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Consumer Reports BMW 5 Series (F10) falls short of the "Ultimate Driving Machine"

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5 series f10
18K views 70 replies 31 participants last post by  richschneid 
#1 ·

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#2 ·
Interesting. Doesn't seem to agree with other reviewers of the same car that really liked it. I take it this one didn't have SP on it, which would likely have changed the results. And the shuttering part over bumps? Well, welcome to the wonderful world of RFT's
 
#3 ·
Insideline has this about their F10 528i long term car after testing it on the track

Handling Comments: Skid pad: More difficult to access off-throttle rotation than 535i, but the effect is minimal in both cars. Not nimble or quick to respond, but entirely controllable. Slalom: Feels fairly soft in rapid transitions -- even in Sport Plus. Is well-mannered, however. Chassis isn't snappy like an Infiniti. BMW is showing a change of direction here.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2010/10/2011-bmw-528i-track-tested.html
 
#5 · (Edited)
The test car did not have integral active steering. This will markedly improve the "nimbleness and quickness" of the car in rapid transient repsonse. This is necessary to get if you are an enthusiast. The IAS is an indication of the direction BMW is going for the traditional enthusiast driver. So it is unfair to criticize the company for not doing what it has actually done. The point is that BMW is simultaineously making cars for both the traditional BMW enthusiast AND the traditional Lexus buyer. You just have to buy the car you want. It makes perfect sense not to try to sell a car to a Lexus buyer by making him pay for the neccessary engineering needed to satisfy the traditional BMW buyer.
 
#4 ·
I think the handling on my 550i xDrive is superior to that of my '93 740i, my '99 540i sport package, my '00 M5, and my '06 650i sport package. I have almost 200,000 miles on these cars and have driven all the M cars on the track at the BMW facility in South Carolina. I don't think these Consumer's Reports reviewers have any idea what they are talking about. I test drove the 550i RWD very fast and hard on twisty hilly back roads in the hills outside of Pittsburgh. It handled better than my 650i even equipped with only the OE grand touring tires. The xDrive version handles even better than the RWD car.

They also complained about the controls. The controls on the F10 are by far the best of any BMW I have ever owned. They just didn't have the time to actually learn how they work. Once you learn them they are nearly perfect and extremely driver friendly and easy to use.

The same limitations apply to the Car and Driver testers to a lesser extent. Besides, to really understand the type of car BMW makes for enthusiasts one has to test the RWD cars with integral active steering, dynamic handling package, and the sport package. The only thing that might be also needed is to put high performance tires on the car instead of grand touring tires. The xDrive versions like my car are not available with IAS but this is made up for by the instantaneous rear to front torque vectoring that virtually eliminates oversteer in hard driving. This I can tell you from personal experience. :thumbup:
 
#57 ·
I think the handling on my 550i xDrive is superior to that of my '93 740i, my '99 540i sport package, my '00 M5, and my '06 650i sport package. I have almost 200,000 miles on these cars and have driven all the M cars on the track at the BMW facility in South Carolina. I don't think these Consumer's Reports reviewers have any idea what they are talking about. I test drove the 550i RWD very fast and hard on twisty hilly back roads in the hills outside of Pittsburgh. It handled better than my 650i even equipped with only the OE grand touring tires. The xDrive version handles even better than the RWD car.

They also complained about the controls. The controls on the F10 are by far the best of any BMW I have ever owned. They just didn't have the time to actually learn how they work. Once you learn them they are nearly perfect and extremely driver friendly and easy to use.

The same limitations apply to the Car and Driver testers to a lesser extent. Besides, to really understand the type of car BMW makes for enthusiasts one has to test the RWD cars with integral active steering, dynamic handling package, and the sport package. The only thing that might be also needed is to put high performance tires on the car instead of grand touring tires. The xDrive versions like my car are not available with IAS but this is made up for by the instantaneous rear to front torque vectoring that virtually eliminates oversteer in hard driving. This I can tell you from personal experience. :thumbup:
Totally agree Rich, these so called "testers" should read tossers, just have no idea about the controls or real driving of the vehicles they test.
You need more than a run round the block to make an anyway near accurate assessment for what your driving.;) The latest IDrive is dead easy to use.
 
#6 ·
The BMW 5 Series has a luxurious and quiet interior and a very impressive drivetrain. Unfortunately, its handling falls short of BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan.

It seems like BMW has been targeting Mercedes and Lexus with this 5 series and not the "Ultimate Driving Machine".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36W93eHCqM4&feature=player_embedded
I've got an '06 550, and the wife drives a '07 Mercedes CLS 550. Huge difference in the cars. They're both exactly what you would expect. We're about to trade the Merc for a 535 and what sold the wife is the updated interior and improved ride (she hates my 550). I guess it's all about what you want. I won't be buying an F10 for myself, but can appreciate the changes made for the wider audience. I'll probably go with a 335 or M3 next time around just for the BMW experience.
 
#7 ·
Rich, you're truly an apologist for BMW. Every single expert reviewer and amateur enthusiast says the same thing - the car drives like a Lexus, abandoning its enthusiast heritage. I am two weeks away from my own 550ix, so I will see for myself. But you can't just rationalize every reviewer's criticisms, which are consistent and unanimous.
 
#14 ·
Look, that is not a logical argument. If you have a disagreement with my opinion that is fine. Just state your reasoning and I will either agree with you or tell you why I disagree with you. I have every right to disagree with any reviewer so long as I have reason to. None of these reviewers in C&D or Consumer's Reports or Winding Road have made any sense becaust they are not testing the proper car.

Did you get DHP, sport package, and the sport transmission? If so, then we have the same car and you and I can compare our opinions. If not, then we are talking about apples and oranges. These reviewers are making generalizations about BMW based upon one car that is not fully equipped for the enthusiast. The reviewers are severely limited in their opinions because in the case of C&D and Winding Road they are stuck with the one car given to them to review. In the case of Consumer's Reports they buy the car from a dealer. They do not buy a fully equipped enthusiast's car and then make generalizations which by their very nature cannot be accurate.

I am not making a "rationalization" I am making a logical analysis based upon the information at hand. Of course, the base car drives "like a Lexus", that's what it's supposed to do. But to say that BMW does not also make a car that drives like a BMW is completely and totally dishonest and misleading. These guys have to write something so rather than admit their limitations they make absurd generalizations which are based on extremely limited information at best, and downright dishonesty at worst. So, someone has to stand up and give some counterbalance to their nonsense. Sorry, if you don't agree with me. But no one here has driven these cars fully equipped, not the magazine reviewers or anyone on this website. Period. :thumbup:
 
#8 · (Edited)
Have driven several new F10s and one for a few hundred miles. COnsumer reports AND car and driver both find it disappointing for the enthusiast. But for the buick crowd, it is a great car. I guess it depends what one wants. Check out the steering thread for one look at this car. My family member who owns the f10 calls it the "ultimate lexus". That isn't a bad thing, it is just different than the historical sports sedan the car once was. I bet it will sell in throngs --- to the new target audience. If you are an enthusiast, I hope you have a short lease.
 
#9 ·
Having enjoyed a long test drive in a base model 535i....I would describe the overall driving experience as unexpectedly similiar to my company's 09 ES 350.... The model I drove felt less connected than earlier model 5 series I've driven. Nice car...but more "Lexus" like than I expected. I tend to agree with others on the board...the reviewer's difficulty using the various controls would be quickly overcome with familiarity.
 
#10 ·
Unfortunately it seems to me all the reviewers read the first review and just parroted the good and bad. Consumer reports has lost their way in the modern world, post Nixon era. I would say they should just stick to taking surveys, but I don't really trust those either. Numb on center steering? Mine goes straight, follows the slant of the road like it should, turns the car with the smallest input possible.
 
#12 ·
Well, I tend to agree with Rich, and I am not an apologist for BMW. I used to drive BMW's, including a 2000 M-5 and several 5 series before that. Then, I drifted away for a few years to Lexus and Acura, due primarily to reliability issues specific to my vehicles. I still own an X3, and I have on order a 550i with all of the performance upgrades. The 550i is replacing a Lexus GS460 and I have to tell you, that after very extensive driving tests (four in all), we found the 550i to be a far better sports machine than the Lexus while at least equaling it in terms of highway cruise comfort. We tried the Infiniti, Mercedes, Lexus and Jaguar cars before deciding. Each competitor car had fairly significant issues which I could go into but won't here. The bottom line is that I think the 550i properly optioned really is the best of all worlds in terms of sport handling and performance combined with technology, comfort, and all around flexibility. This is true until the next M-5 shows up. Perhaps the only criticism I would level would be that it used to be that BMW set up the cars so that they had that near magical balance without needing to order all of the available options packages. Now, it seems that to get the car you really want, you have to option it up to the hilt. That, in turn, costs a mint. You get there in the end, but at a cost much higher than the base price.
 
#16 ·
Thanks for the agreement. I think I agree with you that to get a properly set up F10 you must option it out for about an additional $10,000 to get the IAS, the DHP, the sport transmission, and maybe 2 grand for proper tires. So if you want a Lexus you pay less. If you want a BMW you have to pay more. Go get what you pay for. What's so irrational about that. That's all I have been saying here for about two months.

As one guy said, his wife wants the base car because she like the Lexus type car. So her car costs around $55,000 with the turbo 6 cylinder. His BMW with the 6 is around $65,000. If he wants the 8 cylinder is around $75,000 or 80. Why is everybody complaining about this? My car listed for $85,000 and I think it's an absolute steal at that price. Nothing Lexus, MB, or Audi makes even comes close at that price. I think the performance is just a tad below the Panamera 4S at around $110,000, the Maser QP at $130,000 and the Aston Martin.

A BMW cost more than a Lexus. Period. All these critics seem to want is to get a BMW for the price of a Lexus. That's what I consider to be truly absurd. :)
 
#13 ·
I've seen a couple of unflattering reviews of the new F10 so far. Not that those articles should be taken as gospel but I think it's ridiculous to discount those by saying that they "parrot" one another. Where is the dismissing of the critics when BMW comes out of top in virtually every other comparo article in R&T, C&D, and MT?

Let's call a spade a spade. Some here who claim to be driving enthusiasts don't know how to drive with a third pedal and couldn't change a flat tire if their lives depended on it. So am I supposed to take your word over journalists who drive for a living? Ya right.....:rolleyes:
 
#15 ·
Actually, I HAVE driven the car fully equipped and I think it definitely drives like a Buick more than a lexus. If you've driven the Lucerne or Regal, it is fairly similar. Not exact, but I think closer. There is nothing wrong with that if that is what you like. To each his/her own.
I am disappointed with the departure from BMW's core feel, which Car and Driver and Consumer Reports have stated many times.

REad these reviews:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q3/2011_bmw_550i_automatic_and_manual-short_take_road_test

AND

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q4/2011_bmw_528i-short_take_road_test

When car and driver calls a BMW "spooky" you really have to think twice, unless you are looking for a different target.

Now, importantly I am not saying that the current BMW is a worse car - it is just different. Some people want a lexus/buick/F10 and others like a "sports" feel. I dont know why that causes angst on either side.
 
#17 · (Edited)
You have driven a car with IAS, really. You are the only one here or in any of the magazines. C&D test car did NOT have IAS. So, why should I believe anything else you say. Once you get the car and own it then you will have a basis of comparison. My car is definitely not "Spooky". It is amazing.
 
#18 ·
I am glad it is amazing! You are clearly the type that likes the lexus/buick feel! I have no problem with it! I find the car lacking in enthusiast feel. But your opinion is valuable t you. But I would never buy that type of car at this point, I am more of an enthusiast. Best of luck with your car however!
 
#29 · (Edited)
When I said amazing I was referring to the handling in high speed maneuvers. It may feel like a Lexus or a Buick, but it drives and handles better than my 650i or E39 M5. It feels different, but it actually handles better. The rear drive versions will handle better because of the availability of four wheel steering, and the xDrive versions will handle better because the instantaneous torque vectoring rear to front in high speed maneuvers. To me this is the essence of enthusiastic driving, not the feel. To me performance is the important part of enthusiastic driving, feel is a secondary consideration.

But please don't accuse me of "You are clearly the type that likes the lexus/buick feel!" If that were true why would I have owned an E39 M5, 540i sport, and 650i sport. In 1992 I test drove back to back the Lexus LS 400 and the new BMW 740i. There was no comparison. I even equipped my new 740 with the EDC so I could have the option of comfort or sport dampers. The first time I drove a car on a racetrack was at Bridgehampton in 1974. I even won a couple of trophies in road rally competitions as a young man. I have been an "enthusiast" since I got my license in 1964, and have read every issue of R&T and C&D since then. I have driven all the M cars on the track at the BMW facility in South Carolina. So, please don't insult me personally by saying "You are clearly the type that likes the lexus/buick feel!"

If you think that any Lexus or Buick can keep up on the road or the track with a fully equipped 550i with either xDrive or IAS, I think you are sadly mistaken. I have owned an E39 M5 and can tell you the properly equipped 550i outperforms the M5, and to me it doesn't matter if you think it feels like a Buick or Lexus. What matters to me is performance.

As I have said many times before, the only real criticism of the 550i is the absence of the option of getting real high performance summer tires such as the Bridgestone Potenza RE050A RFTs that were OE on my 650i sport. But this is not the car's fault and is easily fixed with an additional expenditure of less than $2000. I am even giving strong consideration to spending $5000 to both change the tires and add the Dinan software to the car. I guess you might think that 495hp and 573 lb ft of torque is strictly for the type of guy who likes the the "lexus/buick feel". Good Grief! :thumbup:
 
#20 ·
In my experience of driving the f10 is that it is a cruiser. Nice for the back seat. It is comfortable, and feels large. Maybe that is the 7 influence. It is nice to ride in and read a book from the back, or just relax. I think that it will be popular for that type of job.

As someone who enjoys driving the car,I would hope that BMW takes these reviews seriously. They have changed cars in the past for feedback. I bet that they will change this one. When consumer reports even calls them out, then it will be hard for them to respond. Here's to the 2012 version!
 
#22 ·
My only experience with the F10 was the comparo invitation. I drove the new 535 done up minimally, and the 550 with all the goodies. I felt the 535 was pretty Lexus-like, with better power and an interior more to my taste, but not particularly fun to drive. The loaded 550 was head and shoulders above that, and had more seat-of-the-pants power, true, but it also handled like a completely different car.

When I got back in my E60, I ran the exact same course. My E60 is not sport packaged at all, yet it felt that it had much more power than F10 535, and the difference in handling was like the difference between my 535 and a 335; it was just a different natured car altogether.
 
#23 ·
I have not yet driven the same car that Rich has....a 550 ix with all the performance/sport options. I have one coming with the Msport package, sport transmission, etc. That's the same as Rich's, I believe. As soon as I have a chance to drive it properly (once the brake-in period is over), I will post a review. But no one can dismiss the experts (C&D, etc) who are normally total BMW fans. They are truly capable of reviewing cars objectively, and while they may not "get" the controls, as those take some time to learn, they can certainly "get" the driveability - they do that day in and day out, and they do it with all the new cars they drive.

When I considered selling my 993 and buying the 997, I heard all of the criticisms of the "cushy" new Porsche 997 vs. 993. But I started to drive the 997 with an open mind. The 997 drives entirely differently, but it's still a driver's car. Fantastic engine and suspension, amazing steering, like you're on a rail. More comfortable and larger than the 993, little more planted, less "squirrely". A true improvement (though some consider me a traitor, abandoning the last air cooled Porsche). If the F10 is a comparable improvement/ compromise over the M5 (yes, I am aware of the apple-to-apple comparison flaw), or maybe the "straight" E39, I will be thrilled, even if the performance is enhanced by electronic gismos.
 
#24 ·
BMW did a great job with the F10 except for the lack of SPORTS. Over than that gross oversight it is a fine car. Unfortunately it has always been a SPORTS Sedan. Therefore when BMW dumbs down the SPORTS Sedan character of the F10, it is rather unexpected and disappointing to the BMW faithful and auto journalists. Even if BMW made some missteps on a prior model, you could always count on the car as being fun to drive. That is why you buy a BMW. They are fun to drive. Hopefully BMW is busily working at damage control and will make the necessary adjustments sooner rather than later on the F10.
 
#25 ·
If you want a sporty sedan, BMW has your answer: the 3er.

Every generation of BMWs tends to morph into the role of the larger model range. To say the current 3er is light, agile, and pure driving joy like E36 or E30 would be silly. Similarly, to expect the F10 to react like an E39 would be aiming at the wrong target.
 
#28 ·
BTW, what about steering in the current 7 series? I haven't read in reviews about problems with their steering. Do they also have "numb" feeling, but it's accepted for that class, or the steering in 7 series is currently better than in 5 series (taking into account that 7s are bigger)? As I understand, 7 series still have hydraulic steering, unlike non x-drive F10s.
Also, is there consensus about steering in x-drive vs non x-drive F10s? Again, one is hydraulic and the other one is electric.
 
#31 ·
The F10 is over reliant on electronics for suspension and steering. Plus they are trying to be too broad and not decisive about what the F10 is all about. They are trying to do all things well. As a direct result everything is compromised in terms of luxury and sport. They rely on electronic doo dads to do this amd it does not work. Plus throw in good old fashioned German determination and stubbornness and the 5 Series as we know it is seriously compromised.
 
#33 ·
As we have discussed before, the issue may be one of subjective sportiness versus objective performance. It is the computer controls that make the F10 perform better than the "5 series as we know it". To me having the luxury and refinement of a Lexus LS 460 combined with the performance of an E39 M5 is very, very sweet indeed. Add in the winter capabilities of an SUV and you have what I consider to be an engineering miracle. It's just different strokes for different folks, I guess. :thumbup:
 
#32 · (Edited)
I have this simple minded view of the modern consumer world. Everything can be split into two categories: "experience" or "commodity". For example, an off-the-rack suit from Target is "commodity" where all that matters is price and reasonable performance. An Armani suit is "experience" because there is more to it than the mere physical clothing: it's the special feeling of being fitted, the nicer feeling material, the slightly more tailored look and, yes, the bragging rights of the brand.
Similarly with cars. You can buy a Toyota for $17k and it gets you reliably where you want to go. But if you seek an experience, you will buy a BMW or Mercedes or Lexus, whatever. Each has its own market. But for a car to be successful, it has to cater to a particular market seeking a particular experience. So, if BMW is the "ultimate driving machine", that embodies the experience. If different aspects of that experience no longer fit coherently with one another - the car performs well objectively, but doesn't feel right, which is, in my mind, the core of the criticism - then the "BMW experience" is no longer there. And I don't think you can virtually create that experience by push buttons.
Perhaps this is why BMW changed its slogan - they are no longer selling the "driving machine" experience. They are selling the "joy" experience. So the enthusiasts who are still after the "driving machine" experience must look elsewhere.
 
#34 · (Edited)
BMW has consistently marketed the subjective. Look at their current Joy campaign. That is not about a bunch of computer instruments and their readings. I care nothing about the luxury and refinement of a Lexus. If I wanted that I would have bought a Lexus, which I would never do. If I wanted a 4 wheel drive engineering miracle I would have bought an Audi. I want what the 5 Series has always been until now, a BMW Sports Sedan. I wanted a Sports Package with true sports components, not a sport aesthetic package. The sport part of the F10 is a major disappointment. Unfortunately that is why I and other enthusiasts have purchased BMW's in the past. Certainly I am not the only person raising these questions about the F10. Our concerns, regardless of what instruments show, are quite real. Hopefully BMW will fix their blunders as they have in the past. Immediate cheap fixes would be to offer Sport Springs to the purchasers of the F10 with free installation and adjust the software for the suspension and steering.

Whatevever the fix is, it should be retoactive and a retrofit for those of us BMW faithful that trusted that BMW would deliver a a true Sorts Sedan in the F10.
 
#35 ·
You'll have to wait for the new 3 series (F30). It's more likely to be the car that inherits the previous 5 series DNA. Meanwhile, everyone who laments the loss of the ultimate driving machine with the discontinuation of the E60 should take note of the fact that the F10, for all of its alleged shortcomings, has no real competition in the luxury sports niche.
 
#36 ·
To give the devil it's do, I just spent a long evening of fairly high speed freeway driving on my new 550ix Sport. The steering certainly tightened up. Thankfully. Very pleased with that turn of events. However, I, like most people on this board, do most of my driving around town. THAT is when the steering problem shows itself for what it is. Numb. Every time I pull out of my garage, and down my driveway, I say "****" I don't like this. Hopefully there can be some type of electronic fix for this electronic steering. It's going to drive me crazy. I know I'll never get used to it. I know what the steering of a BMW is supposed to feel like (like knowing pornography when I see it, as a famous Supreme Ct. Justice once said) and this is not it.
 
#37 ·
Funny, every time I drive my car around town and in parking lots I say to myself, "Boy do I like this steering at low speeds". I also like the way it tightens up on the interstate as I do a fair amount of intercity driving.

BTW, you should know that your 550i xDrive does NOT have electric steering assist. All the xDrive cars have hydralic steering assist. :thumbup:
 
#41 · (Edited)
On my way to work today in my E60 535xi loaner I thought about something that made me more pessimistic about the likelyhood of "fixing" the F10. The loaner has basic setup, i.e no ars or sports tuned suspension and rides on relatively narrow all season rubber, however it is fun to drive. It seems that the E60 has sports sedan carved into it's dna and you can't hide it even with lesser components. I find myself taking any opportunity to link "fast" turns (within the speed limit of course ) with a grin on my face. The F10 on the other hand seems to have cruiser in it's dna and not even "sports" components can hide it. Perhaps a full re-design is needed to bring the sports sedan funfer back. Hopefully though bmw will bring out it's magic wand and show me wrong otherwise i fear that the new M5 will be a Bill Gates version of an american muscle car...
 
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