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E46 Vs. E9x, Just my thoughts

10K views 48 replies 16 participants last post by  floydarogers 
#1 ·
OK, now i know that this same topic has been posted more times that people can count, but no matter. Recently, my father added a new car to the family; a 2007 335i convertible. Originally he was going to look at a CLK550, but after a ton of pestering from me about what a clot he would look, he test drove the 335i and wanted to keep a BMW in his life, so he did, bought it used for 29xxx with a little bit of the warranty left on it. naturally, since i convinced him to but it, he let me take it for a spin. here are some of the things i noticed that are different from my beloved 330ci.

-Im sorry, but what happened to the "C" indicating that its a coupe? i have no idea why they got rid of that
-The twin turbos in this engine throw you back like no other 3 series (other than the M3) ever has, its amazing, i had the AC on, and the automatic gearbox in "automatic" mode all i know is i got up to about 50MPH pretty damn quick.
-The automatic gearbox doesnt really work. maybe im just used to the stick, but typically with an auto i feel the car coast without any gas, but not in this. its almost like the car wants to make you think you have a stick. OK, the paddles are fun to putz around with for like 5 minutes, and then i want my clutch back.
-one of the big disappointments with the E9X was the interior.. i hated it. the gauge cluster is too crammed for the size of the dash, i miss the 4 separate gauges, in this one there is only two big ones , with the other two smaller ones inside. i dont like the feel of the leather, it almost feels cheap. i hate the iDrive, or whatever they call it these days, its just inconvenient. i hate how if you have one of those paper cups from like McDonalds they sweat and get all over the center console because of that afterthought that is a cupholder. i could go on. AND I HATE, I MEAN HATE, THE WINDOWS NOT ON THE CENTER CONSOLE. WHY? JUST WHY? And that really makes me upset, its almost like our generation cars were made better, better quality.
-Handling: One of the first things i noticed was the very tight steering, i dont know whether i like that or not. when im on a road, yes, of course, turn the power steering off completely, but when im trying to park, it just becomes a nuisance. i know that because its a convertible it doesnt handle as well as a coupe, but it handles about the same as my car.
-No oil dipstick: REALLY, come on BMW..

all in all, i dont know about this car. its unbelievably fast for a normal 3, no doubt. but it doesnt really "feel" like a BMW, it just feels like a nice car, it doesnt really have that BMW styling that i love so much, that BMW interior design that sells the car practically.
would i buy the car, yes. would i miss my E46? no question. i know my father does, he tells me every day.

for those who have driven both, i assume most of you have, post your thoughts, im interested to hear them
 
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#2 ·
I`ve driven a few iterations of the E9x, and am pretty sure that I would be disappointed in anything other than an M3....
 
#3 ·
The e9x's are nice but the 328i I drove seem to be lost of its "soul" doesn't feel anything like my 323ci

my buddy's gf recently got a 135i and it looks nice, I've yet to see if she will let me drive it :D
 
#4 ·
E9x is great for people who are getting into BMWs for the first time and don't know any better. However, for people who have previously driven BMWs it's a change towards the mainstream volume sellers such as the Camrys and Accords. Wait till you try out the F3x, the current 3 series, it's even more squarely targeted at the mainstream. If you have to get an E9x, the M3 and 335is are your target cars.
 
#6 ·
-Im sorry, but what happened to the "C" indicating that its a coupe? i have no idea why they got rid of that
-The automatic gearbox doesnt really work. maybe im just used to the stick, but typically with an auto i feel the car coast without any gas, but not in this....
-one of the big disappointments with the E9X was the interior..... AND I HATE, I MEAN HATE, THE WINDOWS NOT ON THE CENTER CONSOLE. WHY? JUST WHY? ...
-No oil dipstick: REALLY, come on BMW..
So, you couldn't tell it was coupe/convertible just by looking at it?

Actually, the auto works quite well. (There's been a big discussion of the downshifting on another forum if you want to search it out.) Remember, in a manual you would downshift to keep the revs up and the engine on the torque curve. This is even more important with a turbo so that they are spooled up and you have the power you need when you get back on the gas. The torque converters (of both the GM and ZF trannies) lock up asap and stay locked. Don't you want the engine connected to the drive shaft?

Come on, now. The thing you hate most is the placement of the window controls? Ever driven a 5-series? The window switches on the E46 are magnets for crumbs and coffee spills; don't you hate that?

Even on my E46, the oil level light never disagreed with my dipstick. It's easier to check your oil from the cockpit, and 90% of drivers never open the hood anyway. I've never heard of an engine failure from low oil in an E9x; the proof is in the pudding.

IMO, the E90 is a better car in almost every way; I even like the RFTs.:angel:
 
#7 · (Edited)
Exactly like I mentioned, these types of comments about not opening the hood and the convenience of checking the dipstick from inside the car are very "mainstream" driver usage centric.

Most of the old timer BMW owners don't only drive their cars and love them, they usually know exactly what's under the hood and know how to wrench on them. Ever been under the hood of an E30, E34 or E28?

BTW, the reason for the dipstick is to make sure you can check the oil level so that you can prevent the oil light from going on. You can actually top off the oil before it reaches the 1 quart low or below that forces the oil level light to go on. Preventive is much better than reactive, and if you haven't noticed, turbo engines (N54/55 & N20) are more prone to failure due to oil starvation compared to the E46 M54 engines.

Engine Issues due to a combination of oil starvation and aggressive driving + heavy load scenarios:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=464348

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=573622

However, the main root cause for failure on most E9x are the HPFP:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_N54

I'm not even going to comment on the RFTs, that's just wrong in all aspects.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I admit I haven't driven one but did look at and sit in a 335S at the dealer's. Impressive car but more like a 5 series in size than a 3.

As for the oil sensor versus dip stick...anyone who really cares about the longevity of their car, should be concerned by the reliance on a cheap electrical part being responsible for the safety and function of the engine. Sensors are known to fail: it's inevitable. On our cars, if a sensor fails, one can ck the oil and ensure proper levels are maintained until the sensor is replaced. On the E9x, if the sensor fails, you blow up your engine!

Story...my wife took a long road trip in our maxima, she is not a techie so I told her to just watch the warning lgihts and gave her instructions on what they meant and what to do if they came on. When she returned, no lights were on but the engine was making an odd noise. I checked things out and sure enough, the oil sending sensor had failed and she was running on 1.8 litres of engine oil! :eek:

Some things should remain manual and fluid levels is one of them (transmissions is another :D).IMHO.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Some things should remain manual and fluid levels is one of them (transmissions is another :D).IMHO.
I agree with that sentiment, however, there are already so many sensors we rely on in our e46's that it's not a deal-breaker for me. Of course I'd want a dipstick and I think it's ridiculous to remove something so essential. But when you learn the oil usage of the engine and pay attention, you won't find yourself suddenly 3 quarts low or something, and when the sensor failed in my e46 it let me know and I replaced it. I'm learning to accept the N52 in my wife's car, can you tell? Of course, as has been said, what you can't replace is being able to SEE the oil, I think that's the biggest problem we all have with it.

Speaking of the sensor failing, there's an access panel under my wife's car that accesses only the oil level sensor. ha!
 
#11 ·
I had an E90 and loved that car. Mine was a 2006 330i 6MT, the first year and the only year with the fun version of the N52. The power delivery was seamless, the tranmission was smooth, and the whole feel of the car was solid. Everything held up really well until I sold it with 80k miles: No rattles, no peeling trim, no broken anything.

Mine had a couple of mods:
- CDV removed
- SSK (the Turner Motorsport I think)
- 19 inch BMW wheels with good non flat rubber

It also came with the active steering which was lambasted in the press but I happened to really like it. I drove a colleague's 335i with standard steering once and turn in was so much slower that I almost hit the car parked in the spot next to the one I was pulling into. Oopsie :eeps:

That car was great for almost weekly highway drives from the Bay Area through the Sierras and on top of that it returned unbelievable gas mileage given the size of the car and the performance. I was consistently getting 10% to 15% better mileage than with our MINI Cooper S - Same route, same driver, similar conditions.

The center stack is admitedly not as driver oriented as the E46, but the integration of multiple functions (phone book, satelite, trip computer, advanced radio settings) on the radio interface was very well done and easy to use. The quick 3 blink on the trun signal stalk is also a great feature not available on the E46 as is hill hold which I came to rely on maybe a little too much in SF. I was not fond of the placement of the cup holder, but it did not break and I would never have thought that possible when I first bought the car.

Oh, and not evey E90 driver is clueless about DIY. I did the mods listed above and changed my own oil, brakes at all four corners, air filter, and particulate filter. I stopped doing coolant and brake / trans / diff fluids because recycling these fluids is becoming more of a problem around here, so I have my trusty independent do that work.

Sorry about the rant... I like my E46, but my experience with my E90 was nothing short of phenomenal and I would put it at or near the top of the great cars I've had. Out of the ten BMW's I have bought and sold, the E90 and my 88 325i convertible are the two I wish I had kept. My stomach was in knots when the new owner drove away with it - the kind of feeling like you're taking your dog to the vet and you know he's not coming back.

I hope your Dad has a good experience with his 335i. It should be a fun car. It's heavier and more "grown up" than the E46, but a great car nonetheless. I think that if you spend more time behind the wheel you will appreciate it more.



 
#14 ·
i work on e46s and e90s on a daily basis and im gonna say that i prefer the e90. it has a smoother ride. interior is much better than the e46. engine is much more efficient considering the new N series engines come with direct injection and valvetronic. and finally, at a DIY point of view, the e90 is much more easier to work on when it comes to major repairs.
 
#15 ·
I wonder if our grandfathers had the same sort of debate when their cars went from having dipsticks in the fuel tank to a fuel gauge :angel:
 
#28 · (Edited)
The dip stick got the job done very quickly and precisely because I see the level. Please tell me how the electronic monitoring indicator is better. It takes longer and I cannot verify it is accurate. I have to "believe" that it is correct.
 
#17 ·
When comparing the E46 to the E90, you have to be careful to compare comparably equipped cars. We have both an E90 (07 328i) and and E46 (04 325i) in our family. Both have the sport package, and we ditched the wretched runflats on the E90 a long time ago, so both cars now have exactly the same model, and almost the exact same size, Michelin all-season high performance tires. There really is no comparison between the two cars - the E46 is a great car, but the E90 is literally superior in every way. But when I've driven more pedestrian, non-sport package equipped E90s as loaners, I was underwhelmed, to the point where I'd say the E46 is still competitive.
 
#20 ·
They could drop that "i" also already.

It came originally for marking injection engines back in old times when many still had carburetors, but all modern cars come with injection so there's no such need to mark it separately anymore.
 
#23 ·
I took on an E90 335i sedan with all the sport nonsense through a very curvy road near the dealership. He was in front and I wasn't able to pass due to traffic and safety, but I could have. My suspension is crisp and new, so was his. He had more power, it was evident, but I carried more speed through the corners and braked later.

The fact is, no matter what anyone says we all have our opinions. I find ALL E90's wretched from a build quality and materials perspective. If you talk to guys who work on them, they hate them even more. I've seen and heard of a lot of issues with them from my buddy who owns a BMW shop, HE LOATHES them.

And I'll even say this, the E92 M3 is amazing enough I forget about the crappy interior layout, but the E90's all suck in that department. When the ZHP retires or gets relegated to weekend track car, I'm buying a Shelby Mustang, not a BMW.
 
#24 ·
I took on an E90 335i sedan with all the sport nonsense through a very curvy road near the dealership. He was in front and I wasn't able to pass due to traffic and safety, but I could have. My suspension is crisp and new, so was his. He had more power, it was evident, but I carried more speed through the corners and braked later.

The fact is, no matter what anyone says we all have our opinions. I find ALL E90's wretched from a build quality and materials perspective. If you talk to guys who work on them, they hate them even more. I've seen and heard of a lot of issues with them from my buddy who owns a BMW shop, HE LOATHES them.

And I'll even say this, the E92 M3 is amazing enough I forget about the crappy interior layout, but the E90's all suck in that department. When the ZHP retires or gets relegated to weekend track car, I'm buying a Shelby Mustang, not a BMW.
I sense a GoPro in your future.
 
#26 · (Edited)
OK, now i know that this same topic has been posted more times that people can count, but no matter. Recently, my father added a new car to the family; a 2007 335i convertible. Originally he was going to look at a CLK550, but after a ton of pestering from me about what a clot he would look, he test drove the 335i and wanted to keep a BMW in his life, so he did, bought it used for 29xxx with a little bit of the warranty left on it. naturally, since i convinced him to but it, he let me take it for a spin. here are some of the things i noticed that are different from my beloved 330ci.

-Im sorry, but what happened to the "C" indicating that its a coupe? i have no idea why they got rid of that
-The twin turbos in this engine throw you back like no other 3 series (other than the M3) ever has, its amazing, i had the AC on, and the automatic gearbox in "automatic" mode all i know is i got up to about 50MPH pretty damn quick.
-The automatic gearbox doesnt really work. maybe im just used to the stick, but typically with an auto i feel the car coast without any gas, but not in this. its almost like the car wants to make you think you have a stick. OK, the paddles are fun to putz around with for like 5 minutes, and then i want my clutch back.
-one of the big disappointments with the E9X was the interior.. i hated it. the gauge cluster is too crammed for the size of the dash, i miss the 4 separate gauges, in this one there is only two big ones , with the other two smaller ones inside. i dont like the feel of the leather, it almost feels cheap. i hate the iDrive, or whatever they call it these days, its just inconvenient. i hate how if you have one of those paper cups from like McDonalds they sweat and get all over the center console because of that afterthought that is a cupholder. i could go on. AND I HATE, I MEAN HATE, THE WINDOWS NOT ON THE CENTER CONSOLE. WHY? JUST WHY? And that really makes me upset, its almost like our generation cars were made better, better quality.
-Handling: One of the first things i noticed was the very tight steering, i dont know whether i like that or not. when im on a road, yes, of course, turn the power steering off completely, but when im trying to park, it just becomes a nuisance. i know that because its a convertible it doesnt handle as well as a coupe, but it handles about the same as my car.
-No oil dipstick: REALLY, come on BMW..

all in all, i dont know about this car. its unbelievably fast for a normal 3, no doubt. but it doesnt really "feel" like a BMW, it just feels like a nice car, it doesnt really have that BMW styling that i love so much, that BMW interior design that sells the car practically.
would i buy the car, yes. would i miss my E46? no question. i know my father does, he tells me every day.

for those who have driven both, i assume most of you have, post your thoughts, im interested to hear them
I hear you. I hate those new electronics that I have to memorize in order to figure out how to operate them. Having two cars with diifferent procedures can be a nightmare. I hated the i-Drive the first time it came out in the 7ers, and I hate the way I have to use the key fob to get the car started in the new 3ers. My 2007 911 Turbo with the "Porsche Communication Management" is the same way. I still haven't got the archaic navigation system figured out. And, you know what? I use the monitor to hold a basic Garmin Nuvi. I kid you not. And, I do hate the engine without a dip stick. Why do I have to go through an electronic procedure to measure the level of oil with it is warmed, while a dip stick can measure it when the level when it is either cold and hot. Why do I need to measure the level when it is warmed? Oil in the take takes a certain level regardless whether it is hot or cold. If the level is different, then give me two tic marks instead of one. The oil level doesn't have to be that precise anyway. Same thing with my 911 Turbo. Scroll through the electronics until I get to the oil level, then the monitor gives me some fricking bar levels, down by one quart or liter. I don't need the graphics. Even if the oil is cold, it stabilize at a certain level. Damn it, give me back the dip stick. If you want to make things more complicated, identify with tic marks marks for cold and hot levels. Quite frankly, I do not want to get rid of my 2001 330i. They have to steal it from me. Even then, I would get a used one over any E90 or the F30. When the E80 M3 comes out, BMW better have a stripped down version, without the iDrive, without NAV, and without those frucking bells and whisstles, or no BMW for me. In regards to the 911 Turbo. I could start it one time. It took me a while to figure that I had to completely turned the key to the far left to reset. And those damn windows that come down a 1/2 inch or so when the door is open, goes up with the door is shut. Why can there there an air vent to relieve the air pressure instead of using the windows to create an opening. I suspect the motor will wear out sooner or later, and I would have to spend a grand getting them fixed, while a relieve vent could have do the job simpler. I think the 911 GT3 is a purer driving machine than the Turbo even though it will be more difficult to drive that car well.

The 4 values per cylinder M54 is the best 6 cylinder BMW engine. It's in my 330i. :)
 
#30 ·
You're kidding yourself if you think the N52 is better than the M54. More "power" isn't always the best judge of a "good" engine.

A quick google search reveals a LOT of issues with it (not to mention the firsthand stuff I see and hear from my buddy who owns a shop). The M54 is PROVEN to live 300k miles and up, we don't have that data yet on the N52.
 
#31 ·
You're kidding yourself if you think the N52 is better than the M54. More "power" isn't always the best judge of a "good" engine.

A quick google search reveals a LOT of issues with it (not to mention the firsthand stuff I see and hear from my buddy who owns a shop). The M54 is PROVEN to live 300k miles and up, we don't have that data yet on the N52.
Wow, touchy. Your logic is faulty and your assertions are contradictory btw: you make a judgement, but then say we don't have the data and can't judge yet.:dunno:

I'd say, from having monitored both forums here, other forums other places, and from having had an M54, that there is no clear winner as far as reliability. Too bad BMW won't tell us.:thumbdwn:
 
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