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Automatic Transmission Fluid - Lifelong or NOT?

154K views 66 replies 37 participants last post by  gunyvw 
#1 ·
So my bmw x5 has 87,000 miles on it. . running well. no problems. went it to get oil changed today and discussed with my nice german mechanic Hans topic of automatic transmission fluid.
He thinks better NOT to change it ever as it is "lifetime fluid" but then he said "nothing is a lifetime."
I called BMW and their service people said "you shouldn't change it until earliest 100,000 and even then there is the risk that you can have problems with transmission after your change it .."we warned you"
Looking online most blogs say you should change it every 30,000 and the whole "lifetime transmission fluid" is a conspiracy by BMW ("whose cars are high maintenance but they now don't want people to think their cars are such so they are using lifetime fluids") to sell more cars ...and also conspiracy not to change fluid so that mechanic ends up doing transmission work later on in life..

THings online talk about flushing the system which makes sense but even then you may move "sludge" around from a place that it was not causing problems to a place that now is causing problems ...

What do you think? Surprisingly Hans and BMW dealership said not to do it .....................

Your thoughts are always appreciated. The car is paid off so I'd like to keep it as long as possible...
 
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#41 ·
I sold my 2001 X5 with 202,000 miles on it. I had zero issues with the transmission and never had the fluid replaced...
 
#42 ·
My grandfather smoked a pack a day for 60 years and died at 75 when he was hit by a bus. Smoking clearly has no ill health effects.
 
#44 ·
BMW service intervals

I had a similar issue. I bought a 2001 750 IL it had about 110K miles. I had it in for a pre purchase inspection. I was told the car had a good history and was in good shape. I have a habit of changing all the fluids in a car when first purchased just for the piece of mind of knowing everything has been serviced. I asked the BMW inspection shop about servicing the transmission and was told the same thing, "it's a sealed unit and the transmission does not need servicing". "Lifetime fluid". I said " are you sure" as I hadn't heard that one before.

Over the next year I had the car in and out a few times for some front end work that was needed and was identified in the pre purchase inspection. I continued to ask about the transmission servicing, I just didn't feel comfortable not servicing the transmission especially with the temps involved with Las Vegas summer driving.

Sure enough the transmission failed at 120K miles. it was $5,500 to replace with a rebuilt ZF tranny. I had asked a AAMCO guy the price and he said $3,500. I asked him about the fluid servicing interval and he said "that reply from BMW service is a scam. There is no transmission made that never needs servicing. Every transmission should be serviced at max 60-80K miles if you want it to last, especially in the super hot Las Vegas driving conditions. replace the filter and clean the pan and (as mentioned in a earlier post about) 30-50% of the fluid".

Point blank I was told by a few people afterward "every transmission needs servicing at some point or it is going to fail prematurely".

I feel duped and mislead! It this what BMW tells the to tell the customers???
 
#45 · (Edited)
I feel duped and mislead! It this what BMW tells the to tell the customers???
Well, you were duped and misled.

But recognize that YOU are NOT "BMWs Customer".

Only the original buyer is their customer. Subsequent owners in the used car market arent their customers...you may think you are, but they dont think you are.

Dont use BMW dealers for service- they arent really the best place to get accurate advice once you are out of warranty.

Finally, there are still plenty of folks that believe no BMW transmission every failed due to fluid failure.... just like there are tobacco companies that dont think their cigarettes caused any one persons lung cancer.

Edit: and just like lung cancer, it will be impossible to say that had you changed your fluid at 50k miles, you would have avoided that failure... but like people who dont smoke I **believe** that as a group, owners that change ATF will get longer service life. A belief
 
#47 ·
My transmission just went **** up due to a failed torque converter. Is now in the garage at the cost of ÂŁ2600. I have been told by BMW and landrover techs that my GM transmission would have lasted at least 200k if I had changed the fluid on my auto box every 30-50k now at 107k I'm paying for it. My advice is ensure you keep this area healthy or have a slush fund when it does happen.
 
#48 ·
Just for the record... I see some people using the term "flush". To me, "flushing" is too generic a term for servicing an auto transmission. I'm not a fan of "flushing" using some Quicki-lube machine that replaces fluid while the engine is running, in order to remove fluid from the trans cooler and the torque converter. These things (IMO) stir up latent crud in the bottom of the pan and that leads to problems.

Regular fluid changes, along with filter replacement and a new bottom gasket are a good idea. NEVER use any additional sealant on the bottom pan flange/gasket; I can almost guarantee you will have a leak if you use some sort of sealer. Perhaps most importantly, when the pan is removed to replace the filter, follow these precautions:

- clean the OUTSIDE of the pan thoroughly before you even pickup a socket to remove it. You want to minimize the possibility of introducing dirt.
- always loosen the FILL plug, BEFORE removing the drain plug. You don't want to drain it, only to find you can't get the FILL plug removed.
- remove the pan and clean the inside. It will contain a dense residue/fine sludge, especially around the magnets. You will have to wipe this down to get it really clean. Clean the magnets.
- then clean it again; sterile is your goal. I use a spray can of thinner. Blow it dry with compressed air (or a blow dryer) and inspect if for any lint. Flip the pan upside down and put it somewhere clean until you need it.
- remove the old filter; old fluid will drip from the valve body. Resist the urge to wipe it off. Let it drip. Don't use anything (shop rag, paper towel, etc) to wipe the valve body. You WILL introduce lint. Resist the urge to wipe it down.
- inspect the old filter, be absolutely certain the OLD filter sealing ring isn't stuck inside the valve body. Often times it breaks off and stays put when the filter is pulled down. Make certain it gets removed.
- inspect the new filter and keep it in the bag until you need it. Push it into position, and ensure it's seated properly. Fit the gasket and install the pan. Do NOT overtighten the bolts.

If you're lucky, you might get 50-60% of the fluid out when you service it this way. The remainder is stuck in the cooler, the cooler lines, and the torque converter. Don't worry about it, you'll replace some of it next time.
 
#49 ·
I have 204,000 miles on my 2001 X5 and have changed the fluid and filter 3 times. I use the recommended fluid that you can get at O'Reilly's for about $16 per liter. I don't do a full flush because they say a full flush can send the tranny into shock. When draining and dopping the pan and refilling it usually takes around 5-6 liters (depending on how much drained out).

Changed and drained fluid and filter about 2 months ago. Whenever you do a change the system runs a little different for a week or so while the system relearns the shifting patterns (it seems to sense the change and relearns how you drive).

My X5 runs great and I plan to continue changing the fluid and filter every 40k or so. Just check out one of the links on how to do it. Not hard to do but it is easier with access to lift.

Good luck.
 
#50 ·
I have 204,000 miles on my 2001 X5 and have changed the fluid and filter 3 times. I use the recommended fluid that you can get at O'Reilly's for about $16 per liter. I don't do a full flush because they say a full flush can send the tranny into shock. When draining and dopping the pan and refilling it usually takes around 5-6 liters (depending on how much drained out).

Changed and drained fluid and filter about 2 months ago. Whenever you do a change the system runs a little different for a week or so while the system relearns the shifting patterns (it seems to sense the change and relearns how you drive).

My X5 runs great and I plan to continue changing the fluid and filter every 40k or so. Just check out one of the links on how to do it. Not hard to do but it is easier with access to lift.

Good luck.
Is the filter something you can easily get at any car parts store? I just picked up an '11 35D with 61k on the clock and I want to get the tranny fluid and diff fluid replaced asap. While I'm still covered under the previous owner's maintenance plan, it sounds like BMW would not replace these fluids for me as a part of that.
 
#51 ·
Scott ZHP - you're on the money mate!
All the research I've read confirms what you've said.
I'm about to do a 'service' on my six speed ZF in a 2006 X5. I've recently purchased the car and the former owner had a 'service' done at a licensed BMW agent. I asked for a copy of the receipt and this revealed a very modest charge for this so called 'transmission service'. I called them and asked what was included in this service for $300 and they confirmed all they did was drain what fluid they could, then replace with Lifeguard 6. This is not what I would call a service...
I'm about to do a proper service myself. I've ordered the kit (filter and gasket) and researched ATF to suit the ZF transmission. There are many thoughts on which fluid to use. Some threads I've read indicate that the genuine Lifeguard fluid is a combination of mineral and synthetic oils. I'm opting to fill my transmission with a fully synthetic oil that has recently been introduced to the market here in Australia as suitable for the ZF six speed transmission. It's about 1/4 the price of Lifeguard and the manufacturer says it's ideally suited, although the recommend a 'dry fill', which is impossible unless you pull everything apart and drain the torque converter too. What I'll be doing is replacing the filter, clean up pan and magnet, then refill, warm-up, top-up and in a week or so, drain and top up again (will do this a few times to ensure I've got mostly new fluid in there).
My car has done 120,000 kms so around 70,000 miles. According to the ZF website, they recommend a full service (filter, gasket etc.) by no later than 120,000 kms. This would confirm that the transmission is NOT lifetime "fill and forget". Like anything mechanical that has parts that wear, you need to flush those bits out, replace the relevant filter (if there's one fitted) and refill the component with fresh lubricant. This way you'll extend the life of the component and avoid a hefty repair or replacement bill, which in the case of a six speed ZF transmission over here is around AU$7,500.00...
 
#52 ·
Scott ZHP - you're on the money mate!
All the research I've read confirms what you've said.
I'm about to do a 'service' on my six speed ZF in a 2006 X5.
Thanks; can't help much with the fluid, as my experience is with the GM box fitted to the earlier models. Sounds like you've done your research though.

If I were doing this again, I'd probably use Amsoil's synthetic ATF. Dunno if that's ZF approved, or even available down under.

Good luck with it.
 
#55 ·
Sorry for resurrecting this...

I know this is old, but just in case anyone has any doubts on the change intervals. Here is the link to the actual doc from ZF (transmission manufacturer). First page,bottom. 80-120k. KILOMETERS. Depending on driving style. So, 50-75k miles.

http://www.zf.com/media/media/document/brands_3/service_information/sitematrix~1/transmission/cars_4/englisch_3/modelluebergreifend_1/ZP_SI_Oelwechselkit_EN.pdf
 
#56 ·
I drained, changed filter, and filled my ZF transmission in my 04 Jaguar XJR at about 160,000 miles using Castrol Transmax Import Multi-vehicle fluid. Noticeable improvement on shift smoothness and quality. I'm now at 190K with no adverse effects nor decreased shifting quality.
There's less MOJO to it than we're led to believe.
Lifetime sealed transmission is BS. Service your transmission when you thinks it's time, but no longer than every 100K miles. Special ZF approved super-magical fluid is overkill, also. Do your research, then do the deed.
Just my $.02.
Ryan
Newbie
 
#58 ·
transmission fluid

hi guys I changed my fluid like a year ago after the car parked for a while. the car drove for a while and will not even move at all. I had the fluid changed and everything was fine till yesterday. I drove the car fine and got home. this morning the gear wont change to reverse. just forward just a year after I changed the fluid. what else should I do. I plan on changing the fluid again to see if it will work well . will keep you posted .
 
#60 ·
hi guys I changed my fluid like a year ago after the car parked for a while. the car drove for a while and will not even move at all. I had the fluid changed and everything was fine till yesterday. I drove the car fine and got home. this morning the gear wont change to reverse. just forward just a year after I changed the fluid. what else should I do. I plan on changing the fluid again to see if it will work well . will keep you posted .
it is probably worth to flush fluid one more time but transmission is a very complicated box and fresh fluid not always cures all problems so you may need to start looking for different options like new tranny or shop who rebuild them in case issue is still there
 
#59 ·
Chasz17, I think you obviously meant 100,000km as Tk123 was mentioning.
I'm with the chemist (BMW1999M3FL)...do a gradual change %0 % or as much as you drain out, then later another %0% or what you drain out, probably go again, if you get the correct fluid and have enough
As you are progressing view the oil.. Or if you have the facilities have the oil analysed... Forget the filter unless you want to drop the pan.
RegardZ
PS this is an old posting!
 
#61 ·
I ran my first X5 (a 2001) to 300,000 miles without a transmission fluid flush. My current 2003 X5 has 196,000 miles on it without a tranny fluid flush and my 2010 X5 has 115,000 miles on it - again without a transmission fluid flush. I haven't had any problems at all. YMMV
 
#62 ·
I have an '07 X5 4.8i with 110,000KM on it. Haven't done any Tranny fluid changes sine I bought it with 88,000KM on it and the previous owner hasn't done it either.

I do rev up the engine once in a while to red, and manually change gears for overtaking, or expecting to zig-zag in traffic. Tranny is still working fine *knock on wood*. I've been considering to change the fluid, but I figured the car would let me know when there's an issue. I do the oil + filter every 5-7K (km). Looking to eventually change the break, steering, tranny and differential fluids. You know, give it new liquids.

My BMW dealership told me that Oil Changes don't happen until the car tells you to (on-board info board). However, after 5k the oil smells burnt and it's black and thick. ... I know I use the power of V8...but c'mon!

Is there a way, visual or smell, or any other bodily sensory way to check to see if the ATF fluid needs changing (ie: engine oil is darker, smells, thicker)? Maybe we can do a simple visual check...
 
#63 ·
[ ... ] Is there a way, visual or smell, or any other bodily sensory way to check to see if the ATF fluid needs changing (ie: engine oil is darker, smells, thicker)? Maybe we can do a simple visual check...
ATF is typically artificially colored to distinguish it from similar appearing motor oil. Black ATF is too late. Smelly ATF is too late.

ATF depends on an integrated additive package for its properties beyond simple hydraulic fluid. (Water is a hydraulic fluid.). ATF needs to be replaced before the additives are used up.
 
#65 ·
How recent ago? Could there be a time period until things could go wrong due to new fluid? I was told the Germans add Valvoline which makes this fluid not need to be changed... Haven't dug into this claim yet.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
#67 · (Edited)
TO THE TITLE ***8230;..............no
You MUST MUST MUST understand WHICH TRANSMISSION YOU HAVE FIRST
I see post on here continually that state***8230;.............. changed the fluid now wont shift no problems beforehand etc etc***8230;..............

Most routine fluid change failures come from INCORRECT FLUID REPLACEMENT OR LEAKAGE / SEEPAGE AFTER THE FACT.
lets Assume 250,000 miles to be a cars power train lifespan
This would give a power train putting 12500 to 20000 miles per year 12 to 20 years. The vehicle itself may dodge the crusher much, much longer.
Also understand that most often times, unforeseen consequences, cause vehicles power train components to live well short of its lifespan.
Using this scenario***8230;.............. if you have a 2001 going 12500 a year you have nearly 190k on the clock. You have about 5 years of 'original first normal life' left. 75% used
If you are above 50% I would say change it most definitely

Most routine fluid change failures come from INCORRECT FLUID REPLACEMENT OR LEAKAGE / SEEPAGE AFTER THE FACT.
You MUST MUST MUST understand WHICH TRANSMISSION YOU HAVE FIRST

My ZF transmission fluid looked black like used motor oil at first glance***8230;.............. I remember saying this fluid is well past its time.
Once I got the Pentosin transmission fluid I found it was just as 'black' as the fluid coming out of the tranny. And actually what I had in it appeared to be in really good shape.

UNDERSTAND THE E53 X5 HAS MORE THAN 1 TYPE OF TRANSMISSION IN FACT IT HAS QUITE OF NUMBER OF OPTIONS.

I HAVE INCLUDED SOME TAGS THAT THE E53 X5 TRANNY WOULD HAVE FEEL FREE TO ADD ANY YOU FIND.
These include GM and ZF transmissions 5 and 6 speeds.
1. from a 2001 4.4 5 SPEED AUTO... THIS IS WHAT I HAVE SERVICED AND HAD IN MY OWN HANDS. i do know it will take Pentosin ATF it may take others i cannot verify that.
2. from a 2003 3.0 5 SPEED AUTO
3. from a 2007 Thru 2010 4.8 6 SPEED AUTO... *NOT AN E53... but based upon the tag alone it may be able to be used in a previous year.
4. from a 2005 4.4 AUTO
5. AN EXAMPLE OF A HARD STAMP... find any information you can 'before' you put any fluid in your tranny.

*looking at those tags you an also tell that the automatic transmission in the 05 4.4 should work just fine in a 2009 4.8is.

OH AND DID I MENTION***8230;..............
Most routine fluid change failures come from INCORRECT FLUID REPLACEMENT OR LEAKAGE / SEEPAGE AFTER THE FACT.
You MUST MUST MUST understand WHICH TRANSMISSION YOU HAVE FIRST
 

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