BimmerFest BMW Forum banner

BMW E60, 545i N62, Engine Removal, Rebuild, Installation

268K views 819 replies 62 participants last post by  bimmer7410 
#1 ·
This thread is for the removal/rebuild/installation of my engine. The title to my previous thread was about a head gasket, which was no longer really the case

I will go back and add the early pictures and more detail to this thread later. Below are all the ones from last weekend and this weekend.

--------------------------

Alright, ENGINE IS OUT!

Here are pics from the day--will go back and add text later. Overall, I can't feel any real wear on the cylinders of the old engine (fingernail doesn't catch at the top), but the thing is leaking from every seal there is. Oil pan, timing cover, alternator seal, rear main seal, rear coolant cover, you name it, they are all leaking. Anyways.. here are pictures

On the way to the parents house with the engine.. dog came with me


Getting "new" engine out of the truck. That was a chore as there wasn't much room to back the truck in


Another of the same






well, there she is


Here's how I left it last time..


Here's how I left it


Pulled alternator out


Not sure




Shot from underneath


Trying to figure out what to do about those transmission oil lines--ended up removing them from transmission and leaving the connected to the engine


Another--AC compressor unbolted


A lot of sensors unhooked, wires hanging everywhere




Torque converter to flex plate bolts






And finally a visible one


Plug that covers access to torque converter bolts


Torque conv. bolts + crankshaft sensor






I dread putting all those wires back










Thought I was ready to pull it out.. then found one more bellhousing bolt




 
See less See more
32
#115 ·
Great thread, I am greatful for all the work you put into taking these pictures

Great thread, I am greatfull for all the work you put into taking these pictures...This thread will be of good help to a lot of people who plan on doing the same to their 545I...I own a 2004 also and plan on taking the heads out in the near future...

Thx again..
 
#116 · (Edited)
Here's a close up of the glue holding them on









And some new tool organization stuff showed up today from Ernst. They are twist lock socket holders--they seem awesome so far. Going to order enough to do most of my sockets this way--this is just the odd ball stuff I didn't have a decent way to store. I can turn this upside down and shake it and nothing comes off. Woohoo.


Alright, here's the AN30 paste--nasty looking stuff.


It's a pretty thick paste, seems to have a small bit of sparkly stuff in it
 
#117 · (Edited)
Probably a variation of Gorilla glue, and the hard part is the amount that soaked into the pads to get a good hold...won't be easy to get that off the backing plate. Maybe you'd get lucky with the diameters, and something like a larger hose clamp around the 3 arms of the hone to keep them spaced correctly, then attach the plates with their pads on them?

Or, slot the pads where they attach to the plate, and run a band clamp through there?....

Ooooo tools!! :) - what are the reverse-torx sockets called? I need a set...
 
#118 ·
Probably a variation of Gorilla glue, and the hard part is the amount that soaked into the pads to get a good hold...won't be easy to get that off the backing plate. Maybe you'd get lucky with the diameters, and something like a larger hose clamp around the 3 arms of the hone to keep them spaced correctly, then attach the plates with their pads on them?

Or, slot the pads where they attach to the plate, and run a band clamp through there?....

Ooooo tools!! :) - what are the reverse-torx sockets called? I need a set...
I believe they're called e-torx sockets (edit--just googled it, try looking up external torx sockets)--found a set of snap on ones on eBay for a good price a while back. A necessity for working on German cars

Looks like I need some new regular torx bits too--I didn't realize how twisted a few of mine were!

Sounds like some good ideas on the felt--at this point my order for rod/crank bearings is a few weeks out as one bearing has to come out of Germany (literally one piece..) so I have plenty of time to figure out what to do it looks like. I really want this thing running before Christmas
 
#120 ·
Def. worth looking at--not sure how I'd control the amount of outward pressure though is the only thing. Although I'm not sure how it's done on the Sunnen style hones either
 
#125 ·
I am working on a summary list of all the dimensions/tolerances for bearings/rings, etc. and all of the torque specs needed to put the engine back together so that I'll have everything in one place when it's time to assemble everything

Is anyone interested in me posting this after it's complete?
 
#128 ·
Hey drove the 545i up to Raleigh today. Would love to see the project but I think I am going to be swamped....

I have not seen mentioned (I don't think) but there is another N62 recent rebuild post on this site. The guy had prepped the cylinders for the Aulsil block. Originally I thought he messed up because the walls looked like shiny glass. I am use to seeing a nice cross hatching.

Do you recall the thread? I will try and find but it was a few weeks ago and the guy rebuilt his N62.
 
#130 ·
Yeah you are on it, of course. Post #14 pic #4. So someone else did the work? Who? As they seem to have done a nice job.

I talked with my good GM tranny expert and I think we are going to drop the sub-frame in a couple weeks, remove the exhaust header and try and clean the ports from "down under". I will see how it goes....
 
#132 ·
Here is what I'm thinking for using these Sunnen pads. Basically block of aluminum + some holes + some springs. Of course I'd add something out the top to connect this whole contraption up to a drill or something

 
#133 ·
Here is what I'm thinking for using these Sunnen pads. Basically block of aluminum + some holes + some springs. Of course I'd add something out the top to connect this whole contraption up to a drill or something

Looks good - put springs on all pad posts for uniform pressure. (I think Home Depot has a selection of springs)
 
#138 · (Edited)
Does anyone who has dealt with these engines think I am totally insane for going this route?

On another forum I am being told there's no way it will work, cylinders can't still be round enough to seat new rings, coating is going to come off the cylinders, cylinders needs to be bored or it will wear out in no time trying to use used pistons, bearings will wear wrong, crank won't be balanced right, etc. etc. I really think it will work, why wouldn't it? Alusil cylinders (which are NOT a coating by the way) literally almost don't wear, guys on Porsche forums have been re-ringing with just a deglaze with scotch brite pads for years on very high mileage engines. I'm putting in all new bearings + will have a machine shop see if the crank needs to be polished and is in spec first, same for the rods/pistons. I don't see the problem.

Guess we'll see. I sure as heck hope it works and works well.. the whole point for me is to basically get a "new" engine that will last longer than I'll have the car. Otherwise it's not worth spending this much money on parts honestly

On another note: all of my parts are ready to ship except for ONE half of ONE bearing, lol. It had to be shipped over from Germany and will be another week or two

I am taking Monday afternoon off from work to take all of these parts to the machine shop to get going on that portion
 
#139 ·
Does anyone who has dealt with these engines think I am totally insane for going this route?

On another forum I am being told there's no way it will work, cylinders can't still be round enough to seat new rings, coating is going to come off the cylinders, cylinders needs to be bored or it will wear out in no time trying to use used pistons, bearings will wear wrong, crank won't be balanced right, etc. etc. I really think it will work, why wouldn't it? Alusil cylinders (which are NOT a coating by the way) literally almost don't wear, guys on Porsche forums have been re-ringing with just a deglaze with scotch brite pads for years on very high mileage engines. I'm putting in all new bearings + will have a machine shop see if the crank needs to be polished and is in spec first, same for the rods/pistons. I don't see the problem.

Guess we'll see. I sure as heck hope it works and works well.. the whole point for me is to basically get a "new" engine that will last longer than I'll have the car. Otherwise it's not worth spending this much money on parts honestly

On another note: all of my parts are ready to ship except for ONE half of ONE bearing, lol. It had to be shipped over from Germany and will be another week or two

I am taking Monday afternoon off from work to take all of these parts to the machine shop to get going on that portion
You can check the cylinders for roundness - what worries me is the "1/2 of 1 bearing - are they not made in sets - what the hecks that all about??????
 
#141 ·
Updates from today:

-Plastigauge'd the "new" engine (with old bearings) main bearings and all are dead on the middle of the spec except for one (but was still in). Basically front main was .0019", the rest were .0015" or maybe .0016", about as accurate as I can get with plastigauge. The spec is about .001" to .002", so I feel good about the crank.

-Checked gaps on all the new rings. All were right at the high side of the gap allowed but in spec. None will need to be filed it appears (haven't checked all the oil rings yet, just top/second rings)

-Ran some tests on the AN30 polishing compound and the cylinder prep process that is required. Basically the idea is to etch away some of the aluminum in the cylinder bores while leaving behind the silicone, so that the rings ride on the silicone.

It looks like I need a drill with a little more range to it--mine seems to be either too fast or too slow. The only cylinder I got results like I THINK I'm looking for was the last one where I used the drill at a high speed for probably a minute. Unfortunately it nearly ripped the felt off the hone so I don't want to go that fast on the "new" block.

The result I'm after is a dull grey with basically no crosshatch. It should feel almost like a chalkboard when you rub it with your fingers.

Here are some pictures:

I ended up finding some big sheets of felt at work that had a really strong adhesive on them. I just wrapped them around the honing stones and stickied them to themselves--these held up fine for everything I did today. I still want to try to get the real Sunnen pads going. I played with them a little and I think they'll do a much better job


This is the first try--it is def. different from what it looked like in the beginning, but I think this combo was too much scotchbrite last weekend + not enough AN30 time today


Left has been through the felt + AN30 process, cylinder on right has not


Another one after doing some "polishing"


Unpolished cylinder (scotch brite only)


Another unpolished


Polished


Now this is the one I went longer on + sped up the drill. I need someway of getting a speed higher than "low" on this drill, and lower than the speed used in this cylinder. I was afraid it was going to rip the felt off..

This is the one I thought was by far the best


Another shot of it--looks pretty dull grey'ish, much more like what I am after (I think anyways)


And parts going to the machine shop tomorrow. Oh the irony of a Honda hauling a BMW engine to the machine shop.. lol. Even funnier to me is that block couldn't have weighed more than 50-60lbs--I felt like the hulk putting a block in the trunk, haha


Welp, that's it for today.
 
#149 · (Edited)
This is the one I thought was by far the best


Another shot of it--looks pretty dull grey'ish, much more like what I am after (I think anyways)
Just wanted to give a quick update here that may help someone in the future

I posted these pictures on another forum with the guy who figured out this whole process. In his opinion, he would have had no worries with putting an engine back together with cylinders that look like the one posted in these pictures after the conditioning process, i.e. it looks like it's done well enough to do what it's supposed to do.. which I found encouraging anyways. Now I just have to improve the scotch brite de-glazing process to lessen the scratches it puts in the cylinders. The rings are chrome plated so I really don't think are going to wear in all that much.. so deep scratches are bad
 
#142 · (Edited)
Hey...
Found a thread on Mercedes Benz Forums. There is a MB forum member going through almost same process we are and did his own Cylinder honing like you are trying to do. Check it out!

Note: Wife has a CLK320 and the Soft Top has to be replaced. I Was doing a search on it and while there, searched for the alusil stuff as well.

 
#143 ·
#144 ·
Also, update for today:

I took the block, crank and heads to the machine shop today.

They did a basic vacuum test on the heads while I was there and results were good. They also checked for straightness and could not find a spot off even .001", so I doubt they'll even need to re-surface them. They are going to clean everything, pull all the oil plugs, etc. out and clean all the passages. Also they'll valve seals and check valve guides. And finally they are also going to drill the holes I need to line up with my exhaust manifold on that one cylinder

On the crank it would really be fine to throw in as is, but they are going to do basically a final polish just so it's as slick as possible. The cost was low so I figure why not

On the block they are going to pull all the oil plugs, thoroughly clean it and check the deck to make sure it's straight. I asked them not to do any machining unless it was really needed. While I was there they also could not get a .001" feeler gauge under a straightedge so I think a good cleaning is all it really needs but they are going to check it more thoroughly to be sure

Overall, it looks like all the parts are in good shape. He agreed the cylinders were in great shape but was not all that familiar with Alusil, so I'll still need to do the final polishing process myself
 
#148 · (Edited)
Cool, make sure he takes a look at the guides to see how worn they are or aren't--I've always read that they usually wear out and drastically reduce the life of the seals
 
#150 · (Edited)
Looking at your new pistons made me laugh.

Rebuilt my first four cylinder MC engine back in the 70's (remember the Honda 750 K1? changed the whole MC business). New rings and pistons was the job.

Anyway, I reassembled the entire head, did (almost) everything right, wrestled it all back together into the chassis, added carbs, coil, plugs, oil blah blah...and she started up on the first kick.

I'm grinning like an idiot, then I notice that #4 is blowing smoke like a mother.

Ah, crap....

Yeah, you know it. Late one night I had very carefully lined up the ring gaps in #4 instead of setting them 120 deg out. Had to strip it all the way back down cause I was tired and screwed up the very simple ring setup....

Moral: instead of "measure twice, cut once", it's "think twice, wrench once".
 
#151 ·
Looking at your new pistons made me laugh.

Rebuilt my first four cylinder MC engine back in the 70's (remember the Honda 750 K1? changed the whole MC business). New rings and pistons was the job.

Anyway, I reassembled the entire head, did (almost) everything right, wrestled it all back together into the chassis, added carbs, coil, plugs, oil blah blah...and she started up on the first kick.

I'm grinning like an idiot, then I notice that #4 is blowing smoke like a mother.

Ah, crap....

Yeah, you know it. Late one night I had very carefully lined up the ring gaps in #4 instead of setting them 120 deg out. Had to strip it all the way back down cause I was tired and screwed up the very simple ring setup....

Moral: instead of "measure twice, cut once", it's "think twice, wrench once".
I actually just made my self a simple "build" sheet just to hopefully not do something like that.. just has places to fill in the torques, clearances, etc. for all the bearings, final torque numbers on the torque to yield bolts, etc. Mainly just so I don't forget one (I have a snap on techangle torque wrench that does torque angles and gives a final torque reading once you get to the prescribed angle.. pretty cool)

Anyways.. out of sheer boredom, I decided to try throwing one of the busted up pistons into a can of "chem-dip" by Berryman. I had scrubbed on this piston with a scotch brite pad for a good hour prior to this and couldn't touch this carbon.. I'm pretty sure smelling this stuff will give your kids cancer, it's nasty.

Here is where I started. The little bits of carbon missing on some of the edges is from all the scrubbing I had done before.. barely touched it


Closer up. I scratched it off in a few places with a screw driver




This is after about an hour in the stuff..


About an hour.. looks like it's eating the aluminum or coating or something.. def not using this for the real deal



And the rest are after a full 24 hours of soaking.. carbon is GONE. I didn't scrub or even touch these things. It was just gone when I pulled them out.. along with some aluminum it looks like, lol




In other news, my block of aluminum to make my hone holder thing came in. $20, can't complain
 
#152 · (Edited)
Earlier update than normal for today, it was just too cold to do much. I mainly worked on making the felt honing pad holder thing out of that aluminum bar..

Drilling some holes




All drilled.. the two on the left are a little too far to the right, I ended up having to drill two with a slightly larger bit to compensate for them being in the wrong place




It was below freezing here for a while today.. quite cold. This thing helped a lot though




Ta-da




Except two little tabs still don't fit right




Now it's flush


Both..




Changing gears, here is a cylinder that has NOT been polished


Same


Same


And here is after polishing--THIS was done with the old method of wrapping felt around a 3 arm hone, same as last weekend


Same


Two furthest away are not done--closest one is w/felt & old 3 arm hone


Same


Same
 
#153 · (Edited)
Now on this one I decided to try the new aluminum block + sunnen felt pads. I did not come up with a way to connect it to a drill today, so I was just turning it by hand.. overall I found that the results of just slowly turning it around by hand for a minute or two did MORE than the felt + 3 arm hone method. I can only imagine that with it actually connected to a drill that results will be much better than I have been getting


Same


Same--by hand I just spun the real felt pads it around in the cylinders w/the aluminum holder I made today. Really surprised at the results


Same


Another shot of the holder




I didn't have the right size drill bit/tap on hand, so I had to order those. Will finish it up after I get those. I found a flexible piece off an old hone that I am going to screw in here..


Here are the pads after I had used them + tried to wash them off some


And here are the parts that came in this week.. missing one bearing and I'll be good to go


Parts


Parts


Parts


Good lawd, more parts
 
#154 · (Edited)
Picked the block/heads/crank up from the machine shop yesterday. They found that the heads had already had about .008" taken off. The only oversize headgasket is about .012" thicker than stock, so they went ahead and took about .003" more off to make everything work out.

An engine in the back of a Honda Accord.. lol


Block--you can see even through the bag it's a whole lot cleaner!


One of the heads










On the crank they just did a light light polish--it's slick for sure!






Pretty pretty!


Rear of the crank




New valve seals




Sealing surface. The marks are just oil




Intake runners




Exhaust side--SAS cleaned out








 
#157 · (Edited)
Question for you guys. I am torn between which set of heads to use.

The "old" set has 207K miles on them and the intermediate levers are out of tolerance causing a cold start up misfire in cold weather (there is an SIB out for it). They need new seals and maybe guides also. I know they work though, even if they aren't perfect. Obviously changing seals is no big deal if that's all they really need.

The "new" set someone has obviously gone through before I got a hold of them. They supposedly have about 75K on them. No idea if rocker arms classes are in correct place (may not matter though) and one of the intake cams has obvious signs of the cam gear coming loose and putting some score marks into the cam. Doubt it will matter, just another sign someone didn't know what they were doing. Machine shop has installed new seals, guides were checked/good, resurfaced them and cleaned them. They are confident everything is fine that they can check.. no idea on valvetronics hardware though. Someone also tried to paint them at one point (yes, paint) and that would not come off so some of the sealing surfaces have a rougher texture than normal (only on valve cover side, combustion chamber side was resurfaced/clean to begin with). No clue if they will seal better or worse because of that.

The old ones would be the safer bet, since I know what I've got, but the new ones are likely in better shape in the end, I'm just not 100% sure. I also thought about replacing the intermediate levers on the old ones and going with them, but that's another $700 on a project already way over budget. Plus seals, resurfacing and cleaning costs. New and old heads are all different classes on the intermediate levers as well so I can't swap anything around there. I have also read that new intermediate levers without changing the eccentric shafts will only last a short time.. and those are $600+ a PIECE.

The new heads are already back from the machine shop and thicker head gaskets have been ordered.. but another week or two to have the machine shop go through the old ones isn't out of the question if that's my best option.

Thoughts? Maybe I'm just overthinking it and should just go with what I have already ready. If it weren't for valvetronics then it wouldn't even be a question..
 
#158 ·
#159 ·
Have you contacted Hitchiner Manufacturing about the lever arm and finger follower tolerance? I also read someplace about they changed from cast to stamped lever arms and that they are available aftermarket. The more you know about them the better you'll feel about your decision.

http://www.hitchiner.com
http://www.sfsa.org/tutorials/leverarm/BMWValve.pdf
I have not--thanks for reminding me though. Every time I remember needing to do that I'd get sidetracked

Aftermarket sounds a lot cheaper. That would be a plus for sure! I can't find anything on them though
 
#160 · (Edited)
Try this company and see if they are offered for the N62;

http://www.schaeffler.com/content.s...ems/product_range/mot3300/mot3330/mot3330.jsp

Schaeffler Group USA Inc. · Valley City · USA · North America
5370 Wegman Drive
Valley City, OH 44280-9700
USA
Tel.
+1 800 / 274 5001
Fax
+1 330 / 273 3522
Mail address
www.schaeffler-aftermarket.us
GPS:
N 41° 15***8242; 6.4***8221;
W 81° 52***8242; 44.4***8221;
Google Maps
Automotive aftermarket distribution for a full range of LuK, INA, *** and Ruville brands throughout North America. Product groups include chassis, drivetrain and engine.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top