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People Switched from E90 to F30 - Please comment

139K views 594 replies 94 participants last post by  sle39lvr 
#1 ·
I am currently a E90 owner, an I am starting to like my car more and more everyday.


Other than what's on paper, I want to know what are your thoughts on living with E90 day to day vs F30.

I heard everywhere that the interior quality has improved over E90. I recently got to sit in a F30 and I do have to say they Did cut back on 'soft-touch' plastic on certain surfaces.
 
#133 ·
I think if you drive all the time like you want to register a record mpg out of the car, you will be more successful with the N20 than with the N52.

But if you drive for maximum fun all the time, the two will be very close, except of course if trying to break your mpg record is your definition of driving fun.
 
#148 ·
wow, i came in to comment on the original question. and its a full on flamefest :yikes:

i'm coming from two E90 335i sedans, one 6MT RWD and the other 6AT AWD. I've test driven an N20 AWD 8AT and currently drive an N55 RWD 6MT

thoughts:
the suspension on both the 328 X drive (standard) and my car, DHP 335i is more composed and softer (on my car, in comfort mode) than both my E90s. softer in a good way, both of my old cars were pre suspension change, and had the "pothole explosion" shocks. the suspension on the F30 328i xdrive felt more composed than a 2011 328i XDrive loaner i had for almost two weeks two months ago (sandy stranded my car at the dealer as they had no power). I hated the crashy-bangy suspension on my 2010 along with the floaty, rolling feeling the non sport suspension gave. very happy with the F30 suspension in both comfort and sport mode.

steering on the F30 in non sport mode is lighter and a little weird feeling-- i was test driving an E90 two days ago for my brother, and for a moment thought the power steering on the car was broken-- i had gotten used to the power steering on my F30 which i had been driving in comfort mode as NYC pothole season has started in earnest. in sport mode it tightens up alot and feels very good, almost as good as the steering in my old E46 ( late 2001 build car with heavier steering rack).

engine - the N20 has alot more punch than the N52. it did feel a little less smooth. i went with the N55 as it seemed better suited to a 6MT. The N55 does not feel as powerful as my outgoing N54, but that car had the performance power kit and performance exhaust. the N55 does have a nice exhaust burble on decel. smooth power delivery.

interior- at first glance, the F30 interior looks a little cheaper, only because the dash material is a little shinier. from a tactile perspective, it feels better put together, more refined. BMW spent more time on the details of the interior. the center stack has a better layout, and the switch gear has a more solid feel. two examples i can think of are the iDrive controller and the cruise control buttons.
even the cupholders look like they were designed in (vs tacked on in the e9x)
 
#153 ·
I'm not in to all the stats, but after almost a year and 13k miles with my 328i I can honestly say the engine is the best part of the car, and my last car had one of the smoothest non-DI sixes around. Also, had E90 328 loaners on 2-3 occasions and they feel much, much slower than the N20.
 
#154 ·
The N52 was a gem, no substitute in this segment for a long time, BMW could have easily kept it, made it more powerful and more efficient with the 8spd. The high power version made 270 hp.

Unfortunately it did not happen. So if you are an N/A person, and refuse to go below 6, there are other brands available, and I am not talking about C350, ATS 3.6 or G37, but more higher end brands.

Sometimes you have to pay to play.
 
#155 ·
If BMW bucked the trend, I would have been all for an all aluminum 2.5L in-line six with a small twin scroll and direct injection, 265hp/270lbs tq, then have the N55 at 330/330.

Not only would I have been all for it, I would have paid $500-800 more than what I did for the N20.
 
#162 ·
How is that making progress?

I basically made a hypothetical wish.

I am the one in fantasyland and you are in the past and want something BMW simply isnt doing.

Maybe you too are here with us in fantasyland and just don't. Know it.
 
#172 ·
I took pictures, showing my average MPH, what mode I was in, and that it was 60-70% highway.

I own the car, I drive the car, I state factual events...

Am I stating LONG term 30+ tanks. Nope. I have had plenty of 28mpg tanks. The ownership average over my 5k, is likely between 28-29.5mpg. 60-70% of all my driving is highway at 80mph in Sport.

But my experience has a hell of a lot more validity than yours in which you have none and just state everyone else's first hand experience on the forums is wrong.
 
#176 ·
Like I said, BMW has been doing M-Sport and M-Tech packages for 20+ years now.

The M-Sport does not have any exterior M badges(aside from the wheels which are happily gone from my car).

My friend's '99 E36 328is almost indistinguishable from a same year M3.

You could even get an M appearance package on the 318ti.

I find much more offense to M badges being put on by people.
 
#183 ·
On the positive side, at least BMW offers a 335i with a great 6 cylinder engine that gets similar fuel economy at around $3000 more for an equivalent set of options. The Audi world I came from required you to shell out almost $10k to go from the A4 to S4, trade in the ZF 8HP for a shuffle-happy DCT on hills, and also lose a few mpg city and highway in the process.
 
#186 · (Edited)
Oh my god. He writes all in bold now. He *mad*.


No you didn't. If you thought you did, then you failed. Your BS is not good enough to counter the facts. There are plenty of good reasons to own a F30. Unfortunately, a N20 is not one of them. Would be at home in a Jetta. For the rest, the F30 is just fine.... as a 335i.
I replied in bold since it was within your quote, it's much easier to read my additions that way. :angel:

My BS is not good enough to counter the facts, again-who says? You have no authority to say so :)

I will copy and paste it again, the base car engines in the entry level lux segment:

"So in the proper segment that the 3 series competes in....

IS=out of date, base engine 2.5L V-6 is a dog
ATS=handling/steering aside, the 2.0T is not as smooth as the N20, makes about the same power though claims to have much more, and weights 50-100lbs more than the 328(low weight claim for the ATS is low optioned 2.5).
G37=This is the bang for the buck winner. The 2.5L was dropped. The G is old and the Q V-6 is known to be a bit thrashy and in some ways is faster than the N20, others not. The MPG advantage of the N20 is LARGE. But for a $299 lease, the G37 gives nearly 335 levels of performance to value shoppers
C250=The N20 is far more powerful and offers greater efficiency. The C350 BARELY equals the N20 in terms of performance. Sad.
A4=The Torque rich 2.0TSI is the best competing 4 cylinder in many ways. It is quite underrated just like the N20. The N20 still has a slight edge.
S60=Basically a FWD car with a odd 5 cylinder. Not quite competitive here.
(I left out Acura-nothing anymore competitive than what is already listed BTW)

So there you have it. BMW is out to make money and to be competitive. Fact is, the N20 F30 is VERY class competitive if not class leading."

Please, show me how I FAILED at comparing base engines in the entry-level luxury class. I dare you. :thumbup:
 
#187 · (Edited)
I think its been mentioned here but my first two impressions between my ownership of an E90 335i and now an F30 335i - and granted, I haven't had the E90 in a while, so this is just my poor memory, but what strikes me. I'm curious who agrees or not...

1) cockpit feel. The controls of the car and the displays - from NAV to HUD, all give me more of a wrapped-in kind of feeling than I remember having with my E90. The materials aren't even as nice (I don't think) when individually assessed - but when taken overall the feel is amazing, even with the chassis so large under me. When I sat in the E90 I don't remember it feeling quite as form-fitted as my F30 feels. Does anyone agree?

2) transmission. The 8AT is tight. Also, the steering, while disconnected, is precise. Going further than the AT, the two seem to combine to give me a very aim-and-shoot kind of feeling that I'm loving. It is a bit electronic and removed but also rewarding in its own right. Kind of best-of-class for fly-by-wire. Thoughts?
 
#189 ·
I think its been mentioned here but my first two impressions between my ownership of an E90 335i and now an F30 335i - and granted, I haven't had the E90 in a while, so this is just my poor memory, but what strikes me. I'm curious who agrees or not...

1) cockpit feel. The controls of the car and the displays - from NAV to HUD, all give me more of a wrapped-in kind of feeling than I remember with the E90. The materials aren't even as nice I don't think when individually assessed but overall the feel is amazing, even with the chassis so large under me. I sat in the other car and it wasn't all quite as form fitted as this feels. Does anyone agree?
I understand exactly what you're talking about. My E60 had the "in the cockpit" feel. It was one of the things I loved about that car. I was so disappointed when it was time to sell it that the F10 had lost it. That "feel" was one of the reasons I chose the E60 over the E90 in the first place. I never could have been happy with the E90 for a lot of reasons. Fortunately the F30 seems to correct almost everyone of the things I did not like about the previous generation.
 
#188 ·
Call me nuts but I actually like the feel of the F30 steering compared to the E90. The 2011 328i I've driven was a bit too sports car like for my taste as a daily driver. Parking the car is like wrestling a dead alligator, and when driving on imperfect highway pavement, the steering transmits so much road feel that it's massaging my arms.

The F30 steering might be mute but it is direct and accurate.
 
#349 ·
The best bet is to cover all the bases and have a 3 a 7 a Rolex and Patek Philippe.

CA
I have a 3, a P-Car, a Rolex and a Patek Philippe. Does that qualify?
 
#351 ·
#193 · (Edited)
Road feel does not necessarily imply harshness and comfort and refinement do not necessarily imply isolation and numbness.
It is possible to have a refined, comfortable car with very good road feel.

CA
 
#194 · (Edited)
Road feel has nothing to do with harshness and and it is possible to have a refined, comfortable car with good road feel.

CA
That's precisely what the F30 is. Doesn't handle like a tank in the driveway, doesn't explode in potholes on the highway. I couldn't be happier for day-to-day driving.

And, again, we're talking fractions here compared to the E90. E46 different story, night and day. But compared to the E90, the F30 is what, 2% less responsive, blindfolded you wouldn't be able to tell one car from the other on the highway or on local streets. It's much ado about nothing by people looking to nitpick. Always something to whine about, these enthusiasts.

BJ
 
#206 ·
I had an f30 loaner a few months back while my car was in for its free oil change. I got to drive it a little over 100 miles for the day so I had enough time to evaluate the differences. First and foremost the speed difference. Totally awesome compared to my 2011 328. Nuf said as you all know this already! Steering is subjective because you get used to what your daily driver is. My previously car that I still own is a y2k Maxima so when I occasionally drive it I almost oversteer the car until I get used to it because the wheel spins so freely. When I first drove my e90 I actually felt like I couldn't one hand parallel park because the steering was two heavy. My point is anyone coming from an e90 will feel the difference, but forget and actually like the f30 feel better the more they drive one.

Lot of debate about gas mileage and premium gas that makes me smile. These cars are made to driven at higher speeds than legal in America. These cars cost more than other cars in the same class as well. I didn't buy this car worried about getting 28 mph. It's too fun to drive to worry about and ruins the experience if you do. I also only put premium in my car regardless of the price difference between it and mid grade because the BMW recommends it and I would spend more on cigars or booze then I would save using a lower grade of gas! I realize money is tight in this economy, but if we have worry about mpg or premium gas consumption maybe we should be looking elsewhere for a car that gets 40 mpg and is less expensive. Hopefully I will be looking to buy an f30 within the next 6 months for my wife (or thats what I'll tell her) as the f30 looks, drives, and is technically superior to my e90. I may not have the fastest or most fuel efficient car around, but I have a blast driving this car everyday and in the end that's what it's all about.
 
#240 · (Edited)
Are you trying to play big shot with me or something? Spare me your marketing effort and your endless BS. lol! You are wasting my time and yours. BTW, what you failed to do (i.e. getting a professional degree in mechanical engineering), *I did*. j/k. ;) :p

So you say. :rolleyes:
I may be a big shot if you think I am! :angel: I feel like you are the one with endless BS, you have wasted plenty of my time. I am now in the mood to have fun at your expense :p

I am just having fun talking about whatever random thing comes into my head. Since talking to you seems to just bring out random crap about random cars and random figures. I thought I would share a little story that puts a bit of perspective that counters your biased interpretation of my counters being marketing based.

Don't come at me bro with ME BS :bigpimp:. The ratio of ME guys to ID(Industrial Design-me) guys, supply and demand. I have worked with, interviewed and hired 100 mechanical engineers over the years. I have successfully engineered quite a few products(with no formal training) when companies were too cheap to hire a proper engineer or let them go. Meanwhile, my engineers hate the idea of having to wear the designer hat and let me do my thing :)

Keep this up and I will need to validate myself by posting cars I have designed, posting my portfolio and whipping out my e-pen...I mean resume hahaha :p

edit: In all seriousness, my best friends are all engineers. A lot of them out there do not have much social skills(cannot give or take a joke) or personality. Hearing you have an ME as a background makes some sense to me from going back and forth on some excruciatingly specific details. But you obviously at least have a sense of humor and personality-even if I want to scream from listening to it lol.
 
#241 · (Edited)
You are just the expert on everything aren't ya.

An engine like the N20, or most any modern small displacement turbo engine is designed with a lot of factors in mind, one of them of course being longevity.

BMW stress tested the block of the N20 like any other and wants it to last a couple hundred thousand miles. They over build and over engineer.

16-18psi is not high boost for this or any modern well engineered 2.0L 4.


We don't share the same definition of "high" then. Which one of these has the highest pressure? 2.0T in a 200HP VW Passat? 2.0T in an 211HP A4? 2.0T in a 270HP TTS? N55? None of them has higher turbo pressure than the N20. So yes, that qualifies as "high". Not the highest (GM runs at 20 on factory modified engines), but "high", it is. The N55 runs at much lower.

Unless you have specific knowledge of what BMW considers acceptable, I don't care about what you assume.
 
#243 ·


We don't share the same definition of "high" then. Which one of these has the highest pressure? 2.0T in a 200HP VW Passat? 2.0T in an 211HP A4? 2.0T in a 270HP TTS? N55? None of them has higher turbo pressure than the N20. So yes, that qualifies as "high". Not the highest (GM runs at 20 on modified engines), but "high", it is. The N55 runs at much lower.

Unless you have specific knowledge of what BMW considers acceptable, I don't care about what you assume.
From experience, FI 6's run quite a bit less boost than small displacement, this is kind of a no brainer. When I had a Z32 300Zx, I think the twin turbo made like 9-10psi. I am sure the N55 is similar.

Meanwhile, I had a Viggen. It was plastered all over the media that it made over 20psi. It doesn't. It is CAPABLE of up to 20psi, the cars ecu would account for things such as elevation to hit target air mass so it made the same power at sea level or high elevation. This could be done by boosting UP TO 20.3psi. When a gauge was strapped to my car, it peaked at 13psi at sea level and when bolt on's thrown at it, 18.5psi.

So again, do not get hung up on the N20 boosting at 16-18psi as that is peak. Off boost it's an NA engine, probably 150hp lol. But on command, when called for it can PEAK at 18psi. Increasing that max a couple PSI when done with proper fueling is not a big deal.

I do not need to know what BMW considers acceptable. Manufactured things are built with tolerances. My BMW clutch holds MORE power than it actually needs to(my S52 clutch is stock lol), the N20 is not any different. If it was made to endure and handle only the exact boost it makes from the factory and no more, a lot more engines would grenade. Aside from handling boost, what about the engines that exceed oil changes, that maybe occasionally over-rev, that might see track days, might see excessive stop and go. Engines are over-engineered to account for such things. That includes a couple of psi.

When making a product I have had to anticipate all the ways something is to be used properly and improperly, I often have to build in a bit extra.

Your Mr. Mechanical Engineer. You should know all of this :eeps:
 
#242 ·
I may be a big shot if you think I am! I feel like you are the one with endless BS, you have wasted plenty of my time. I am now in the mood to have fun at your expense :p
Well then you have too much free time. :)

In the meanwhile, we saw the marketing guy who claims that he responded to basic facts, but failed to do so. And aligning three other empty paragraphs of your own won't change that. :angel:
 
#244 ·
Well then you have too much free time. :)
I have been off of work for like a week now on Vacation, its winter, I am bored. Otherwise I would have not engaged you in such dribble going on about cars you do not own in the forum you do not intend to become a member of as you slam elements of a car because BMW will not build you the unicorn that does not exist. :thumbup:
 
#274 ·
I posted this impression of the F30 in another thread, but I think it's relevant here. As my immediate point of reference was an E46 6 speed manual coupe that I drove for 6 years. A purist car of sorts.

Took the 335i through Old Topanga and back yesterday aftenoon, now that it's broken in. It felt every bit a tossable 3 Series. I wasn't sure how it would corner on some of those really tight twisties since the Sport susension is more "refined" than the M. The run flats scrubbed a bit on really hard corners, but were remarkably good considering all the flack you here about them. Car felt very flat in the turns.

The turbo really pulls on the climb and of course the cabin is much quieter than the M3. Steering in Sports mode felt tight and stable.

There is one really sharp jog to the right going Northbound not far from New Topanga. The rock hillside is very close to the lane. It put the pucker factor in when driving my old 530i. One of the first things I noticed when I got an E46 325i was you could power on around that bend and remain in your lane quite easily. My first experience with a 3er. The F30 has that same feel.

Thinking about it, I've been driving that canyon since 1971 starting with motorcycles and various cars through the years. A good reference for one's ride.

Purist? All I know is I don't miss the M3. Seems to me, if all you wanted was a DD any F30 will fill the bill. But that doesn't mean if you love driving in more than a straight line an F30 is not a purist kind of sport sedan.
 

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#275 ·
I posted this impression of the F30 in another thread, but I think it's relevant here. As my immediate point of reference was an E46 6 speed manual coupe that I drove for 6 years. A purist car of sorts.

Took the 335i through Old Topanga and back yesterday aftenoon, now that it's broken in. It felt every bit a tossable 3 Series. I wasn't sure how it would corner on some of those really tight twisties since the Sport susension is more "refined" than the M. The run flats scrubbed a bit on really hard corners, but were remarkably good considering all the flack you here about them. Car felt very flat in the turns.

The turbo really pulls on the climb and of course the cabin is much quieter than the M3. Steering in Sports mode felt tight and stable.

There is one really sharp jog to the right going Northbound not far from New Topanga. The rock hillside is very close to the lane. It put the pucker factor in when driving my old 530i. One of the first things I noticed when I got an E46 325i was you could power on around that bend and remain in your lane quite easily. My first experience with a 3er. The F30 has that same feel.

Thinking about it, I've been driving that canyon since 1971 starting with motorcycles and various cars through the years. A good reference for one's ride.

Purist? All I know is I don't miss the M3. Seems to me, if all you wanted was a DD any F30 will fill the bill. But that doesn't mean if you love driving in more than a straight line an F30 is not a purist kind of sport sedan.
Good input,

I think you can support, that if something was "decreased" in the F30, it was not drastic and decreasing is not the same as eliminating. And while somethings were decreased, others were increased in a positive way.
 
#276 ·
2013 BMW 335i

I have to say, and I'm new to this forum but not to BMWs - I LOVE my F30. I had a 2007 328i Coupe and loved that car as well. But this new one, is utterly divine. Aesthetically, it's a head turner. I particularly love the looks Audi and MB owners give. Honestly, owning a BMW is like rediscovering that part of your soul that has been missing or is dormant and waking it up. Driving to work is no longer a commute, it's a straight out adventure.
Now, the coupe had its advantages no doubt, but I do not feel like I've lost anything going to a sedan. The F30 performs blissfully. The ONLY issue I have is the automatic turn off when the car is idling in traffic or at a light. But a simple button click fixes that.
 
#277 ·
I have to say, and I'm new to this forum but not to BMWs - I LOVE my F30. I had a 2007 328i Coupe and loved that car as well. But this new one, is utterly divine. Aesthetically, it's a head turner. I particularly love the looks Audi and MB owners give. Honestly, owning a BMW is like rediscovering that part of your soul that has been missing or is dormant and waking it up. Driving to work is no longer a commute, it's a straight out adventure.
Now, the coupe had its advantages no doubt, but I do not feel like I've lost anything going to a sedan. The F30 performs blissfully. The ONLY issue I have is the automatic turn off when the car is idling in traffic or at a light. But a simple button click fixes that.
You can have the auto-off re-coded by your dealer for free. I had mine done before delivery. It stays off. Only when going into ECo-Pro is it re-activated, one press of the OFF button and it remembers until the next time only re-active if you leave EcoPro and go back to it.
 
#286 ·
I am not aware anyone who is commenting about F30 but has no first hand experience with it.

It all depends on the subject. Obviously if he is commenting on the look of the F30, he dose not have to drive it first, or if he is comparing the EPA mpg between the F30 N20 and F10 N52, he does not have to log the mpg in an F30 for a week before he can speak on the subject.

Or if he is talking about 5-60 time, not driving it does not dismiss what he has to say, because he is referring to facts provided by the mags.

But if he is discussing the drive feel, yes he has less credibility in this subject unless he had driven it.
 
#287 · (Edited)
There have been countless posts where people comment in relation to driving/steering feel that start with, "I have not actually driven an F30 yet...but".

All of your Saintor figure rehashing is unneeded. Again, why do you seem to be speaking for other people who are more than competent at speaking for themselves.

Saintor had figures I did not agree with, and he did not agree with mine. Just because I did not agree it did not mean anything about his ownership or lack of ownership of an F30. All he was doing was digging up magazine specifications to his liking while dismissing other figures of my liking from the very same article. No need for you to turn it into something more, this F30 owner racism where you are not allowed to speak or have an opinion contrary to mine lol. :bawling:

You are making it out like I was a victor in all of this, a bully, and that people came to my aid and no one to the aid of those with an opposing view. I bet the people on the other side still think I was wrong and they are right which makes your statements seem null and void.
 
#299 ·
All three posts quoted above are legit comments, they all admitted they had not driven an F30, but commented on the steering feedback, based on some level of consensus by others.

I personally will not hold people to such a high standard that they must first drive the car, before they can comment on something people have pretty much built a consensus on, in this case, the steering feedback, or lack of it.
 
#300 · (Edited)
If a person was to make a decision, and was wanting information to help decide between alternatives...

Lets say your company says we are going to give you a raise if you relocate to one of two different states.

You ask around for feedback.

There are people who say:

1) I have been to neither of those states, I cannot say
2 ) I have only been to one of the states, so I cannot say which is better, but here is my account of one of them
3) I have been to both states numerous times, they both have a lot going for them, here is what you may or may not prefer-this is my preference
4) I have only been to one of the states, but I read an article somewhere that the other state is terrible.

Now to me, 1-3 are honest and helpful. 4-can be helpful-but a bit biased. Now what happens if you go around and ask more and more people, but person number 4 walks over each time and repeats themselves over and over.

Let me tell you, many people posting in this section are that way, and if you do not find it annoying-that is great for you. These same people are going out of their way to repeat themselves in THIS section. People like me, our job is not to police the internet and find every corner where someone does not agree with us on the F30. But coming to the F30 section and constantly repeating the same thing when admitting you have not done your homework-that you are just going to go sheep-style and go by the magazines and others first hand accounts-yep, really annoying. But you feel entitled to do so. I am just as entitled to be annoyed and counter with first hand experience of driving the cars in questions, not just reading about it, or what that guy said.

There are other people in here that do find it annoying too.
 
#301 ·
Moving the steering wheel button from the right side of the column to the left side did NOTHING for its useability. It can't be seen, and the on/off state cannot be felt with the hands.

Several times I've wondered if I pressed it hard enough to activate it. The only way to tell is with a dental mirror, the door open, or making a sharp turn.

Put it on the front of the steering wheel like on the E39. For those who don't order the option, turn it inot an HVAC recirc button or something.

Or put it on the top of the steering column where at least it would be visible.
 
#302 ·
Never found that to annoy me.

What about the trunk pop button? Anyone else find that to be ergonomically terrible? Our Saab has it right under the door pull down from the window switches, I never have to give it a second thought to find it.
 
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