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Renntech vs. JB4 vs. ESS Tunes

9K views 64 replies 10 participants last post by  bear-avhistory 
#1 ·
Hello Everyone. I recently purchased a 2008 335i Convertible Sport 6A. I am interested in a tune for the car and am looking for suggestions. Does anyone know of the Renntech providing superior performance over the JB4 or ESS tunes. JB4 seems to be the best bang for the buck that I see. Any thoughts on performance mods would be greatly appreciated as well. I am thinking of this progression for performance mods. Tune, intake, meth, downpipes, exhaust, then FMIC upgrade. Thanks
 
#2 · (Edited)
BuraQ could probably fill you in on Renntech, I don't know anyone who uses ESS... Bottom line JB4 can do everything the others can and has a massive following.

There is enough info around you could find everything else on that list.

Suspension should probably come quickly especially how easy it would be to get to 400+WHP
 
#7 ·
M3 for control arms - light, stiff; delrin. And designed by BMW for your model.

Many choices for coilovers. I bought Ground Control as it comes with the M3 rear camber arms, and uses Yellows [fave] matched to Eibach Sport linear springs. You'll be hard pressed to find a limit on public roads. I like Megan rear toe arms as everyone else seems to use Heim joints, prone to wear. Megan uses the same elastomer setup M3 does. Alas, M3 arms don't fit! I don't have the full M3 rear setup as that would involve thousands more for drivetrain parts + Al rear subframe.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Correct, JB4 is the best bang for the buck and also the most limp mode prone tune in your list

I have yet to see one JB4 tune on my level of performance that is able to do back to back runs and not throw a trouble code. It is inevitable it will happen in your JB4 experience.

If you are willing to deal with this and the time with BMS support, then go right ahead.

So how does RENNtech match up to JB4, they are very competitive other than the RENNtech tune is much more dependable and less problematic when it comes to trouble codes being thrown

With RENNtech you will have to send them your DME, that means car being down for couple of days

If you want the best of both worlds and BEST convenience then I would say Cobb, but you would need a ProTune to get equal or better performance from what you would get with RENNtech.

I have roll raced, and drag raced with Cobb Stage 2+ Race cars and JB4 MAP 7 cars both using E85 blends and they have all been more heavily modded
 
#11 ·
I have roll raced, and drag raced with Cobb Stage 2+ Race cars and JB4 MAP 7 cars both using E85 blends and they have all been more heavily modded
Curious as to what the results of those races were?
 
#12 · (Edited)
This was posted by mdyates with 3 time slips to confirm the runs.

"After my 12.09 at 116 mph last week I was determined to break into 11's WITHOUT doing exhaust work, FMIC, LSD or upgrading tires etc.

So, last night I ran 3 consecutive 11.9's at 117 and 118 mph! No weight reduction, even left 2 child seats in again, lol Special thanks to Terry @ BMS!"

The car a 335IS 7DCT is pure stock, except for the tune, down to the OEM run flats. The 117/118mph terminal speed suggests it has good power. Car can be duplicated for about $1100/1200.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I don't track my daily driver. Not interested in street racing with or without pinks on the line. Too many innocents lives' on the line.
So the question becomes, what gives me a solid punchy street performance? No bragging rights, just "holy crap this thing hauls like a freight train! Woo Hoo!".
 
#21 ·
I don't understand. Are you saying that I could get all that stuff you got for free?

What is the cost of a system to someone coming into this from the cold? I thought we were talking about "no you should get (buy) this system instead of that system"?
 
#23 · (Edited)
I don't understand. Are you saying that I could get all that stuff you got for free?

What is the cost of a system to someone coming into this from the cold? I thought we were talking about "no you should get (buy) this system instead of that system"?
No, I have a relationship with those manufactures. Also, its a matter of choice and how extreme you want to go with the selection of mods. In my case I am extremely sensitive when it comes to mods on my car. Can it be done for less, of course, but I had warranty and dealer tolerance to consider which affected my choice of mods.

What bear-avhistory posted of the MSRP on the tune, intake, downpipes, FMIC is correct for most buyers. You can get similar mods for less, however quality, durability, performance, longevity and warranty does not come cheap and if it does it is more likely you will be compromising something.

If you lease then disregard all this and go the cheaper route. If your not keeping you car for long term then go the cheaper route.

My car is a build car that I am planning on keeping for years to come. This is my DD currently atm, 19-20 mpg on current tune. As on the track it performs on the street, no need to change maps :)

If there is another tune I would go with it would be the Cobb AP with a Protune
 
#30 · (Edited)
BuraQ, The OP clearly stated he wanted to run a staged upgrade buying a piece at a time this suggests he has zero equipment on his case & has to buy everything he wants to get. For you to list free, carryover & custom built equipment is IMHO disingenuous & is in no way a valid response to his question.

I stated they were MSRP & I listed both cars at MSRP since discounts & freeB's float all over the place. Some guys get some stuff for free or steep discount for chatting the product up on the net or testing products. You also listed FREE with carry over items from your Dinan super fan days, were they also free the first time around & can you guaranty free to the OP?

So unless you can guaranty that a new guy with pure stock equipment & RENNtech can get to 11.7 or even 11.9 with the cost you listed I would say my BS meter just got pegged full over into the red zone. You need to use MSRP to keep thing equal on the first cut, from there you can start to workout discounts & freeB's.

You keep knocking other cars going the cheaper route and higher boost levels @ 17/18PSI. Since you also post at BimmerBoost (a BMW N54 tech forum) you know the cars running big horsepower numbers are generating 28-30psi or 11***8211;12PSI more than the BMS/COBB car I listed. While running the Dinan tune you did the same cheaper/breakage number on the other equipment but when you wanted to go quicker/faster the Dinan tune was history.

RENNtech may be a conservative tune in your estimation but you did break both your drive shaft & differential on a launch. The guys at Bimmerboost including me said well done with your 11 second runs but were not happy with your conservative tune statements.

http://www.bimmerboost.com/forumdisplay.php?39-N54

These guys are well down in the 11's & will most likely break into the 10's this season. More that one said with your existing extra hardware & one of the other tunes you would be a lot quicker/faster then you are now. IIRC you got hammered pretty hard over there with some of your statements promoting specific hardware.

So the bottom line in real life for a new guy stepping up to the plate stands IMHO & he will be opening his wallet to these numbers if he chooses to go for it.

BTW it looks like, I could be wrong & missed one, but out of the 259 335 postings to Drag Times your posts are the only ones with a RENNtech tune.

BuraQ 11.78 116mph @ $8271

MDYATES 11.92 118mph @ $1405

Net net 0.14 -2mph
 
#33 ·
BuraQ, The OP clearly stated he wanted to run a staged upgrade buying a piece at a time this suggests he has zero equipment on his case & has to buy everything he wants to get. For you to list free, carryover & custom built equipment is IMHO disingenuous & is in no way a valid response to his question.
Bud, your the one that brought my mods up, I addressed the RENNtech tune and what it can achieve "efficiently" when he gets to that level progressively. IMO he should get FMIC before even thinks about a tune first.

The OP questioned which one had superior performance over the other. Superior performance is not only being competitive but that is more problematic free.

I stated they were MSRP & I listed both cars at MSRP since discounts & freeB's float all over the place. Some guys get some stuff for free or steep discount for chatting the product up on the net or testing products. You also listed FREE with carry over items from your Dinan super fan days, were they also free the first time around & can you guaranty free to the OP?

So unless you can guaranty that a new guy with pure stock equipment & RENNtech can get to 11.7 or even 11.9 with the cost you listed I would say my BS meter just got pegged full over into the red zone. You need to use MSRP to keep thing equal on the first cut, from there you can start to workout discounts & freeB's.
I already addressed this , don't know why your beating on a dead horse

No, I have a relationship with those manufactures. Also, its a matter of choice and how extreme you want to go with the selection of mods. In my case I am extremely sensitive when it comes to mods on my car. Can it be done for less, of course, but I had warranty and dealer tolerance to consider which affected my choice of mods.

What bear-avhistory posted of the MSRP on the tune, intake, downpipes, FMIC is correct for most buyers. You can get similar mods for less, however quality, durability, performance, longevity and warranty does not come cheap and if it does it is more likely you will be compromising something.

If you lease then disregard all this and go the cheaper route. If your not keeping you car for long term then go the cheaper route.

My car is a build car that I am planning on keeping for years to come. This is my DD currently atm, 19-20 mpg on current tune. As on the track it performs on the street, no need to change maps :)

If there is another tune I would go with it would be the Cobb AP with a Protune
Now lets move on.....

You keep knocking other cars going the cheaper route and higher boost levels @ 17/18PSI. Since you also post at BimmerBoost (a BMW N54 tech forum) you know the cars running big horsepower numbers are generating 28-30psi or 11-12PSI more than the BMS/COBB car I listed. While running the Dinan tune you did the same cheaper/breakage number on the other equipment but when you wanted to go quicker/faster the Dinan tune was history.
The mod bug got me, technically I was waiting for Cobb to release their AP, but I just had a better offer with RENNtech and decided to take it up. If I want more power then I will go with a Protune.

RENNtech may be a conservative tune in your estimation but you did break both your drive shaft & differential on a launch. The guys at Bimmerboost including me said well done with your 11 second runs but were not happy with your conservative tune statements.
People have broken same with less power, try researching more into that.

So the bottom line in real life for a new guy stepping up to the plate stands IMHO & he will be opening his wallet to these numbers if he chooses to go for it.
Like I said, I never brought up mods, I addressed the tune, your brought up mods when I didn't even address it. I leave the mod stuff to others unless specifically asked or unless someone is misrepresents a mod that I use.

BTW it looks like, I could be wrong & missed one, but out of the 259 335 postings to Drag Times your posts are the only ones with a RENNtech tune.
The only one of the BMW 3 series, yes

Conclusion: If the OP asked JB4 or Cobb, I would say go with Cobb.
 
#35 · (Edited)
This is getting silly now. You never mentioned your mods?

ET 11.78 @ 116 Mph,
RENNtech tuning,
aFe Stage 2 Elite intake (open cover),
cP-e Downpipes w/ High Flow Catts
Dinan FMIC, Dinan Axle Back Exhaust,
Full Weight, No meth, No DRs

Excuse me but they get mentioned every time you post. You can't say anything about how effective your tune is by itself because you do not run it by itself but as part of an overall $8K package. That is why I brought up mdyates car, which is pure stock except for his tune, into the debate

So without all your supporting mods how close to 11.78 are you? Do you believe without your supporting mods & just the RENNtech tune with stock tires your car would be quicker than mdyates tune only 11.92 on factory RFT.

BTW I see you avoided it again but to enlighten us cheapo guys, recognizing that you were an alpha/beta tester for them, how much all in did the RENNtech tune cost you & what Joe No Connections might expect to pay for a matching package?
 
#37 ·
This is getting silly now. You never mentioned your mods?

ET 11.78 @ 116 Mph,
RENNtech tuning,
aFe Stage 2 Elite intake (open cover),
cP-e Downpipes w/ High Flow Catts
Dinan FMIC, Dinan Axle Back Exhaust,
Full Weight, No meth, No DRs

Excuse me but they get mentioned every time you post. You can't say anything about how effective your tune is by itself because you do not run it by itself but as part of an overall $8K package. That is why I brought up mdyates car, which is pure stock except for his tune, into the debate
Do you really think people reading are that retarded to take my signature specs for my setup as addressing the OP's inquiries ? Now you sir are really being silly

So without all your supporting mods how close to 11.78 are you? Do you believe without your supporting mods & just the RENNtech tune with stock tires your car would be quicker than mdyates tune only 11.92 on factory RFT.
First of all I would never run my current tune without supported mods. And of course not, the JB4 335is is tuned much more aggressively but without supported mods it is running less efficient

Now if your going to insinuate "JUST IMAGINE" if he was FBO. Well that's exactly what it is insinuating and I am looking forward to when he does become FBO.

This is where proper mod chemistry, balance, and efficiency will have its say against a car with more boost and timing that is FBO.

BTW I see you avoided it again but to enlighten us cheapo guys, recognizing that you were an alpha/beta tester for them, how much all in did the RENNtech tune cost you & what Joe No Connections might expect to pay for a matching package?
What tuner doesn't release a Alpha Beta tune ? Doesn't JB4 release beta map for you guys to test ? Didn't the JB4 335is that ran 11.92 map was beta made by Terry for him ? I never avoided anything, and already answered the questions:

No, I have a relationship with those manufactures. Also, its a matter of choice and how extreme you want to go with the selection of mods. In my case I am extremely sensitive when it comes to mods on my car. Can it be done for less, of course, but I had warranty and dealer tolerance to consider which affected my choice of mods.

What bear-avhistory posted of the MSRP on the tune, intake, downpipes, FMIC is correct for most buyers. You can get similar mods for less, however quality, durability, performance, longevity and warranty does not come cheap and if it does it is more likely you will be compromising something.

If you lease then disregard all this and go the cheaper route. If your not keeping you car for long term then go the cheaper route.

My car is a build car that I am planning on keeping for years to come. This is my DD currently atm, 19-20 mpg on current tune. As on the track it performs on the street, no need to change maps :)

If there is another tune I would go with it would be the Cobb AP with a Protune
What in this you don't understand or doesn't answer the supposed avoided question ?

Why mention price, when price is available on the tuner's site. If the price is too steep then their are other "DME FLASH" options rather that going with a piggyback
 
#39 · (Edited)
BuraQ so after all is said & done you have no idea what the RENNtech tune will do pure stock, Correct? Additionally, we have no idea what you paid for the tune, Correct? With Terry's tunes alpha, beta, production they are available to those willing to test them for free. If they work well they are passed on to everybody else for free. Looking back at Terry's site you can easily follow the progression of the G5/ISO alpha/beta firmware which is up to 19hex now.

I saw a post at Terry's site asked about the beta software upgrade for 335IS running E85 & had a copy in about 1/2 hour. Anyone else who wanted it could have it for just the asking. The only requirement to getting alpha or beta software is you agree to send in logs & report any issues. No charge for any upgrades. Point is if I or anyone else with an IS or 1M wanted the same firmware as mdyates all I need to do is ask for it. By this time its features have been included in the std download at Terry's site.

Now to your recommendations. You are making one without any knowledge of how your version might translate to a stock car, because you have no experience with it in a stock environment. Its a PRO Tune custom built for the application & what equipment you had on your car. Am I correct that if you add something like downpipes the tune needs to be upgraded or will it self upgrade like Map5 on the JB4?

If the OP gets a RENNtech tune it will be dialed into what he has now not what he will have a number of steps down the road hence the question about cost. If its custom tuned to the present & he upgrades in 4 segments does he need to rebuy the ProTune 4 times over to suit his new hardware or will he get the 4 upgrades for free?

Since you prefer a flash to a piggy back does RENNtech come with a library of tunes like COBB? So the user can switch tunes without having to go back to have another custom one built
 
#42 ·
  • RENNtech tune $1500
Correct or OBO
  • Install software charge?
Included in price
  • Removal/replacement of ECU if not near a shop?
DIY or Google it for directions on how to remove the DME, its plug and play more simplified than installing reinstallling the JB4
  • Shipping of ECU to a shop & back?
Included in price on shipping back to customer
  • Does it need to be re-flashed as equipment is added ?
No, just reset DME readaptation which can be done by the dealer for free or a BT Tool
 
#43 ·
Reset DME by "dealer" - BMW dealer or RENNtech dealer?

If RENNtech does it need to be removed sent then re-installed?

IF BMW what about this on the dealers records regarding a tune?

Price for a BT tool - single vin locked $290?

Thing I was curious about was with COBB if you add equipment you re-flash with a more aggressive set of parameters suited to the additional hardware. With RENNtech you just wipe the ECU***8217;s adaptations clean with the BT tool & drive on?
 
#44 · (Edited)
Reset DME by "dealer" - BMW dealer or RENNtech dealer?

If RENNtech does it need to be removed sent then re-installed?

IF BMW what about this on the dealers records regarding a tune?

Price for a BT tool - single vin locked $290?

Thing I was curious about was with COBB if you add equipment you re-flash with a more aggressive set of parameters suited to the additional hardware. With RENNtech you just wipe the ECU's adaptations clean with the BT tool & drive on?
Just about any main stream BMW specific diagnostic tool can do it or the BMW dealer can do it at no charge. It does not require removal of the DME to reset adaptations

Nope, car will not be flagged or recorded by dealer nor will the dealer go checking for a tune based on this. FYI dealer can tell if you had a piggyback on the car if they wanted to go looking for things.

Yes BT Tool is $290 there are other BWM specific diagnotic tool available for cheaper but the BT tool is better as it covers all the car modules not just the DME

The OTS maps with Cobb just like JB4 are "pretuned" maps for specific mods so the DME does not have to do any adapt to a "specific" mod which is already "dictated" to the DME

So for a better understanding for our readers, think of the Matrix movie, if you want to "know" Kung Fu it is flashed to the brain rather than having to "learn" Kung Fu

The RENNtech tune just like Cobb targets "load" which is calculated by the DME's logic in rendering boost / timing / AFR's which is the original natural function of the DME. "Load" is calculated by MAF, IATs, Fuel etc that is handled by various hardware ie mods

When a major mod is added like a downpipe, the DME needs to re adapt ie re learn and recognize the changes. On a pretuned map for specific mods this is skipped as the standard values are already figured out for the DME rather than it having to "learn it" on its own.

So yes its a matter of install and then be on your way with the RENNtech tune, the DME does the rest.
 
#45 ·
If it functions like COBB what is the advantage in using RENNtech? I was thinking that RENNtech was like COBB when COBB is used in conjunction with a ProTune like Dzenno @PTF offers. With PTF you get a custom tune plus the hand held COBB device which enables you to switch Maps (tunes) when you want to. If you don't want a custom tune you can just use the Hand Held with COBB's library of tunes. Aren't most COBB units running from the library or shared files?
 
#46 ·
If it functions like COBB what is the advantage in using RENNtech?
That would depend on personal preference. The RENNtech tune is a optimized 93 octane OTS map. It doesn't stop at 93 octane though, you can up the fuel to take advantage of advance timing etc that will out perform conventional Cobb OTS Stage 2+ maps except the 135i that is $200+ lbs lighter than a E90 or E92

Its a simple flash tune you leave on the car always. Want more oomph just add higher octane instead of having to reflash to change maps for fuel

I was thinking that RENNtech was like COBB when COBB is used in conjunction with a ProTune like Dzenno @PTF offers. With PTF you get a custom tune plus the hand held COBB device which enables you to switch Maps (tunes) when you want to. If you don't want a custom tune you can just use the Hand Held with COBB's library of tunes. Aren't most COBB units running from the library or shared files?
I consider the PROtune to be more advanced in power than the RENNtech tune which depends on who the PROtuner is. If the PROtuner is PTF then all the way the victory goes to them.

Yes Cobb has a library of maps that are already on the AP download via software update. PROtune maps cannot me shared if there is a vin lock
 
#47 · (Edited)
Last question then I will leave you alone.:) If I understand correctly RENNtech provides a map which is set to a stock car with 93 octane but can learn if equipment or fuel quality is changed for the better @ $1500? COBB/PTF provides a hand held with a number of OTS tunes as well as a custom ProTune E map for $995. PTF also offers custom on the dyno COBB tuning for $400 extra.

The E map procedure is the same as I used to build custom maps for the 335is with Terry on the JB4. This could have been done with Map 5, the self learning map, but fixed maps skip the learning part.

Forgot to ask when are you moving to COBB/PTF?
 
#48 · (Edited)
Last question then I will leave you alone.:) If I understand correctly RENNtech provides a map which is set to a stock car with 93 octane but can learn if equipment or fuel quality is changed for the better @ $1500?
Yes sirrrr

COBB/PTF provides a hand held with a number of OTS tunes as well as a custom ProTune E map for $995. PTF also offers custom on the dyno COBB tuning for $400 extra.
Please note the OTS maps that come with Cobb AP by itself will not out perform the RENNtech tune (unless your car is 200lbs+ less), you will have to pay $400 extra for a PROtune to be able to top it. If PROtune is sought make sure your go with PTF

Also non of the official OTS maps that come with the JB4 can out peform the RENNtech tune unless it is custom tuned

Forgot to ask when are you moving to COBB/PTF?
Well I cant tell you that then Terry will know ;) . I got some more mods coming exclusively to run PTF.
 
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