even pressure. I find that this seems to help. The car is great, I used to have an X-5 that you had to do ankle exercises to operate. So I think this is a BMW design that is not going away. Enjoy the awesome car,
While I agree that once you are aware of how the car reacts that you can somewhat compensate for it. My issue is what happens when someone uses the car that either has never driven it before or drives it infrequently and is used to instant acceleration when stepping on the throttle? I feel that the lag might be potentially dangerous in certain scenarios.
 
#106 ·
Placing my entire foot on the pedal makes no difference. I can't figure for the life of me why BMW would design it this way intentionally. It just makes the car hard to drive smoothly from a standing start. It's stupid. It's not the end of the world but it is stupid.
 
#108 ·
good evening everyone, i just wanted to post an update since first starting this thread, i am almost at 3,000 miles (1,500 more than when this SW patch was applied) and everything is still perfect with the fix and experiencing no issues with the hesitation or tip-in at this time..

hope this helps..have a great 4th!!
 
#119 ·
AlBoston, what was the outcome? thanks!
 
#115 ·
From what I've seen it appears to affect both the 535 and 528. The 535 has a service bulliten out in regards to it, with supposedly a software patch to fix it. The 528 does not currently have either. The 550 does not seem to be affected at all by this issue. It would probably be best to take 5 minutes and read through the entire thread, especially if it is an issue for your car.
 
#116 ·
I'm starting to wonder if this is mainly a forced turbo lag. A turbo engine is pretty gutless and fuel efficient when the turbos are not used and fast and thirsty when they are. Can it be that the engine is mapped to wait for a deep pedal movement prior to engage the turbos while in D mode? It would explain the weak response and sudden burst of power. When in S mode the turbos are engaged from get go causing a quicker smoother response but also poor fuel economy. It's not really noticeable on the 550 since even a turbo tuned 4.4l V8 has enough grunt without the turbos to get going.
 
#118 ·
Trust me on this: I've been deep into the pedal and the lag did not improve. I'm not convinced that it's turbo related - especially with the twin scroll design that comes on early.
 
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