BimmerFest BMW Forum banner

No Manual?? What happened?!

11K views 57 replies 25 participants last post by  Mark K 
#1 ·
I traded my 2002 E46 coupe for a TSX back in 2010... Lease is ending and I'd like to come back to BMW. But I'm finding that in the intervening time BMW is beginning to jettison the manual transmission completely for the US market.

But what's more shocking is that there's no talk of it here. I've been pouring through the threads and either I'm missing it, or no one cares.

Really? No 328xi with a stick? Really?? Not even for European delivery? Jesus H Christ.

People, we need to start a letter writing campaign, show up with pitchforks, start building voodoo dolls. Whatever. This is awful. Is Audi or Mini all that's left? Is there no way to speak up?

Steve
 
#2 ·
There is a manual available. It's called 335xi. BMW isn't dumb- they know that most of their manual buyers that choose manual for fun/performance also prefer the larger engine. Those folks also prefer RWD. That's why they dropped the manual option from 328xi, 528xi.

And the "not even for ED?" comment is a little silly. Not to single you out as many others make that point too. ED cars are the same exact thing you would get in the US. They can't slip in engine/transmission choices that were not federalized for the US market just because you happen to be picking up at the Welt. lol
 
#3 ·
I traded my 2002 E46 coupe for a TSX back in 2010... Lease is ending and I'd like to come back to BMW. But I'm finding that in the intervening time BMW is beginning to jettison the manual transmission completely for the US market.

But what's more shocking is that there's no talk of it here. I've been pouring through the threads and either I'm missing it, or no one cares.

Really? No 328xi with a stick? Really?? Not even for European delivery? Jesus H Christ.

People, we need to start a letter writing campaign, show up with pitchforks, start building voodoo dolls. Whatever. This is awful. Is Audi or Mini all that's left? Is there no way to speak up?

Steve
Steve,

I agree with you and I'll also add that I feel BMW stopped advancing the manual transmission circa 2007 for their line-up. I've seen no press releases on advanced new syncro design, nothing new on clutch or flywheel design and lightening, no rev-matching on downshift feature that's coming out on Nissan and Porsche. Heck, Porsche is doing a7-speed manual nowadays - at least they are trying something.

To be fair, I don't know how much it costs to federalize a model with a different engine/transmission combo. I can look at other manufacturers and see, even at far lower volumes, they do it - so I imagine the never-before-been-as-profitable BMW could do it. Heck, do it on just ONE model every THREE years and tell enthusiasts it's coming and going, so they can buy/lease.

I agree with the sentiments that the modern automatic is a joy to behold and drive in terms of speed, efficiency, and even weight is coming down. I still want a 3rd pedal in cars I'm driving for fun.

If you start a campaign, let me know. I'll lend some money and some effort. I want each 1 and 3 series available with a manual. I want a manual 5-series wagon, if one ever comes back. I want an x3 with a manual. And so help me God if they take away our manual-trans M3's!!!
 
#6 ·
We need to understand that BMW does not make sports cars. Porsche and the Nissan Z are sports cars and this makes it feasible to invest in r and d for sporty transmissions. BMW makes family sedans that at least in the 3 series are sporty. The market for a 3 series with some new advanced MT is tiny and not worth the investment.

OP, there are numerous threads here about manual vs automatic transmissions. But the truth is that at least 95% of 3 series buyers opt for automatic transmissions. If you want a car with a MT, you may need to order one.
 
#4 ·
People, we need to start a letter writing campaign, show up with pitchforks, start building voodoo dolls. Whatever. This is awful. Is Audi or Mini all that's left? Is there no way to speak up?
There is but one way to sway BMW: Show them the money!

If you can't demonstrate a financial advantage, you're still constitutionally guaranteed your right t'yak away. Good luck on that.

Guessing M will offer a manual.
 
#5 ·
BMW could always try a low-production model offering an upcharge for a manual trans on it - i.e. a 328xi manual adds +$1k to the bill.

If federalizing is, say, $100k to add such a model then the breakeven point would be fairly low.
 
#10 ·
BMW could always try a low-production model offering an upcharge for a manual trans on it - i.e. a 328xi manual adds +$1k to the bill.
In UK nowadays the AT is still a £1500 option(same for many Euro countries). The same was also true for US-sold AT 10+ years back($1500 extra for AT). BMW still sells tons of MT in Europe and Asia. With all the advanced robotics and just-in-time production capabilities in the Munich plant it would seem the low-production argument is just an excuse used by BMWNA(in addition to the dealerships complaining low sales on MT).
 
#7 ·
I traded my 2002 E46 coupe for a TSX back in 2010... Lease is ending and I'd like to come back to BMW. But I'm finding that in the intervening time BMW is beginning to jettison the manual transmission completely for the US market.

But what's more shocking is that there's no talk of it here. I've been pouring through the threads and either I'm missing it, or no one cares.

Really? No 328xi with a stick? Really?? Not even for European delivery? Jesus H Christ.

People, we need to start a letter writing campaign, show up with pitchforks, start building voodoo dolls. Whatever. This is awful. Is Audi or Mini all that's left? Is there no way to speak up?

Steve
Meh... if it means that much, you need to go to another brand, or buy a non XI model.
 
#8 ·
The mindset across the pond is one of wonder and amusement when viewing our American love of manual transmissions. Remember the M5? They came out with a manual transmission model just for US.

The direction of the auto industry seems to be leaning to car doing everything vs the driver; just look at the automatic headlights and now automatic high beams. If people can't even push the stalk forward/backward to turn the highbeams on/off, how can they drive a stick shift?
 
#12 ·
New manual cars are disappearing very quickly .... not many manufacturers make manual gearboxes anymore

driveres on this planet are getting lazy
 
#14 ·
I'm not a mechanic, so forgive me if this sounds unrealistic. With all the technology in vehicles these days, am I naive in thinking a true manual with an automatic mode should have been developed and in production by now? I'm not talking about a DCT, It would be your typical 6MT, but you would have a gate (maybe where a 7th gear could go, opposite side of shifter, how R works on the Getrag transmission), that you could shift into there, and then the car would behave like an automatic, with no need to manually shift. The gate could only be engaged while in Neutral for safety reasons. It could electronically disable the clutch pedal when this mode is activated, engage a torque converter, and even have it enable paddle shifters for those who enjoy using those with ATs. This way, manual drivers get what they want, automatic drivers get what they want, and everyone's happy. If they can program cars to drive themselves, is this really that much more difficult? Wouldn't there be a market for this type of transmission?
 
#15 ·
Nice idea but you are basically talking about a car with a clutch and a torque converter, 2 transmissions. This would be expensive and heavy. Also, since there is little demand for a MT in most cars, it makes little sense to develop such a technology especially when DCT's which already provide the same options already exist.
 
#17 ·
Even Ferrari is phasing out the manual transmission. It's a sad state of affairs. When I went to look at the 3 series I told the CA that I wanted a manual. He told me that it's the first time that he heard that in a long time. Then he had to hunt to find the one manual transmission vehicle they had on the lot. It was actually on their overflow lot about 2 miles away.
 
#18 ·
I just ordered my car tonight: 328i with 6MT. I'd have gone with the X-Drive if it had a stick, but it doesn't. (I'm a bit concerned about RWD when it's snowy, but that's not that often here.) With market trends, I suspect that this may be my last chance to get a manual in the U.S. Maybe I'll switch to a 9AT in 2016...
 
#19 ·
Really? No 328xi with a stick? Really?? Not even for European delivery? Jesus H Christ.
Steve, this is why it appears I've purchased my last BMW. I live in a northern climate (Seattle) and all-wheel drive is a huge asset. I also *love* driving manual. My 2006 BMW X3 3.0i (manual, m-sport, premium, xenons, pdc, servotronic, premium stereo) better last me a very long time, because there's no way to replace it. No X1, X3, or 328xi manual going forward.

Back in 2006 I bought my first BMW, a 330Cic. Why did I get a BMW over an Audi? Because the Audi A4 cabrio was tiptronic only. (Hear that BMW and Audi??)

Now, years later, I find myself in the same situation but with the brands reversed. If I can't get a manual all-wheel drive car (let alone the X1 that I really like!), I'll end up in an A4 or S4. Go figure...

Alternatively, if I'm going to settle for a two-wheel drive manual, then the new Mark 7 VW GTI looks really compelling. In snow I'd rather have front-wheel drive than rear-wheel drive. I expect the GTI will have 90% of the BMW's driving feel but at 60% of the price comparably optioned.

I hear you, Steve. It was a sad day when BMW threw us overboard. But by limiting the drivetrain options on the xDrive cars, BMW can now afford to bring the 320i to the US. Isn't that great? :tsk:

-James
Seattle, WA
 
#34 ·
I frequently check out E9x when I see them parked in NY. I see a number of MT cars. Obviously far more ATs but I have seen a lot of MT E9x in NYC. Obviously the car has to be parked on the street or in an open lot to be able to tell but I would assume that they are a representative sample.

CA
 
#37 ·
I traded my 2002 E46 coupe for a TSX back in 2010... Lease is ending and I'd like to come back to BMW. But I'm finding that in the intervening time BMW is beginning to jettison the manual transmission completely for the US market.

But what's more shocking is that there's no talk of it here. I've been pouring through the threads and either I'm missing it, or no one cares.
Steve, you live in Philly, your last cars were an E46 coupe and a TSX. Why do you suddenly need AWD now? Why is it now a deal breaker?

If nobody cares, it's because lots of BMW owners prefer their cars to be RWD and have been driving in winter on appropriate tires since forever.
 
#43 ·
I'll just say to this that after spending this winter driving my m5 on winter tires, I'm pretty sure I want to own AWD next.

As I currently am with the m5, I have to change my driving dramatically 5 months out of the year. I can spin the rear tires in 4th gear at 3000 rpms if I just mash it. I have to throttle lift in aggressive corners 5 months of the year. DSC engages alot. And of course the other sacrifices of winter tires.

I think I'll have a better overall driving experience and joy out of an AWD car with some very serious UHPAS like michelin pilot sport a/s or similar. The tire technology is so good that those all seasons pretty much give the performance of a mid-level summer tire when it's 40+ degrees out.

I never thought I wanted the extra weight, parasitic drag, etc. of AWD after having owned some lower power AWD vehicles. Now, after owning a really torquey car and wanting even more power in the future, I can see why AWD is a better overall drivetrain for my climate and driving enjoyment.
 
#49 ·
I traded my 2002 E46 coupe for a TSX back in 2010... Lease is ending and I'd like to come back to BMW. But I'm finding that in the intervening time BMW is beginning to jettison the manual transmission completely for the US market.

But what's more shocking is that there's no talk of it here. I've been pouring through the threads and either I'm missing it, or no one cares.

Really? No 328xi with a stick? Really?? Not even for European delivery? Jesus H Christ.

People, we need to start a letter writing campaign, show up with pitchforks, start building voodoo dolls. Whatever. This is awful. Is Audi or Mini all that's left? Is there no way to speak up?

Steve
I too was considering a F30 stick shift, however, I also wanted an AWD and my Wife requested me to get an Automatic transmission. Yet the two things that surprised me were the fact that the 328i xDrive did not offer a manual and that an Automatic is the same cost! :confused:

If the manual was less as it was on the previous E90 (the Auto was an $800 option), I would have ordered differently. I find it hard to believe the new 8 speed is the same cost as the Manual? :dunno: It seems that BMW could have offered a 7 speed manual or some type of performance package with the manual for those who wanted it. When I bought my Acura TL in 2005, the Manuals were the same cost as the Automatics BUT Acura gave you the upgraded Brembo brakes with that stick! :thumbup:

That being said, the xDrive and the Wife's desire beat my desire to have three pedals and I am very happy with the 328i xDrive, besides, the new Automatic is quite good! :)
 
#54 ·
Indeed, if the M135i landed on our shores, I'd be at the dealer toot sweet snatching one up. Looks like a great DD.
 
#53 ·
I test drive a new 328 with XDrive yesterday. I live in Syracuse and would like the MT and XDrive. Today I went back to drive it again and the CA told me to wait until April and then I can order it with MT and XDrive. I would like to confirm this before I wait 3 months only to find out its untrue. He's trying to get me confirmation in writing from BMWna.
 
#55 ·
Great responses, all

First, thanks to everyone (well, except maybe the couple of condescending respondents) for the incredible insights. As the OP, maybe a few final thoughts so you know where my head is.

1. Is Auto better/faster/more efficient/etc? Maybe. But for me the point is that I like to be fully (as possible) engaged in the act of driving. Sure for me it's fun. But more importantly, it's engaging. Being forced to stay attentive to the engine, transmission, steering and the other drivers is as much a mental exercise as it is physical. I drive best when I'm responsible for the whole car. I'm sure some of you can pick this apart, calling out that we no longer crank our cars started or roll down our own windows... but the sentiment is mine. Your mileage may vary.

1a. It would be to BMWs advantage to encourage this thinking in their base of buyers. Seems completely consistent with the BMW ethos.

2. To those who pointed out that people don't buy sticks, I'm a person and I do. I'm in a minority, for sure, in the US - but worldwide the ratios are flipped and the data bears that out.

3. BMW most certainly does make sports cars. They may be well rounded and family suitable, but they are as enthusiast-centric as they could be. Anyone who argues to the contrary should tell that to BMW.

4. Having a stick/x-drive isn't a deal breaker. Just a preference given that I live in the north. I can certainly deal with a RWD.

Thanks again for all the great responses!

Steve
 
#56 · (Edited)
Nice summation. :thumbup:

Two points in particular caught my eye:
1a. It would be to BMWs advantage to encourage this thinking in their base of buyers. Seems completely consistent with the BMW ethos.

2. To those who pointed out that people don't buy sticks, I'm a person and I do. I'm in a minority, for sure, in the US - but worldwide the ratios are flipped and the data bears that out.
This past week I was at dinner with a small group from the CCA, including a recently retired BMW executive in a position to know about the state and fate of manuals. I recall two remarks from him that directly address those points:
1a. BMW AG is, by and large, baffled by US enthusiasts' continuing adoration of the manual transmission. They have kept sending them to us because they have been selling but think we're a bit off our collective rocker for snubbing SMGs, DCTs and modern automatics. (I've heard him, and others, say this before, for several years now.)

2. I am another manual-buying person, but as for Europe: BMW's sales of manuals are falling and falling fast. Reason? Europeans adore diesels, a diesel with a manual is about as much fun as a truck and thus diesels mated to automatics are selling in huge numbers. I admit this statement caught me quite by surprise.​
Whether we like it our not, the manual transmission in this class of car is on life support. Based on these remarks, the miniscule sales and the high cost of EPA certification (another hot topic of conversation), my personal opinion is that the F30 will be the last (non-M) 3 Series to arrive on these shores with a manual transmission.

I would love to believe otherwise but the writing is on the wall. The only thing that will erase it is sales.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top