BimmerFest BMW Forum banner

Run Flat Tires

72K views 177 replies 48 participants last post by  Masterx5 
#1 ·
My X3 is having 245/50/R18 Pirelli Run Flat Tire; for well known reasons, I intend to replace the RFT with conventional tires. I think a Michelin Primacy MXM4, or Bridgestone Turanza Serenity Plus. Any opinion, any issues?
Thanks.
 
#2 ·
Aside from wearing out the Run Flat Tires already, any other reason to change them now?

At this point the only reason I have to consider switching them out is to get tires that have better grip than the all season Pirellis it came with. No real opinion of the two alternatives you mentioned
 
#4 ·
Ride quality worse than conventional tires; you drive the 50 miles after a puncture but no auto store have the RFT to replace it, therefore you are stuck there; you can fix a punctured conventional tire and go, but you can not fix the RFT; life expectancy shorter; more expensive. Enough reasons for me!
 
#6 ·
I have the Michelin MXM4 Primacy non-run flat. They are great. The X3 is now quiet.

With the OEM Pirelli tires the X3 sounded like it had mud tires. Also, at 30K miles the Pirelli's were worn out. I always maintained the air pressure and rotated those tires.

Of course the Michelin's balanced out perfectly. The Michelin's ride good, confident grip will in the rain. Very happy with the switch.

If Michelin had made an all season run flat for the X3 I would have purchased them, but they don't.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I have the Michelin MXM4 Primacy non-run flat. They are great. The X3 is now quiet.

With the OEM Pirelli tires the X3 sounded like it had mud tires. Also, at 30K miles the Pirelli's were worn out. I always maintained the air pressure and rotated those tires.

Of course the Michelin's balanced out perfectly. The Michelin's ride good, confident grip will in the rain. Very happy with the switch.

If Michelin had made an all season run flat for the X3 I would have purchased them, but they don't.
My 2012 X3 with 17 inch tires have the Michelin Primacy MXM4 ZP Run Flat tires. They were the OEM tires on my vehicle. I think they are quite good. I couldn't even tell that the tires on the X3 are run flats. The ride is no way as harsh as the run flats on my old 2006 SC 430. Those had 18 inch wheels with Dunlop run flats. Horrible. I used to brace myself when a bump was coming. Changed them to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and the car felt completely different. .
 
#7 ·
I hear that RFT from bridgestong RE960 are 3rd gen and they are supposed to be quite good - as reviewed on tirerack for an E90....
still torn between RFT and nonRFT - it is just the hassle of always keeping another spare in the trunk and that eating up the space and carrying extra weight all the time !!
 
#11 ·
I like the RFT's!
Many of the views about these tires are based on earlier versions. The technology has improved.

Complaints about rough(er) ride are dubious. I have driven on conventional tires of all sorts that "rode" roughly and were noisy.

The car's suspensions are tuned for run flats.

My mechanic opines that run flats corner better--stiffer sidewalls. Few will drive a car to this limit though.

I will say RFT's are beneficial in areas where roads are pot hole filled. The stiffer sidewalls protect the rim and the tire IMOP.

Many replace their RFT's with high performance tires. Great but still problematic if you blow one (real trouble if you blow two).
Many of these tires are almost as hard to replace as RFT's.

Everyone with RFT's should spring for the Continental pump and gunk kit for emergencies.
 
#17 ·
I have had RFT from 2001 till now.
So I have about 12 years of BMW RFT experience.
My 1st thru 3rd - instantly got a second set of wheels and conventional tires and loved them.

My 4th and current BMW and still don't like the RFT.

Yes, it's getting better but still not as quiet or comfortable as conventional tires.

I thought this latest set I got on my month old X would be better - yes it's quieter but still bouncy in the ride. Feels like I am on a roller coaster ride due to the higher center of gravity in the X.

Just found a spare on Craigslist so I am going to ditch the RFT and get a set of Conti DWS tires.

Can't wait to report back with conventional tires on these 20" wheels.....
 
#13 ·
Agree with the RFT contingent, I think they handle well and are not noisy at all.

Has anyone had real experience with the air pump/sealant systems? I remember trying to use one years ago and it was a real waste, didn't work at all. I assume that they are much improved today. Is there a best brand?
 
#14 ·
Those who like RFT, I can bet, you never had a puncture, yet! After a puncture you drive 50 ml. to discover that no shop have RFT; what to do? you want to repair the tire, and you are told that is risky because inside the tire the belt can be damaged and is not safe; you have to replace it, and you are told you should replace all four tires; and instead of paying $ 30 to repair a conventional tire you end up paying $2500. Nice!
 
#16 ·
I agree that run flat tires suck. But driving down the highway last week on a very rainy day. I saw a guy on the side of the road changing a flat tire in the rain. Made me very glad I have the run flats. There are also 5 dealers here with in 50miles of me so I doubt I'll have the issue of finding a tire. Only troubling thing is if I ever plan a long road trip. But I'll deal with that when the time comes.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
 
#18 ·
Maybe I am wrong, but until I get some personal experience I will stick to RFTs. I do prefer that my wife makes it back home with our daughter and then we will deal with the tires. She won't be messing with any kind of repair on the roadside and here in Quebec it often may take many hours before you get road assistance. And the distance between the school and home is very reasonable for RTFs. This argument also gets stronger in winter. As for me, even considering that I could change the wheel, often it would be unsafe or even impossible (on the bridge). Again, I prefer some limited mobility to safely make it home.
 
#20 ·
Here's the BMW company line:
Monty Roberts from BMW Product and Technology communications tells us that run flat tires are standard on most BMW models with the exception of some BMW M Models. He said specifically that run flat tires have several advantages and that they ***8220;Support BMW***8217;s EfficientDynamics Strategy by eliminating the extra weight of the spare tire, jack and tools in the vehicle for better balance, dynamic handling and fuel efficiency.***8221;

When asked about the criticism of run flat tires Roberts said ***8220;run flat tires by their design do have stiffer sidewalls than conventional tires, however, all current BMW models that use run flat tires have suspensions that were significantly developed for use with this technology.***8221; He added ***8220;These suspensions have been developed and tuned for the best possible ride comfort. The safety benefits of run flat tires are so significant as to outweigh any possible trade-offs.***8221;

When asked if owners could or should swap out their run flats either when a replacement tire is needed or because they***8217;re looking for added performance, Roberts was unequivocal. ***8220;We do not recommend replacing run flat tires with conventional tires,***8221; he said, ***8220;that deviates away from the original design, safety and suspension calibration technology that the run flats were originally designed for.***8221;


Question for all those replacing their RFT's with conventional tires:
Are you also having your suspensions recalibrated?
 
#24 ·
Here's the BMW company line:
Monty Roberts from BMW Product and Technology communications tells us that run flat tires are standard on most BMW models with the exception of some BMW M Models. He said specifically that run flat tires have several advantages and that they "Support BMW's EfficientDynamics Strategy by eliminating the extra weight of the spare tire, jack and tools in the vehicle for better balance, dynamic handling and fuel efficiency."

When asked about the criticism of run flat tires Roberts said "run flat tires by their design do have stiffer sidewalls than conventional tires, however, all current BMW models that use run flat tires have suspensions that were significantly developed for use with this technology." He added "These suspensions have been developed and tuned for the best possible ride comfort. The safety benefits of run flat tires are so significant as to outweigh any possible trade-offs."

When asked if owners could or should swap out their run flats either when a replacement tire is needed or because they're looking for added performance, Roberts was unequivocal. "We do not recommend replacing run flat tires with conventional tires," he said, "that deviates away from the original design, safety and suspension calibration technology that the run flats were originally designed for."
You know the famous "Why don't they eat a cake if they have no bread?" - that was for a longest time a default quote to signify "living in a bubble" and "detachment from reality". I think Mr Roberts needs to leave his usual bubble and visit the real world. In the real world, problems like closed tire stores on a Sunday of a Labor Day weekend happen quite often. Then people get sick of the BS and replace run-flat tires with regular tires since they have to lug around a spare anyway. Why not use the superior product at lower price when you have proven that run-flats without a spare are as useless as a bicycle is to the fish?

Ah, the spare tire and THE GENIUS of BMW engineering to not provide space for the spare tire ... See, I don't need spare tire if I drive in 50 mile radius from home - cell phone and a tow will do the job nicely and without a problem. Yes, if I cannot afford to spend $200 for a tow, I have no business driving a new BMW. Besides, just one set of tires without flat already offset the cost of the tow - and then some. And I'm on third set now, so ...

So, I do not need a spare for around town driving, that's established. But I do need it for a road trip, don't I? Now, BMW engineering geniuses, what else normal people take with them in the car when going on the road trip? No, not the slide rule, Hans ... they take luggage. You know? Thingy that holds your clothes, toiletries and weed? Yeah, that. Good. Now ... Do you have an idea where the said luggage is supposed to go? Werner, drop that stupid roof box design sketch and come back here! Where were we ? ... oh, yes, where to place the luggage in the car? ... anybody? No? OK, geniuses, the luggage is supposed to go THERE. That's what we call "trunk" and load it with luggage for road trip. Do you see what's in there? Ja, ze spare tire, correct. Soooo ... how am I going to fit the luggage in the trunk when a spare tire is there, geniuses? You know, the luggage that I need for a road trip?

Crickets ... after two years, still only crickets.

Seriously now, I travel a lot around this country and I lived in Europe for the first 34 years of my life. I get how Europeans (especially Germans) might see this as ideal solution. The problem is, when I think of long road trips I did all over Eastern US and possibility to do it in a BMW without a spare ... no, thank you. Even if rental company would offer to "upgrade" me to a BMW free of charge - Not. Going. To. Happen. Not without a spare tire, anyway.

Question for all those replacing their RFT's with conventional tires:
Are you also having your suspensions recalibrated?
Nope, you already recalibrated it when you mounted regular high-quality tires. It's about as perfect as it will ever be now. :)
 
#21 ·
As with everything there are different sides of truth. Personally I do believe that RFTs add some convenience. And no doubts they have disadvantages. But you need to put this in the context of BMW. It is a luxury car. BMW is not competing with Honda Civics. They are selling their cars to the rich people, who are supposed to value comfort and service over cost. So they have built the cars and service organizations around them to make you comfortable but that comes at certain price. Why do you think they sell you the tire protection package? BMW expects you to finish at least a part of your trip on flat tire, then push that button at the top, call their road assistance, be towed to the nearest dealer. Where depending on the degree of damage (read - in most of the cases) you will have to buy a new set of tires at $1500 or so and get back on the road. If they do not have tires in stock you will drive away in another BMW car - at least if you live nearby.

It is also much simpler for BMW to design the cars when imposing certain limitations on the customers. You play by their rules, you agree to pay decent premium and you get decent service. Step left or step right - you are in troubles. Not too much different from Apple, if you think about it. Is that a reason to hate Apple? No. It is just not for everybody, that's all.

BTW, I am not defending their position. Personally I do consider $1500 for a set of tires is a lot of money, especially for a a nail hole that could be patched for less than $20 in 15 minutes anywhere. But by buying $70K vehicle you kind of agree to play by their rules. Just like when buying $2500 MacBook Pro you agree that your battery is soldered and glued to the board and you can't really buy a replacement one on ebay for $50 and replace it yourself.

I think the worst thing about RFTs is when you are travelling. I hate the idea of being in the middle of nowhere, 500km away from home with family and kids and having a punctured tire that ruins our vacation - not only because of $1500 but because it is Sunday and there is no BMW dealership in 300km from there ;) I do believe that before going to the trip like this I will seriously think about getting a spare tire and the tools...or maybe even renting another car to be safer, which may be cheaper.

For home here is my personal plan on how to deal with RFTs. What is my problem? My problem is that I do not want to be caught with a need to shell out $1500+ for the set of new tires at the dealership suddenly after getting a nail. I want to try to fix it if possible and if not - buy a decent set of tires at fair price, not to be forced to pay a high premium to BMW dealer. I am thinking about not driving my current all-season tires to the end and replacing them with another set of (better) all season tires when the time comes. And then I will put the old set away instead of recycling them. So, if I get into troubles with my new tires I will have an option to put these used tires temporary and drive 1-2 weeks on them. That will allow me to do my research and order a good set of tires online and receive them. Or even order one replacement tire and have it shaved to the proper depth - I know TireRack offers this option.

Anyone else has any other practical plans on how to live with RFTs and not to go above your budget?
 
#22 ·
Continental is well known for making RFT's.

Locally they now also sell "Contiseal" non-RFT's - albeit only in 2 sizes. This has an inner lining promising to seal punctures. Unfortunately only covers the inner tread area...

Now if only they could include this lining also on the inner sidewalls (together with the inner tread area) of their RFT's - and one may have the best of both worlds...
 
#23 ·
As for tire and wheel protection packages--
They are offered by a lot of manufacturers and RFT's are NOT the main reason
Low profile tires (non RFT included) and alloy wheels are expensive!

When Volvo updated their image and put low profile tires and alloy wheels on their cars--Volvo drivers not used to being extra diligent for pot holes and road obstructions inundated the company with complaints (I believe there was a class action suit).

That IMOP is a real benefit of RFT's--the stiffer and stronger sidewalls afford additional protection to the tire and the wheel. Also I suffered conventional tires with failed sidewalls (bubbles) occasionally--from Pirellis ago Michelins. I have not encountered any such problem with the Conti RFT's.

As for the luxury issue.
The BMW's I have driven compare favorably to Audi's, M-B's Volvos etc as far as comfortable ride. These are not overly damped and cushy cars--trading a limousine ride for handling etc.

Then there is my question:
If the car's suspension is specially tuned for RFT's then one would assume the ride and handling are compensated for. Switching to conventional tires would, again, one would assume, compromise something?

Finally supposing one blows two conventional tires at the same time? (I did this once)
not to mention a flat in heavy city traffic or in bad weather on a road in the middle of nowhere?

My experience with RFT's has been just fine.
 
#25 · (Edited)
I don't get the "closed stores" thing. You can't get conventional tires in these cases.

My question about the suspension remains unanswered!

Also--we will never agree here.
There are pluses and minuses to both RFT's and conventional tires.

More and more tire stores are carrying RFT's and no one has mentioned all the car dealership (BMW plus M-B et al).
Where one can get an RFT.

There's that nagging safety issue.
I can think of a lot of interesting neighborhoods where a dude (or God forbid his wife or daughter) were trying to get
a donut on a BMW (or waiting for a tow truck) after pulling off the interstate. (another great place to change a tire).

No
I was skeptical about RFT's after reading stories on the Tire Rack site etc and even hesitated when getting my last 328 but
now after four years? I am never going back!
 
#28 ·
I don't get the "closed stores" thing. You can't get conventional tires in these cases.
True. But before BMW's mass-brainwashing, you would not think "stranded", you would think "Dammit, now I'm going to have to get dirty with that spare!"

My question about the suspension remains unanswered!
I can only give you my experience. The suspension is working better now with (admittedly better/higher quality) normal tires. Car was up to very high speeds on RFTs (Autobahn+racetrack) and car was on up to very high speeds on regular tires (racetrack) - no comparison, regular tires are much better paired with OEM suspension. At least in my opinion.

I was skeptical about RFT's after reading stories on the Tire Rack site etc and even hesitated when getting my last 328 but
now after four years? I am never going back!
I'm glad you like them. Some of us don't. It's normal. It would be VERY abnormal if we would all want to marry the same woman - thus I do not understand BMW's pathological insisting on forcing the issue on their customers. Just engineer that dang space for spare tire and let your customers chose what combination they want out of the four possible in order to achieve best perceived safety and convenience.

What's wrong with choices?
 
#27 ·
I would also compare the RFTs with electric cars. What about the electric cars? It is actually worse than the RFT. You are low on charge and you are in the middle of nowhere. Or your battery loses the charge quickly because of humidity. Or you get stuck in traffic. Whatever, your car is totally useless now. It needs to be towed and charged. But we all agree that the electric cars is the ultimate future, right? Not in next 5 years maybe, but in 10 years, for example. So what? The early adopters pay the price for these manufacturers entering the new market. But with the time their life will get easier and easier because the infrastructure will be more and more available.

Same for RFT. They do represent the advancement in the tire design, does everyone agree? Technologically speaking, they have obvious advantages over regular tires. And while many high-performance conventional tires are still better the RFTs do get better too. And they get cheaper, they are now only 10-20% more expensive than regular tires. Just like with the electric cars I think in a couple of years they will be everywhere. But as early adopters we have to pay the price now :)
 
#29 · (Edited)
I'm glad you like them. Some of us don't. It's normal. It would be VERY abnormal if we would all want to marry the same woman - thus I do not understand BMW's pathological insisting on forcing the issue on their customers. Just engineer that dang space for spare tire and let your customers chose what combination they want out of the four possible in order to achieve best perceived safety and convenience.

Funny--I feel the same way about that darn stop/start system!
Why can't it be the default--
I use a computer all day and when I get in my car I would really like to feel like I am driving a car and not
still operating a computer!
My guess is the RFT thing ain't going away and the technology will continue to improve.

Love those good old days more and more the older I get!
 
#31 ·
Is it really true that the suspension of a 2011 535ix is "tuned" to run-flat tires, and that installing non-run-flats would somehow upset the suspension tuning?
A good question.
Only a real techie can answer it.

I don't know if any tuning would be "upset."
Rather, the issue is the response, feel and handling?

I can say that even conventional tires are selected for cars by engineers for OEM's.
I had an old front wheel drive Volvo Coupe. Blew a conventional Michelin that came with the car---incredibly great tires (forget the model) for handling and ride and noise.
discovered Michelin stopped producing the tires and I ended up having to buy four different models--recommended as best replacements for the originals by Michelin.

Horrible! I went from the best tires to the worst.
 
#32 ·
I have a 2011 X3 which came with the Pirelli factory tires which I had patched quite a number of times but of course none of them were in the sidewall. These were done at a tire store and not the dealership where I was very comfortable with them. The Pirelli's only got about 27,000 miles but the outer front edges were terribly worn for many miles before that. I asked the SA what his thoughts were about the wearing and he said it was the curvy roads I drive on. BS! The parts dept. gave me quotes on 3 different tires that were recommended by BMW but I bought them (Bridgestone) from my tire shop and saved a few hundred dollars.
 
#33 ·
When my first set of RFTs wore out at 23k, I replaced them and spent another $100 on a tread life warranty to 72k. My tire dealer and I reviewed all the fine print and the warranty apparently does not exclude RFTs. I also discovered that the tire/wheels were not within factory specs from the factory which contributed to my short tire life.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top