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Increased Battery Discharge issue

97K views 315 replies 37 participants last post by  terri_atl 
#1 · (Edited)
Sorry, I know this topic has been discussed before by users, but I still have problem understanding it even after researching in many sites. I apologize if I sound too ignorant and also for this very lengthy thread.

I have a brand new 328i in March. I live in Buckhead, Atlanta. So I do basically almost everything within the buckhead area.

Around mid October, I first received a "High Battery Discharge"warning message. But it went away within a minute after I turned on the ignition.

On November 1, I was at my dental office for over 2 hours. I got into the car, drove to pick up some shipping supplies down the street. Got back into the car about 5 mins later, halfway to the mall, my mom called and I talked to her via bluetooth.

Parked the car, cut off engine and still talking to my mom. Whole conversation is about 30minutes. I know. After I hung up the phone, the "High Battery Discharge" warning came up again. I turned off the power.

Went to the mall to pick up a few items, went back to the car. The "Battery Charged Level Low" came up when I turned the power on. This was the first time I saw that and I was worried. I connected to the BMW Assist and the lady insisted I should send my car for a checkup. She connected me to the nearest service center at Global Imports. I got an appointment on Nov 5. The warning signs did not show up after that.

On November 5, the SA told me I have too few miles in the car, and likely due to my driving short distances. I looked at the diagnostics, it said
"#1 Cause was Terminal 15 was on.
#2 was unfavorable driving patterms" Battery at 53%

The technician came and explained I should really take my car to go far away places. He has suggested a trickle charger but since I live in a condominium, that won't work. Everyone zoomed in on my "unfavorable driving pattern". He also said the battery will not be under warranty if it dies.

So I have since tried to take the car to far places once a week. Honestly, this is stressful cos I have to purposely go somewhere far to get the battery charged.

One month later, today I received another "High Battery Discharge". Not sure if it was due to my stopping at the gas station to fill up the gas and again like 10minutes later. When I got back into the car after leaving the car for 10minutes, I received the "High Battery discharge" warning. The warning did not go away. After my one hour meeting at Starbucks, I did not see anymore of the "High Battery Discharge" warning for the rest of the day.

I am wondering instead of going to highway when the traffic is just as bad as the city roads, can I just drive around the city to get the battery charged. If yes, how long should I drive to get the batt charged. Would anyone be kind to tell me if this (driving short distances) is the only reason causing it. I also have a theory, could it be because I keep cutting off the engine at within sort period of time interval. I used to have a MB, and I never have such problem :(

Would appreciate if anyone can advise on this. Thank you!:cry:
 
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#105 ·
Hi ProRail: I always lock my car when I leave. The car stays at the deck, I don't have private garage. Thanks for this tip though :)
 
#106 ·
Hi Sunny: okie, before I get to send the car in, I received another "Increased Battery Discharge" this morning. Not sure if this has anything to do with the guy who was washing my car has the fob in his pocket for almost an hour. I actually took the car and ran it on highway yesterday and right after I received the "Increased Battery Discharge" today.

Anyway, I emailed the sales person who has apparently left the dealership but went on to another BMW one. He is very nice and replied promptly. He advised BMW batteries are very temperamental. He said if he leaves his M3 sitting in the garage, he will need to drive alot on highways the following week to keep it charged. He said if I don't drive at least 200 miles per week, then there is not enough activity to keep the battery charged.

What is your take on this?
 
#107 ·
If I remember correctly you've begun to drive the car on the weekends in order to increase the average drive time. Given this and the battery continues to discharge I believe the battery needs to be replaced. I would take it to the dealer and insist they replace the battery.
 
#108 ·
I intend to talk to them when I bring it in. These few weeks I am just too busy. Yes, I have taken the car out on highways and the paranoid me even went on highways on a Monday morning before my day started, and today right after I received the message. I just replied my sales person saying I didn't know BMWs only need to be driven on highways and long distance, I won't consider another BMW in future.
 
#110 ·
Hi Sunny! I know. But if my sales guy told me I need to drive at least 200 miles a week on a BMW. Don't you think BMW is not suitable for me? :(
 
#111 ·
Possibly if the 200 miles per week number is accurate. However I'm not sure it is. My total weekly commute for work is 65 miles (6.5 miles one way). Add on a few 3 - 4 mile trips and I'm comfortably below 200 miles in a week. Given I haven't (yet) experienced an increased battery discharge warning I'm not sure 200 miles per week is accurate.

The only time I've received a battery warning was in my 2006 330xi which I hardly drove (which was why I ended up getting rid of it a couple of months ago). But the battery was the original so I was not surprised it needed to be replaced. Especially given how infrequently I drove it. The battery was replaced in March of this year and I had no issues with it despite the infrequent use (though I did make a 1,500 mile trip in May).

The only way to tell would be to replace your current battery and see how it holds up (or not). Given the battery continues to discharge despite the increased driving you're doing to keep it properly charged I believe it is bad.
 
#112 ·
Ok... i just read through this thread and I'm convinced that Terri's problem is one of two things:

1 - The battery is defective

or

2 - There is a problem with the car

My wife has virtually the same driving pattern as you do, Terri. Our 328 has never once been hooked up to a trickle charger and frequently goes weeks without being driven outside a 5 mile radius, and we've never seen a battery discharge warning (if my wife had experienced this, believe me, she would have let me know). :angel:

I realize this is not necessarily a cheap answer, but if you can, I'd suggest you take it to an independent BMW shop and ask them to test the battery. If it fails, then great... you've got an answer. If it passes, then I'd pay the Indy for his/her time and head back to the dealer. There's either a module that's not shutting down and causing a drain, OR, the original battery registration is incorrect and the car isn't charging the battery correctly while you're driving.

It's very possible I've missed a post when someone has ruled these possibilities out, but I really think your driving pattern isn't to blame. We've been putting < 200/week on our car for almost 24 months without a problem.

Good luck!
 
#117 ·
After 5 Pages... Yes!!!!

RT: My driving patterns are very similar you yours (and your wife). In fact I easily only put 100 -150 miles per week on my 328 Cabrio (at 28 months of ownership I'm just shy of 16K). I am careful about not opening the top excessively without the car engine running, but I've never ever ever gotten any battery drain warnings and that is with regular 7-10 day "time outs" (every 6-8 weeks between may and september) where the car is parked in the garage when we go on va-kay to Europe.

I think Terri has a bad battery. Or at least didn't get the "Stronger Electrical Supply" indicated on my Monroney sticker.

The more I read on this thread the more I'm thinking defective battery.
 
#113 ·
Hello Sunny: I am bringing the car in next week. Let's see what they say. I took the car out on the highway again. I read somewhere but not sure if it is true, that a 30minutes drive on highway is sufficient to charge up the battery. Let's see. I have actually done that the past 3 days.
 
#114 ·
Hello rtgirard: Thank you for writing. I am happy to learn your wife does not have the same problem as me though her driving pattern is identical to mine. It is very frustrating. People here have been very patient and helpful. I am very thankful for that.

On the other hand, I am very puzzled and getting all confused (inside my head) becos that is what some people been saying here in the forum and of cos the service center, ie Driving in the city or not putting the car on highway or not driving the car far = battery not charged up = "Increased Battery Discharge" Some people seem to have such problem but some lucky ones like Sunny5280 and your wife have no such issue.

Your suggestion is good. I don't think anyone has suggested your "There's either a module that's not shutting down and causing a drain, OR, the original battery registration is incorrect and the car isn't charging the battery correctly while you're driving." I will bring these possibilities up when I head to the service center next week. Then again, it is outright obvious I know nothing about cars, and I am at the mercy of the BMW service center. I know many female drivers are really knowledgeable about their cars, unfortunately I am not one of them and I am sure the BMW service guys know.

What is an independent BMW shop? You mean an auto shop? I wonder if places like Pepboys can test battery. Oh, someone suggested a digital voltmeter cos I want to test the battery if it is holding the charge. With a digital voltmeter, is the test the same like what you have suggested? I know experts in this forum like to say Indy, what exactly is Indy? I am trying to create a detailed log for the car battery but I am just too swarmed with things to do this week and next. I believe I already hit 100miles just these 3 days (M-W) but my sales person "at least 200 miles" is not encouraging at all.
 
#116 ·
What is an independent BMW shop? You mean an auto shop? I wonder if places like Pepboys can test battery. Oh, someone suggested a digital voltmeter cos I want to test the battery if it is holding the charge. With a digital voltmeter, is the test the same like what you have suggested? I know experts in this forum like to say Indy, what exactly is Indy? I am trying to create a detailed log for the car battery but I am just too swarmed with things to do this week and next. I believe I already hit 100miles just these 3 days (M-W) but my sales person "at least 200 miles" is not encouraging at all.
I would not bother with the voltmeter as to obtain anything useful would require more familiarity with electronics than I suspect you have. You could take it to a place like Pepboys for a load test which would be a better gauge of the battery condition.

However the most telling thing to me is you've been driving the car and the battery continues to become exhausted despite the increased driving you've been doing. This suggests the battery is no longer capable of holding a sufficient charge for any length of time and needs to be replaced. Keep in mind Acoms Razor ("The simplest explanation tends to be the correct one.")
 
#115 ·
An Indy is

A shop that specializes in BMW repair but is not a dealer or directly associated with BMW.
Often the staff will be mechanics that have worked at BMW dealerships and the better shops will have sent there mechanics to BMW training schools to keep there knowledge current . So they will have specific knowledge on your car .
Sometime they will do other Euro Cars to.
They will charge you much less for the same repairs than what you would get
at most dealerships.
There is a list of known good ones somewhere on this board I think.
 
#118 ·
Ctuna: hello again!! Thanks for the explanation. I sure feel like an idiot here :(

There is no one shop here that specializes in BMWs but I think there is a shop in my area which mainly repairs European cars. I may check with them.

Thanks again. Sunny thinks a voltmeter won't help me given my extreme lack of electronic skill ;P I guess so *sigh*
 
#119 ·
sunny: ok you are right about my lack of electronic skills. I thought I just need to note readings on the voltmeter to see if the battery has any increased of charge after say I take it to highways or if it maintains a charge say after I get it fully charged at the dealer. Ok, I hate to admit but keeping it real, I wonder if I even know how to open the hood. I need to prep myself when I go into the service center next week. I wonder if the service center will pinned it on my first 7 months of unfavorable driving pattern and thereby refused to replace the battery. The technician did say battery is not covered under warranty :(
 
#120 ·
Hello Nordic: today the weather is sunny at 70F n I didn't even put the top down. Well, I just have to put the facts out to the service center and see what they say. For some reasons, I don't think they will easily replace the battery for free :( Thanks for writing, at least now I know there are some of you who have similar driving patterns as me but have none of my issue.
 
#123 ·
Hi yikes, Sunny, Ctuna and all..

I have dropped my car this morning for another round of checkup.. The SA just called and said the #1 cause is Terminal 15 was on (according to the diagnostic test). He said basically that is like leaving the keyfob in the car. I told him that's totally an error then cos I live on the 9th floor, the car parked on the 5th. I locked my car every time I parked and of cos the keyfob goes with me home on the 9th. He said he understood what I was saying, but if they submit the test to BMW, BMW will not pay for the new battery. I said that was the same diagnosis the last time, Terminal 15 was on. But that time no one wanted to explain about #1 Cause, ie terminal 15 was on but all blamed it on my "unfavorable driving pattern". So I told him I should not be paying the battery cos now he was telling me the cause of this irrational battery pattern was due to "Terminal 15"? He said he would talk to his Manager. That was more than an hour ago when he called, he hasn't call back. So I am wondering even if the battery is replaced, the problem, ie the faulty Terminal 15 , still needs to be fixed. Seems like their solution is just to replace battery.
 
#129 · (Edited)
Hi yikes, Sunny, Ctuna and all..

I have dropped my car this morning for another round of checkup.. The SA just called and said the #1 cause is Terminal 15 was on (according to the diagnostic test). He said basically that is like leaving the keyfob in the car. I told him that's totally an error then cos I live on the 9th floor, the car parked on the 5th. I locked my car every time I parked and of cos the keyfob goes with me home on the 9th. He said he understood what I was saying, but if they submit the test to BMW, BMW will not pay for the new battery. I said that was the same diagnosis the last time, Terminal 15 was on. But that time no one wanted to explain about #1 Cause, ie terminal 15 was on but all blamed it on my "unfavorable driving pattern". So I told him I should not be paying the battery cos now he was telling me the cause of this irrational battery pattern was due to "Terminal 15"? He said he would talk to his Manager. That was more than an hour ago when he called, he hasn't call back. So I am wondering even if the battery is replaced, the problem, ie the faulty Terminal 15 , still needs to be fixed. Seems like their solution is just to replace battery.
He said it was "like leaving the keyfob in the car". Does this mean he performed the test with the keyfob outside of the car and obtained this result? From what I've been able to research Terminal 15 on is essentially "Leaving the key on". Is it his conclusion you've been leaving the key on?

This may be of some help:

http://www.justanswer.com/bmw/1fqya-2008-bmw-535i-previously-headlamps-in-automatic-mode.html

Most importantly a way to diagnosis is to see if the calibration sequence is repeated once the key is "removed" from the car and the alloted time passed (15 seconds). I would recommend you put the key in, turn the car on, and see if the headlight calibration sequence occurs. Then remove the key, wait 15 (or 30) seconds, then turn the car back on. If the car performs the calibration sequence again then the car recognized the key was removed. If not then that would indicate a problem. At least that's the way I'm reading it. And, of course, this may not be a definitive test.

While I'm no expert it stands to reason if the keyfob is not in the car and the diagnosis comes back with an error indicating a condition as if the keyfob is in the car then there is a problem with the car that needs to be fixed. And until it is fixed a replacement battery will be subject to the same issue and end up in the same condition as your current battery.

Does you car have Comfort Access?

As for the unfavorable driving conditions I assumed you explained to him you have been taking the car out for long drives on the weekends?
 
#124 ·
oh I mean I did not tell the SA why they just blame on my "unfavorable driving pattern" and zero mention on the "Terminal 15 was on" the last time. I just find that they simply blame it on my few miles in the car. This morning he just said 600+ miles for 4 weeks are really too few :(
 
#126 ·
hello x26: the SA still hasn't call back yet :( I am wondering what took so long? I doubt I am getting my car back tonite and that gets me really anxious :(
 
#128 ·
Global Imports. Please don't send them any "coal" before they fix my car. I wonder if they are trying to stall this matter until I will "surrender" & say I will pay for the battery. I won't be able to sleep well tonite, wondering what they doing to my car.
 
#130 ·
Sunny!!!! Yes I told him the car has been out many days a week on the highways at least 30mins. Thanks to someone in this forum, I actually learned how to test the voltage on the car battery when car is idle or when it is moving using whatever is on the car. I even logged down that info for the past 5 days. I have also given a list of dates which have the "Increased Battery Discharge" warning. Btw, after having the car out 5 out of 7 days last week, 2 days ago I have the "Battery Charged Level Low" popped up.

The SA did say it is like having "the key inside the car" which you know how can it be possible when I live in a highrise condo where I park on the 5th floor and live on the 9th floor. The parking deck is 3rd-7th. There is no way anyone can say my keyfob is in the car or near the car. After I explained to him, he said he understood what I was saying but if they are to submit the report to BMW, BMW is not going to pay for the battery. I am not sure why he just said battery, I hope he meant they will also fix the problem and get that battery replaced. But that doesn't mean I have to pay for the battery when actually this whole episode stemming from November could be all caused by "terminal 15". I don't know exactly how they run the test, he just said they run diagnostics and no matter how they test, the cause was "terminal 15 was on".

Guess I am not getting my car back since it is already after 7pm. I miss my car. I have gotten a loaner, it's just different and really uncomfortable.

Oh, and my car does have comfort access.
 
#131 ·
Sunny!!!! Yes I told him the car has been out many days a week on the highways at least 30mins. Thanks to someone in this forum, I actually learned how to test the voltage on the car battery when car is idle or when it is moving using whatever is on the car. I even logged down that info for the past 5 days. I have also given a list of dates which have the "Increased Battery Discharge" warning. Btw, after having the car out 5 out of 7 days last week, 2 days ago I have the "Battery Charged Level Low" popped up.

The SA did say it is like having "the key inside the car" which you know how can it be possible when I live in a highrise condo where I park on the 5th floor and live on the 9th floor. The parking deck is 3rd-7th. There is no way anyone can say my keyfob is in the car or near the car. After I explained to him, he said he understood what I was saying but if they are to submit the report to BMW, BMW is not going to pay for the battery. I am not sure why he just said battery, I hope he meant they will also fix the problem and get that battery replaced. But that doesn't mean I have to pay for the battery when actually this whole episode stemming from November could be all caused by "terminal 15". I don't know exactly how they run the test, he just said they run diagnostics and no matter how they test, the cause was "terminal 15 was on".

Guess I am not getting my car back since it is already after 7pm. I miss my car. I have gotten a loaner, it's just different and really uncomfortable.

Oh, and my car does have comfort access.
I take your not getting the car back as a good thing...at least for the moment. I suspect the service department is attempting to look further into the problem.

With that said if the #1 diagnosis is "Terminal 15 On" and the key is not in the car then there is a problem with the car and it needs to be fixed. Unless it's his position you are leaving the key in the car.
 
#132 ·
sunny: I hope you are right about that part, ie they are looking into the problem. I don't think any logical person will believe I will leave my key in my car when it is a non private garage. I don't think he believes the key was really in the car from the last conversation, ie why he said if they submit the report, BMW is not going to pay for the battery. He sounded like he was in a difficult position. But it is not fair to make me pay when clearly there is a problem and it's just one of those faults ie not in any typical situation.
 
#133 ·
I don't think he's in a difficult position. It's his job to properly diagnosis and fix the problem. If the car doesn't shut down because it cannot detect the key has been removed from the vehicle despite the fact it has then it's broken. Given the information we have it's the only rational explanation.
 
#134 ·
Sunny: I have a feeling he was supposed to ask me to pay for the battery. I have heard dealer has to fork out the battery if it is not covered by BMW. I am sure Global Imports or any dealer will try not to pay if possible. So perhaps usually when "terminal 15 was on", this fault may just applied to people who have their own garage., just thankfully at this time, I have none.

I have read from the warranty booklet on the Battery Care, it states "if car is driven short distances of less than 10 miles over a prolonged period of time, without an occasional drive at highway speeds, the engine's charging system will not maintain the battery." Clearly, I have been taking care of the battery and I have not abused the battery based on BMW's standard. So my warranty of the battery should not be voided. Btw, I have also read up, it does not state anywhere in the Service & Warranty Information that battery is not covered under the warranty. Regardless, even though say someone has own private garage and my same issue happens to them, BMW should still cover it unless the owner repeatedly does the placing keyfob in the car after getting battery replaced before.

Totally agree something is broken :(
 
#135 ·
If the #1 cause of the battery discharge is the "Terminal 15 On" issue then you, nor the dealer, should have to cover the cost of a new battery. The "Terminal 15 On" issue likely resulted in damage to the battery and therefore should be covered as part of the repair.
 
#136 ·
Not sure, the SA did say if they submit the report, BMW is not going to pay for the battery :(
 
#137 · (Edited)
Ok this is sounding crazy! My SA finally called, he said he has spoken to his Manager and the most they can do is not charge any labor cost. Battery? $258!! I said I have looked up the warranty booklet that came with the car, battery is under warranty. Told him I got the car for less than a year and something is broken. He said unfortunately for that particular fault, BMW will not cover the battery. Told the SA it is not fair cos the reason of this whole episode is "key in the car or leaving the radio on every time" which is what this "Terminal 15 was on". The SA said he agreed with me (ie not fair for me cos there is no way I would have do that in a condo bldg), I have also asked battery aside if they are going to fix the problem since the car is not sleeping. He said no cos they don't find any problem. This is really confusing me. Anyway, I said Global Imports should do a courtesy swap, he said he would talk to the manager again.
 
#138 · (Edited)
Deleted.

Another update: The SA called this morning, said the battery replacement is what they will recommend me. There is still abit life in the battery. Same position $258 for battery, no labor cost :(

Told him I will drive over and talk to the manager.
 
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